Graves at Residential schools

[Fancy]

Expect a report by mid June.

To the band’s knowledge, these are undocumented deaths, but it is working with the Royal B.C. Museum and other groups to determine if there are any existing records of them. The band is also working with the BC Coroners Service and engaging the home communities of students who attended the school to determine if any historical missing persons may be a match.

There are documented deaths of students at the school. The National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation at the University of Manitoba has on its website a list of the names of 52 children who died while at the Kamloops Indian Residential School. The list of deaths range in dates from 1900 to 1971 and are part of the centre’s Missing Children Project. The children’s names are not accompanied by their ages.

Would be interested to know if a cause of death was listed on those identified.
https://www.kamloopsthisweek.com/news/m ... 1.24324498

[techrtr]

Calm down - it hasn't even been proven that those are graves or that they contain human remains. GPR results are easily misinterpreted. Until they are excavated, no one will know for sure if there are graves at the site, and how many there are.

215 has been reported. Highly unlikely that 215 animals were buried there. Does not matter if it was 200 or 250, someone knows who was buried there and when. The catholics priests were very meticulous about death records, and likely had a register of who attended their school, and what was their outcome, graduation, return home, moved to another school. It would be strange if they did not. Someone took roll call on these children every day until they died. So if the records are not forthcoming, why has this taken decades to acheive? It is not an "assumption" that the Catholic church was keeping these records to themselves, and that they were requested for many years. So if those records "disappeared" or just were not turned over, they must have an explanation for that.
When you take someone's child by force, you have a duty to know who they are, where they are, and whether or not they died. I would be interested in the laws around burial, because generally you can't just pop little bodies in the ground and call it a day.

Didn't say they could be animals. Blips could be caused by lots of things. Again, until there are excavations, don't jump to conclusions.

[Fancy]

... The catholics priests were very meticulous about death records, and likely had a register of who attended their school, and what was their outcome, graduation, return home, moved to another school. It would be strange if they did not. Someone took roll call on these children every day until they died. So if the records are not forthcoming, why has this taken decades to acheive? It is not an "assumption" that the Catholic church was keeping these records to themselves, and that they were requested for many years. So if those records "disappeared" or just were not turned over, they must have an explanation for that.
When you take someone's child by force, you have a duty to know who they are, where they are, and whether or not they died. I would be interested in the laws around burial, because generally you can't just pop little bodies in the ground and call it a day.

It's been stated files were destroyed so getting those meticulous death records may not be possible now.

[Fancy]

Have been advised of the possibility that GPR isn't as reliable as one might think but a step in providing an area to search anyway. An explanation here:

While GPR is one of the most effective forms of non-destructive testing, it is not 100% accurate. The variables we have discussed here such as the conditions and material of the scanning area, along with the person using the equipment all affect the accuracy.

https://www.xradar.ca/blog/common-misco ... 20accuracy.

[Fancy]

More background:

Gary Williams's aunt attended the Kamloops Indian Residential School in British Columbia with her brother who died there, but the family was never told where he was buried.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/new- ... -1.2487015

As noted earlier there may be a good possibility of reuniting remains of those that may be buried to families left behind.

[techrtr]

If people have been looking into this since the early 2000's, what's the hold up? It's not like millions of square miles have to be scoured for graves. It's a fairly small area that could easily be sampled. As well, where's this 215 number coming from - the ground penetrating radar results? Either someone is guessing or they know a lot more than they're letting on.

Residential schools are a hot button issue at the moment. If you've been watching the news at all this is the worst atrocity that ever happened in Canadian history. Yet, there is no evidence how many bodies, if any, are buried at the Kamloops school site (unless someone already knows and is hiding the truth until the right moment).

[sherashera]

If people have been looking into this since the early 2000's, what's the hold up? It's not like millions of square miles have to be scoured for graves. It's a fairly small area that could easily be sampled. As well, where's this 215 number coming from - the ground penetrating radar results? Either someone is guessing or they know a lot more than they're letting on.

Residential schools are a hot button issue at the moment. If you've been watching the news at all this is the worst atrocity that ever happened in Canadian history. Yet, there is no evidence how many bodies, if any, are buried at the Kamloops school site (unless someone already knows and is hiding the truth until the right moment).

That's what I've been wondering as well, if it's not a new issue I'm not sure why all of the sudden it's coming out? Doesn't really seem to add up. I also wonder if the parents of these children were notified of the deaths when it happened? Especially if the deaths were due to diseases?

[Fancy]

That's what I've been wondering as well, if it's not a new issue I'm not sure why all of the sudden it's coming out? Doesn't really seem to add up. I also wonder if the parents of these children were notified of the deaths when it happened? Especially if the deaths were due to diseases?

When families aren't told where their children are buried - kinda makes you go "hmmmm" now. It's not all of a sudden but comes down to the thousands upon thousands of documents that needed to be reviewed and current technology giving them a hand. I suspect funding is a huge concern.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/aborig ... -1.1318150
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/reside ... -1.1198687
When one starts researching the news items alone keep going further and further back in time.

[Silverstarqueen]

If people have been looking into this since the early 2000's, what's the hold up? It's not like millions of square miles have to be scoured for graves. It's a fairly small area that could easily be sampled. As well, where's this 215 number coming from - the ground penetrating radar results? Either someone is guessing or they know a lot more than they're letting on.

Residential schools are a hot button issue at the moment. If you've been watching the news at all this is the worst atrocity that ever happened in Canadian history. Yet, there is no evidence how many bodies, if any, are buried at the Kamloops school site (unless someone already knows and is hiding the truth until the right moment).

That's what I've been wondering as well, if it's not a new issue I'm not sure why all of the sudden it's coming out? Doesn't really seem to add up. I also wonder if the parents of these children were notified of the deaths when it happened? Especially if the deaths were due to diseases?

The money to investigate the deaths of children in residential schools was allocated since 2015, in this case the province finally provided some funding. Of course the whole breadth of information is not being released yet, I seriously doubt that these would be reported as the remains of children and an approximate number, if they did not believe them to be the remains of children. What is not known is, who were they, what was the cause of death, was it from abuse or neglect? Why weren't the parents notified? and no there were not, because only 52 deaths had been previously disclosed as occuring at that site. The bands would not be calling for full disclosure of records, if the identity of these remains had already been disclosed to the families. Regardless of the cause of death (which is ultimately important), these burial remains are not so far on the record. There are also rumours of more burials on the Kamloops school site (as well as other schools). So this is going to take quite some time to resolve. Yes, children sometimes die of accident, abuse, disease, but their families and the authorities are notified, in which case there would be a record for these burials. In this case this was not done. So no, it is not morally acceptable (probably illegal) to take someone's child forcibly, and then bury them (for whatever reasons) without authorities and families being notified. In our nice white world, that is called kidnapping and improper disposal of remains. There are laws about that.

[Fancy]

...Why weren't the parents notified? ...

Maybe they were when the parents don't know where their child is buried - possibly in the mass grave?

[stuphoto]

Have been advised of the possibility that GPR isn't as reliable as one might think but a step in providing an area to search anyway. An explanation here:

While GPR is one of the most effective forms of non-destructive testing, it is not 100% accurate. The variables we have discussed here such as the conditions and material of the scanning area, along with the person using the equipment all affect the accuracy.

https://www.xradar.ca/blog/common-misco ... 20accuracy.

The same thing can be said for any radiology equipment and probably every other machine on earth.
One x-ray technician knows exactly how to point the camera to capture pretty much any abnormalitie in 99% of their patients, where the next one may only have a 85% chance.

Personally, I do stake my own life in the hands of it's operators every winter I work up north.
They use it to measure and monitor the ice thickness and density. Since they started this process not one truck has broken through the ice.

[techrtr]

Have been advised of the possibility that GPR isn't as reliable as one might think but a step in providing an area to search anyway. An explanation here:



https://www.xradar.ca/blog/common-misco ... 20accuracy.

The same thing can be said for any radiology equipment and probably every other machine on earth.
One x-ray technician knows exactly how to point the camera to capture pretty much any abnormalitie in 99% of their patients, where the next one may only have a 85% chance.

Personally, I do stake my own life in the hands of it's operators every winter I work up north.
They use it to measure and monitor the ice thickness and density. Since they started this process not one truck has broken through the ice.

Measuring ice thickness and density is not the same as identifying what's buried in the ground.

[W105]

That's what I've been wondering as well, if it's not a new issue I'm not sure why all of the sudden it's coming out? Doesn't really seem to add up. I also wonder if the parents of these children were notified of the deaths when it happened? Especially if the deaths were due to diseases?

The money to investigate the deaths of children in residential schools was allocated since 2015, in this case the province finally provided some funding. Of course the whole breadth of information is not being released yet, I seriously doubt that these would be reported as the remains of children and an approximate number, if they did not believe them to be the remains of children. What is not known is, who were they, what was the cause of death, was it from abuse or neglect? Why weren't the parents notified? and no there were not, because only 52 deaths had been previously disclosed as occuring at that site. The bands would not be calling for full disclosure of records, if the identity of these remains had already been disclosed to the families. Regardless of the cause of death (which is ultimately important), these burial remains are not so far on the record. There are also rumours of more burials on the Kamloops school site (as well as other schools). So this is going to take quite some time to resolve. Yes, children sometimes die of accident, abuse, disease, but their families and the authorities are notified, in which case there would be a record for these burials. In this case this was not done. So no, it is not morally acceptable (probably illegal) to take someone's child forcibly, and then bury them (for whatever reasons) without authorities and families being notified. In our nice white world, that is called kidnapping and improper disposal of remains. There are laws about that.

Silverstarqueen..I very much appreciate your comments in this thread...

[kgcayenne]

I see people are still actively gaslighting all who report these atrocities and throwing doubt around to absolve themselves from acknowledging what went on.

What happened is not the fault of those of subsequent colonial descendants, but shoving it under the rug is being complicit in it---essentially, one is part of the problem if one is failing to acknowledge and accept that these things occurred.

Acknowledging what went on IS part of progress.

This happened.
It is definitely uncomfortable to acknowledge.
It is embarrassing that this took place.
Don't embarrass your great grandchildren.
Be better now.

[Fancy]

I really don't see "gaslighting" regarding this news item and no one is sweeping it under the rug at all. Getting to the bottom of what happened means digging up the ground and investigating each and every remains that are found - that's all that really matters right now.