RCAF looks elsewhere for pilots

Jx3
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Re: RCAF looks elsewhere for pilots

Post by Jx3 »

oldtrucker wrote: The weird thing is that you can have a arts degree and it will count,
Ka-El wrote:You won't be flying fighter jets with an arts degree
Yes, you absolutely 100% can. I know many CF-18 drivers that have arts degrees, just as I know Twin Otter and Griffon pilot's with engineering degrees. About the only exception I am aware of is pilots that wish to become experimental test flight engineers must have an aeronautical engineering masters degree.

Pilots, as all officers, require a degree, it does not matter what the degree is, just has to be a degree. Many officer classifications in the CAF require a degree specific to their "trade" (so to speak), pilots are not one of them. What their degrees are in does not determine which path pilots are streamed into (either fast jet, multi-engine or rotary wing). Student pilots choose their preference of which stream they would like but the determining factors are in performance, ability, aptitude and first and foremost, the specific needs of the RCAF at the time.

Edit to add: In my statement that "it does not matter what the degree is, just has to be a degree" I may have over simplified things a little too much.

When speaking of arts degrees I was referring to the arts degrees offered at the Royal Military College of Canada, namely:
- English, Culture, and Communication
- French, Literature and Culture
- History
- Economics
- Political Science
- Psychology
- Business Administration
- Military and Strategic Studies

I am not sure a degree in gender studies, medieval pottery or underwater basket weaving would cut it.
Last edited by Jx3 on May 14th, 2021, 8:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
Jx3
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Re: RCAF looks elsewhere for pilots

Post by Jx3 »

Even Steven wrote:Meinzinger says only about 15 have made the jump.
oldtrucker wrote:There are probably 15 commercial pilots within 5 blocks of me, I should have said I could find 10 by Tuesday just in one corner of Rutland, never mind the rest of Canada.
I know guys that would drop everything for a chance to fly their equip in a heartbeat.
I call BS.

If you know guys that would "drop everything for a chance to fly their equip in a heartbeat", I have to ask the obvious question.... what's stopping them from applying? The RCAF has been screaming for pilots for many years so what is stopping these guys you know from applying?

https://forces.ca/en/
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OKkayak
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Re: RCAF looks elsewhere for pilots

Post by OKkayak »

I have a degree, a degree to check your fine :cuss: out

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oldtrucker
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Re: RCAF looks elsewhere for pilots

Post by oldtrucker »

Jx3 wrote:
Even Steven wrote:Meinzinger says only about 15 have made the jump.
oldtrucker wrote:There are probably 15 commercial pilots within 5 blocks of me, I should have said I could find 10 by Tuesday just in one corner of Rutland, never mind the rest of Canada.
I know guys that would drop everything for a chance to fly their equip in a heartbeat.
I call BS.

If you know guys that would "drop everything for a chance to fly their equip in a heartbeat", I have to ask the obvious question.... what's stopping them from applying? The RCAF has been screaming for pilots for many years so what is stopping these guys you know from applying?

https://forces.ca/en/
Lack of a uni degree? Go ask any King air or Navajo or(whatever...insert general aviation aircraft here) pilot barely making rent if they would switch to the RCAF...Hell, I would if I could... I haven't touched a airplane in over 10 years and I'm too old anyway now. Interesting that okayak posed that pic....That movie - its influence flooded the military with applicants from 1986 onwards for many years.
Some may view my politically incorrect opinions as harsh and may be offended by them. Some think political correctness will be our undoing.
MCB
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Re: RCAF looks elsewhere for pilots

Post by MCB »

Typical business tactic.

Why train when you can bleep and complain that you can't find experienced people yet aren't willing to train them?
Jx3
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Re: RCAF looks elsewhere for pilots

Post by Jx3 »

Jx3 wrote:
Even Steven wrote:Meinzinger says only about 15 have made the jump.
oldtrucker wrote:There are probably 15 commercial pilots within 5 blocks of me, I should have said I could find 10 by Tuesday just in one corner of Rutland, never mind the rest of Canada.
I know guys that would drop everything for a chance to fly their equip in a heartbeat.
I call BS.

If you know guys that would "drop everything for a chance to fly their equip in a heartbeat", I have to ask the obvious question.... what's stopping them from applying? The RCAF has been screaming for pilots for many years so what is stopping these guys you know from applying?

https://forces.ca/en/
oldtrucker wrote:Lack of a uni degree? Go ask any King air or Navajo or(whatever...insert general aviation aircraft here) pilot barely making rent if they would switch to the RCAF...
Since you were the one making the claim, how about you go ask any King Air or Navajo pilot why they would let a "lack of a uni degree" stop them from applying to be a pilot in the RCAF?

Surely you must know that people that don't already have a degree can enroll under the Regular Officer Training Plan and the Canadian Armed Forces will pay eligible candidates to earn a 4-year university degree at the Royal Military College of Canada in Kingston, ON (or the Collège militaire royal du Canada in St Jean, PQ) or in some instances, at civilian universities. All tuition is 100% subsidized and candidates are paid full time and provided rations and quarters (deducted from pay). Pilot training commences upon earning a degree.

For anyone that already has a recognized degree they can enroll under the Direct Entry Training Plan and proceed straight to pilot training following completion of the 12-week Basic Military Officer training course in St Jean, PQ.

These aren't some sort of secret programs where you have to know someone that knows someone, they are open to anyone that meets the minimum requirements. In reality, I suspect that anyone that is truly interested in joining the RCAF as a pilot would already know all of this as all of the information is literally just a few mouse clicks away.
Jx3
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Re: RCAF looks elsewhere for pilots

Post by Jx3 »

MCB wrote:Typical business tactic.

Why train when you can bleep and complain that you can't find experienced people yet aren't willing to train them?
Aren't willing to train? This makes zero sense. In what way are the Canadian Armed Forces unwilling to train pilots? Please explain.

As a civilian contractor (retired RCAF) currently directly involved with training RCAF aircrew (pilots, sensor operators and flight engineers) I'm interested to hear how exactly we are unwilling to train.
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oldtrucker
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Re: RCAF looks elsewhere for pilots

Post by oldtrucker »

Like I said, a 4 year degree that maybe people don't want to do in the military -or out. Like okayak, said about N American and uni degrees and like I mentioned earlier....what does a arts degree or a economics degree have to do with aviation? Maybe the military wants to see the persons dedication to their education...My point is only that if someone has dropped the $80 or 100K on CPL/Multi/IFR and the time-say a year or so to do that training, why is that not a show of dedication and interest enough in the sport to be considered.
I'm saying this from personal experience with myself and the guys I knew back in the day. A uni degree is expensive $$$ and time and so is the commercial flight training....probably can't afford both. Yes, I did look into it when I was young. I didn't have a degree,but had the cpl/multi/ifr- If I remember correctly even the people that had near perfect hi skool marks were not wanted as the CAF applicant inbox was overflowing from 1986 onwards.
And, in this case like I mentioned earlier, the RCAF is looking for high time very experienced aviators and sometimes type specific. You probably can't find anyone with 5000hrs C-130 time at Jim and Joes Charter service that operates Navajos and Caravans.
Of course myself and the guys I knew back in the day would jump at the chance at the RCAF....back then in the 80's and 90's,we worked for free....anything to build hours/go flying....companies knew they didn't have to pay anything as there were 100 guys willing to do it for free.
Some may view my politically incorrect opinions as harsh and may be offended by them. Some think political correctness will be our undoing.
Jx3
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Re: RCAF looks elsewhere for pilots

Post by Jx3 »

oldtrucker wrote:Like I said, a 4 year degree that maybe people don't want to do in the military -or out. Like okayak, said about N American and uni degrees and like I mentioned earlier....what does a arts degree or a economics degree have to do with aviation? Maybe the military wants to see the persons dedication to their education...My point is only that if someone has dropped the $80 or 100K on CPL/Multi/IFR and the time-say a year or so to do that training, why is that not a show of dedication and interest enough in the sport to be considered.
I'm saying this from personal experience with myself and the guys I knew back in the day. A uni degree is expensive $$$ and time and so is the commercial flight training....probably can't afford both. Yes, I did look into it when I was young. I didn't have a degree,but had the cpl/multi/ifr- If I remember correctly even the people that had near perfect hi skool marks were not wanted as the CAF applicant inbox was overflowing from 1986 onwards.
And, in this case like I mentioned earlier, the RCAF is looking for high time very experienced aviators and sometimes type specific. You probably can't find anyone with 5000hrs C-130 time at Jim and Joes Charter service that operates Navajos and Caravans.
Of course myself and the guys I knew back in the day would jump at the chance at the RCAF....back then in the 80's and 90's,we worked for free....anything to build hours/go flying....companies knew they didn't have to pay anything as there were 100 guys willing to do it for free.
Oh, gotcha. So your argument isn't that all these people you know CAN'T join the RCAF to be pilot's for some reason, its that they just don't like the requirements/prerequisites of the Canadian Armed Forces.

What does a university degree have to do with aviation? Nothing. Not a damn thing. Pilots in the RCAF however are more than just airplane drivers, they are also officers in the Canadian Armed Forces and the Government of Canada has decided that all commissioned officers shall have a university degree.
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oldtrucker
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Re: RCAF looks elsewhere for pilots

Post by oldtrucker »

Jx3 wrote:So your argument isn't that all these people you know CAN'T join the RCAF to be pilot's for some reason, its that they just don't like the requirements/prerequisites of the Canadian Armed Forces.
No....I dont have a argument. As I posted earlier in the thread- they are looking for hi time and sometimes type specific which cannot be found in Canada and must be sourced internationally
Some may view my politically incorrect opinions as harsh and may be offended by them. Some think political correctness will be our undoing.
Even Steven
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Re: RCAF looks elsewhere for pilots

Post by Even Steven »

TFW pilots inbound!

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