Graves at Residential schools

rustled
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by rustled »

Fancy wrote: Jun 1st, 2021, 11:15 am There will certainly be far reaching consequences - like this one:
UBC reviewing honours given to Catholic bishop and former Kamloops residential school principal
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6047229

it would be prudent to accelerate the exhumation and provide an explanation why authorities think there are that many children. Seems too precise a number to completely depend on the equipment used.
Some cultures strongly object to exhumation. They probably won't accelerate without proper consultation.
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marooned
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by marooned »

Just listened to an episode of The Decibel - Globe and Mail podcast - discussing this discovery, and there was mention that there wasn't even a requirement to document deaths until possibly 1923 (I could have the year wrong).

So it's possible that schools (not just the Church at the time) couldn't even provide documentation - I'd imagine documentation doesn't exist.

Thank goodness for oral histories.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/podcasts/the-decibel/
rustled
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by rustled »

marooned wrote: Jun 1st, 2021, 11:22 am Just listened to an episode of The Decibel - Globe and Mail podcast - discussing this discovery, and there was mention that there wasn't even a requirement to document deaths until possibly 1923 (I could have the year wrong).

So it's possible that schools (not just the Church at the time) couldn't even provide documentation - I'd imagine documentation doesn't exist.

Thank goodness for oral histories.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/podcasts/the-decibel/
The Catholic church was always very strict about their records, though. (One of the reasons it's easier to research early Canadian ancestors who were Catholic is because their clergy were required to send a duplicate of all records back to France - unlike other churches whose records were less protected against loss due to fire, mold, flood, etc.) So even if the government of the day didn't require the residential schools to document earlier deaths, I would surprised if the Catholic residential schools were not keeping a written record at the time of death and interment.

Edited to add: Just listening - 11:42 in the recording - "it wasn't until 1935, in the Indian Act, that an article was passed that outlined how a death of a child should be recorded at a school. Until then there wasn't even a formal process to document the loss of a child. And in the records that we do hold of lost children, 49% of those records don't identify the cause of death..."
Last edited by rustled on Jun 1st, 2021, 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ferri
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by ferri »

Burials proof of genocide?
Ryerson University law professor Pamela Palmater says the United Nations' convention on the prevention and punishment of the crime of genocide applies to Canada's actions.

She says the convention states that a genocide is committed when members of a group are killed, subjected to serious physical or mental harm, put in conditions to destroy them, become victims to measures intended to prevent births or have their children forcibly transferred to another group.

She says Canada only needs to be guilty of one of the five acts in the UN convention, with the intention to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, to commit genocide under international law.
More here:
https://www.castanet.net/news/Kamloops/ ... say#335615
“Weak people revenge. Strong people forgive. Intelligent people ignore.”
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marooned
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by marooned »

rustled wrote: Jun 1st, 2021, 11:35 am The Catholic church was always very strict about their records, though.
Possibly only records of their own.
rustled wrote: Jun 1st, 2021, 11:35 am Edited to add: Just listening - 11:42 in the recording - "it wasn't until 1935, in the Indian Act, that an article was passed that outlined how a death of a child should be recorded at a school. Until then there wasn't even a formal process to document the loss of a child. And in the records that we do hold of lost children, 49% of those records don't identify the cause of death..."
Thanks for listening to the podcast, and the correction on the year.
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by SAILINGONE »

Those driving the "narrative" (PMO & the far left) use the release of such reports to justify their agenda, without the knowledge of any facts.
Silverstarqueen
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by Silverstarqueen »

I'm pretty sure the priests were required to baptize everone in sight, can't have souls not baptized. So they would have known who was who (given new christian names). The might not have kept track of where children came from originally. Still does not excuse what they did, since they didn't do that to the settlers' children, it was racism and an obvious attempt to stamp out the culture, plus a lot of neglect and cruelty.
The catholic church also had a hand in how the Indian Act operated wrt to the children.
The minister of indian affairs had his own agenda as far as "assimilating" the indigenous, until "there were no Indians remaining".
"t 1907 is both the year of Elizabeth's
death and the year that the Department of Indian Affairs received
the "Bryce Report" on the alarming rates of children suffering from
disease and dying in the Indian Residential School system. In this
report, Dr. Peter Henderson Bryce, Canada’s Chief Medical Health
Officer, documented the appalling health conditions within
residential schools and outlined clear recommendations to prevent
unnecessary student deaths. Duncan Campbell Scott understood the
rate of preventable student deaths in residential schools, but
decided to disregard Dr. Bryce's 1907 recommendations and
instead continued on with the system of assimilation that had been
put in place (Milloy, 1999). It does not seem that Duncan Campbell
Scott was able to make the connection between his despair over his
own daughter's death and the crisis of disease and death among
Aboriginal children in the schools that he was responsible for
overseeing."
Last edited by Silverstarqueen on Jun 1st, 2021, 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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oldtrucker
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by oldtrucker »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Jun 1st, 2021, 2:11 pm The catholic church also had a hand in how the Indian Act operated wrt to the children.
The Catholic church had their tentacles in everything up until not that long ago.
I have family members that are Catholic....they aren't all that nice to any kids I noticed the hard way.
Some may view my politically incorrect opinions as harsh and may be offended by them. Some think political correctness will be our undoing.
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marooned
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by marooned »

SAILINGONE wrote: Jun 1st, 2021, 1:56 pm Those driving the "narrative" (PMO & the far left) use the release of such reports to justify their agenda, without the knowledge of any facts.
That's right. Unlike your fully substantiated statement, the PMO (I guess that's Harper's and Trudeau's PMO's) have only created responses and policies around such flimsy facts as those uncovered by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, multiple historical (oral and other) accounts of how such schools operated, and, well, sciences such as archaeology and forensics.
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ferri
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by ferri »

I've read several accounts by people that were actually at one of these "schools". They all seem to have a lot in common.

Survivor calling for action

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kamloops/ ... ion#335649
“Weak people revenge. Strong people forgive. Intelligent people ignore.”
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SAILINGONE
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by SAILINGONE »

marooned wrote: Jun 1st, 2021, 3:27 pm
SAILINGONE wrote: Jun 1st, 2021, 1:56 pm Those driving the "narrative" (PMO & the far left) use the release of such reports to justify their agenda, without the knowledge of any facts.
That's right. Unlike your fully substantiated statement, the PMO (I guess that's Harper's and Trudeau's PMO's) have only created responses and policies around such flimsy facts as those uncovered by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, multiple historical (oral and other) accounts of how such schools operated, and, well, sciences such as archaeology and forensics.
Most likely the majority of the "cancel culture" barely breaks twenty and has never left the "security" of the concrete & asphalt jungle where they are totally dependent on the wealth created by those they hate, yet are experts at every issue that are smartly created by the manipulating very few ultra privileged elite & 0.0000001% ers, who want power just for them. You do not realize that you are just a cheap means to their goal of control. However if I have errored please prove me wrong and pick up your teepee, canoe and fire starter kit and live of the land like it was here 500 years ago.
sherashera
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by sherashera »

SAILINGONE wrote: Jun 1st, 2021, 5:00 pm
marooned wrote: Jun 1st, 2021, 3:27 pm
That's right. Unlike your fully substantiated statement, the PMO (I guess that's Harper's and Trudeau's PMO's) have only created responses and policies around such flimsy facts as those uncovered by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, multiple historical (oral and other) accounts of how such schools operated, and, well, sciences such as archaeology and forensics.
Most likely the majority of the "cancel culture" barely breaks twenty and has never left the "security" of the concrete & asphalt jungle where they are totally dependent on the wealth created by those they hate, yet are experts at every issue that are smartly created by the manipulating very few ultra privileged elite & 0.0000001% ers, who want power just for them. You do not realize that you are just a cheap means to their goal of control. However if I have errored please prove me wrong and pick up your teepee, canoe and fire starter kit and live of the land like it was here 500 years ago.
In the same breath, they demand actions and are more than happy to start taking compensation for something that didn't happen to them directly. You know the dear White people memes are starting up again on facebook, but I want you to give me money now is perfectly fine. Yeah right. If the band leaders knew about this 20 something years ago, not sure why it's being brought up now. Their band leaders can pay for it, ohhhhhh wait, never mind.
My word, doesn't the year fly by? One minute its Come All Yea Faithful, the next your flat on your back in the sand. Its hard to tell which one enjoys the most.
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by Silverstarqueen »

Some of these abused children, now adults, were too traumatized and shameful to tell their story before this.
I believe these stories because I saw "Abuse light" in Catholic schools. Where little Grade Ones were not allowed to go the bathroom if they had to go during class. Then when the inevitable happened, and they wet their pants, would have their pants pulled down in front of class and be beaten with a ruler.
So the level of abuse on those residential kids, taken from their families, separated from siblings, punished for even speaking to them, countless other abuses. It's all true.
I hope more will speak out and be received with love and have a chance to heal, even if it was 50 years ago, the wounds are still there. Carrying this trauma alone for so long, is just a continuation of the torture.
https://www.castanet.net/news/Kamloops/ ... -her-story
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damama55
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We Should ALL Wear Orange

Post by damama55 »

I am not Indigenous, but my heart breaks every time I hear of the 215 children that were murdered in Kamloops!!
When I was out and about today, I saw quite a few people wearing orange. I myself wore it, too.
Please, wear orange to show we are in FULL support of a FULL investigation of all Residential Schools grounds.
As everyone I have spoken to, this had been going on for many years and no attention was paid to what the children were saying.
To ALL survivors, our hearts break for the pain we hear in your voices and see in your tears.
It is time for governments to stop promising, and act on what needs to be implemented.
Talk is cheap.... action MUST be taken.
Please, be strong, tell your stories of the horrors you endured and reach out to family and friends and anyone who will listen. Your stories MUST be told.
Love and hugs to all of you.
May we all be a blessing in the days ahead.
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GordonH
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by GordonH »

More then likely this mass grave in Kamloops is only the first found.
The healing from this could take a very long time, healing is definitely going to be needed from everyone.
Those responsible are just bones in their graves now, church is still around and the Canadian government is also.
Acknowledgement and apology from both maybe a good starting place.
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