Graves at Residential schools

Silverstarqueen
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Re: Graves at Residential schools

Post by Silverstarqueen »

Cranbrook, 182 remains found.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/1 ... d=msedgntp
The argument that some or even many survivors lived to manage or do reasonably well in life, does not erase the great harm done to many others. What level of abuse, physical, psychological, sexual, is acceptable even if some survivors weren't abused or overcame the abuse and turned out alright?
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Re: Graves at Residential schools

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Silverstarqueen wrote: Jun 30th, 2021, 11:52 am Cranbrook, 182 remains found.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/1 ... d=msedgntp
The argument that some or even many survivors lived to manage or do reasonably well in life, does not erase the great harm done to many others. What level of abuse, physical, psychological, sexual, is acceptable even if some survivors weren't abused or overcame the abuse and turned out alright?
The answer to that apparently is..................media manipulation. We aren't told the "full truths".
daveandanne
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Re: Graves at Residential schools

Post by daveandanne »

This sad information will always come to light many, many Years later because of the silence and lack of information at the time because the bad guys will find out about it. Now the good guys finally find out but look at how long that took. And what are they going to do about it?.
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Re: Graves at Residential schools

Post by blueliner »

daveandanne wrote: Jun 30th, 2021, 1:10 pm This sad information will always come to light many, many Years later because of the silence and lack of information at the time because the bad guys will find out about it. Now the good guys finally find out but look at how long that took. And what are they going to do about it?.
These grave sites have been know about for a very long time , both by FN's and government . Just seem a bit strange how all of a sudden "they" released the information .
Mark my word every Residential School will have grave sites , just like every Orphanage will have grave sites . These discovery's will continue on for a very long time .
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Thinktank
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by Thinktank »

How to kill 50,000 Indians:
1 - in 1920 Dr Duncan Campbell Scott - the top guy in government head of Department of Indian Affairs was a real sub-human :cuss: . But after that *bleep* was gone, the government put other sub-human :cuss: in control of the Indians.
2 - Certain Catholic priests, but not all - were sub-humans. And others kept their mouths shut - they were accomplices to the crime.
3 - Food was inadequate for people at these schools - that means the money for the food was stolen by other sub-humans in the church.
4- Tuberculosis Experiments were done on the Indians. Only a sub-human would do experiments on Indians, but then - they probably thought they were doing the right thing. It's very similar to all the people giving Indian children vaccines now - some of them are sub-humans, but others think they're doing the right thing.
5 - The top guys - head of the church and government - were sub-humans.

How to correct the problem:
Like Louis Farakhan said, about the blacks in USA who make up a disproportionate amount of USA prisons - the people who stole $hundreds of billions from the blacks - the slave trade - need to pay it all back. $Hundreds of billions. GIVE THE MONEY BACK.

Now, Clarence Louie ( you all know who he is) says Indians are "over-represented" in BC prisons. Simple solution - the government can start to pay the Indians $Hundreds of millions - maybe tens of billions of dollars - pay it all back for the damage that was done. Our white government (sub-humans in the past) can start to unload truckloads of money - to the Indians - for all the damage that was done over the years. Don't say we can't do it. We can.

this might be the best video out there. watch it.



In conclusion - people are evil. Sure, some of the white people at those schools were nice, but people are evil.
All you can do is avoid these evil people in the future. The sad part - the Indians are being screwed over as we speak - by sub-humans - over and over again.

We got some comments down below - the first thing some people want to do - is to defend the crime. That's normal. Everyone on earth who ever did something evil - in human history - would defend themselves - they would lie to say they are innocent.
Wave101 wrote: May 28th, 2021, 12:04 pm Lets not jump to conclusions. The early twentieth century was rife will deadly diseases and high child mortality rates.
GordonH wrote: May 28th, 2021, 1:54 pm So it’s okay to take children away from their Families,
BC Landlord wrote: May 28th, 2021, 2:02 pm No, it's not okay. But also you can't really judge what happened centuries ago by looking through today's optics.
BC Landlord wrote: May 28th, 2021, 1:43 pm Were there abuses? ... Most likely, there were. But, we also have to look at residential schools from another perspective.... people living in Neolithic hunter-gatherer nomadic societies. Pretty much thousands of years behind. ...putting these people through schools, to catch up with the world of knowledge and to integrate them into the new world, could be also viewed as a noble effort.
BC Landlord wrote: May 28th, 2021, 12:29 pm A lot of things could be to blame for this back in the late 19th or early 20th century, especially in that area. We don't know any facts. But, exploiting this finding for political purposes is crass.
Please, Please, Please get one, two, three, four, and maybe five doses of the quickly developed most fanatically promoted dirt cheap $1.00 thing in human history - the DREADED COVID VACCINE! "It's Just Like a Drivers License"
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Fancy
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Re: Graves at Residential schools

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daveandanne wrote: Jun 30th, 2021, 1:10 pm This sad information will always come to light many, many Years later because of the silence and lack of information at the time because the bad guys will find out about it. Now the good guys finally find out but look at how long that took. And what are they going to do about it?.
The elders knew about them and are dealing with it (Cranbrook). Unfortunate that the markers would have been burned by fire and not replaced but doesn't mean anything nefarious happened.
Truths can be backed up by facts - do you have any?
Fancy this, Fancy that and by the way, T*t for Tat
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Alien Head Dude
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Re: Graves at Residential schools

Post by Alien Head Dude »

Silverstarqueen wrote: The argument that some or even many survivors lived to manage or do reasonably well in life, does not erase the great harm done to many others. What level of abuse, physical, psychological, sexual, is acceptable even if some survivors weren't abused or overcame the abuse and turned out alright?
Oh gee, you have to put it in context. Not enough data sets. We have to know that acknowledging and speaking out against these atrocities and racism in general might do more harm than good. Better wait on it.
The hard-right Cons on this board don't like anyone referencing the findings from the research
into conservative "thinking", but they sure do enjoy providing us with plenty of evidence for it.
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Re: Graves at Residential schools

Post by foenix »

Ka-El wrote: Jul 1st, 2021, 7:02 pm
Silverstarqueen wrote: The argument that some or even many survivors lived to manage or do reasonably well in life, does not erase the great harm done to many others. What level of abuse, physical, psychological, sexual, is acceptable even if some survivors weren't abused or overcame the abuse and turned out alright?
Oh gee, you have to put it in context. Not enough data sets. We have to know that acknowledging and speaking out against these atrocities and racism in general might do more harm than good. Better wait on it.
But that's only the half truth. If we want the full truth, we have to balance the good from the bad and there is a frequent tendency to look only at the negative aspect of the residential schools. Any rational person would find obsessing over negative biases over the positive experiences of the residential school is someone that is confused. My take is that we need to look at all the situations to come up with a solution.
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: Graves at Residential schools

Post by The Green Barbarian »

Ka-El wrote: Jul 1st, 2021, 7:02 pm
Oh gee, you have to put it in context. Not enough data sets. We have to know that acknowledging and speaking out against these atrocities and racism in general might do more harm than good. Better wait on it.
^^^^
Wise words. Would only that the politicians, media and race-baiters out there would listen to this wisdom, instead of boldly charging ahead with unproven allegations to score points with voters. From what I saw going out on social media yesterday, there were a lot of total lies being spread about "mass graves" (not true, these people weren't just dumped in a hole, though the media hasn't been exactly doing much to dissuade this false assumption) and that all of the children (don't even know if they all are children, could be adults too) that were found were all "murdered" (totally unproven). Even using the word "atrocity" in relation to these graves is misleading, given how little is still known.

So as you said, jumping to conclusions as some of our politicians have done, has caused far more harm than good. Cooler heads need to prevail here.
Justin Trudeau- racist, elitist, liar. What a sick piece of garbage.

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rustled
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Re: Graves at Residential schools

Post by rustled »

Ka-El wrote: Jul 1st, 2021, 7:02 pm
Silverstarqueen wrote: The argument that some or even many survivors lived to manage or do reasonably well in life, does not erase the great harm done to many others. What level of abuse, physical, psychological, sexual, is acceptable even if some survivors weren't abused or overcame the abuse and turned out alright?
Oh gee, you have to put it in context. Not enough data sets. We have to know that acknowledging and speaking out against these atrocities and racism in general might do more harm than good. Better wait on it.
Although no one's asking for data sets on this, it is helpful to understand the full truth of residential schools by looking at whatever data is readily available.

What we do know is that silencing people, ignoring available data and subverting part of the truth was a huge part of the problem with the residential schools.

There's plenty of documentation to show that the people compiling data and evidence - the people calling for improvements that would have made a significant difference in the lives of many of the children who attended residential schools - were regularly shut down by those who refused to hear about the terrible conditions and the abuses happening in too many of the residential schools. Just as today some of the discussion today is being shut down by those who refuse to hear anything other than the terrible conditions and the abuses happening in too many of the residential schools.

No good ever comes from trying to make people shut up about the truth.

So the appropriate answer to Silverstarqueen's straw man, IMO, is that no one IS saying ANY level of abuse is acceptable. Those of us insisting on context are NOT saying abuse is acceptable.

Laws to force children without day schools to attend residential schools were not considered abuse at the time, nor was corporal punishment considered abuse at the time it was used in our residential schools, nor was the punishment of children who spoke their mother tongue when they were expected to speak only English (or only French) considered abuse at the time corporal punishment was used in our residential schools. No one is saying any of these things should be considered "acceptable" today - regardless of whether or not they were considered "acceptable" at the time.

Although the horror of sexual abuse of children by the adults who should have taken care of them has never been an atrocity exclusive to First Nations children, stereotyping and prejudice led to far more of it in First Nations residential schools. IMO, no right-minded adult has ever considered the sexual abuse of children acceptable.

While there's every reason to believe too many of the adults went much too far with corporal punishment even by the standards of the times in which they occurred, there's no reason to stereotype all of the staff as evil child abusers - doing so is every bit as wrong as it was to use stereotypes about First Nations to justify what the worst among the staff were doing to the children while they were doing it.

The grave sites at residential schools were not "discovered", they are not mass graves, and they are no more grisly than any other graveyard. What is being discovered is that there are likely more graves in these graveyards, and the rest of the world is discovering what was never a secret - that the graves are not properly marked and documented. The truth is terrible enough and sad enough. Referring to "the grisly discovery of mass graves" is dishonest and unhelpful.

Silencing parts of the truth is dishonest and unhelpful. Rejecting context is dishonest and unhelpful.

Replacing one narrative of half-truths with another narrative of half-truths is no substitute for honest discussion, and of course engaging in dishonest discussion does more harm than good. IMO.
Ideology...gives evil-doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination...[it] is the social theory which helps to make his actions seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes...
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Re: Graves at Residential schools

Post by Vacancyrate »

In Clearwater it's a well known story that a white settler saved entire native villages in the area by showing them how to separate and isolate sick people. To repay him the natives allowed him to settle up the Clearwater Valley and live there, which was their hunting and fishing grounds.

Not all white people were bad back then and I wonder how many Native children actually survived because they were at a residential school and not crammed into a teepee with 20 people with the flu.

I find the way the stories are being prevented to be inflammatory. It's almost as if the news is trying to create this into an issue for the election. From 2008 to 2015 The Truth and Reconciliation Commission looked into residential schools in detail paid out millions of dollars to people and in the final report there is an entire chapter dedicated to unmarked Graves and child deaths.

This was never a surprise just rehashing Old Wounds for in my opinion political gain.
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Re: Graves at Residential schools

Post by foenix »

Vacancyrate wrote: Jul 3rd, 2021, 8:44 am In Clearwater it's a well known story that a white settler saved entire native villages in the area by showing them how to separate and isolate sick people. To repay him the natives allowed him to settle up the Clearwater Valley and live there, which was their hunting and fishing grounds.

Not all white people were bad back then and I wonder how many Native children actually survived because they were at a residential school and not crammed into a teepee with 20 people with the flu.

I find the way the stories are being prevented to be inflammatory. It's almost as if the news is trying to create this into an issue for the election. From 2008 to 2015 The Truth and Reconciliation Commission looked into residential schools in detail paid out millions of dollars to people and in the final report there is an entire chapter dedicated to unmarked Graves and child deaths.

This was never a surprise just rehashing Old Wounds for in my opinion political gain.
Removed

The residential schools are Canada's shame and we as a nation own it. It's a disgrace to deflect from that by saying......yeah but there were other good Roman priests too or that the rest of Canada didn't know anything about it. Those are just excuses and rationalizations after the fact to divert away from what really happened..........cultural genocide. Residential schools were part of that systematic eradication of a culture because of greed by the new white colonists from Europe. That's the bottom line, folks.
Last edited by Catsumi on Jul 3rd, 2021, 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Graves at Residential schools

Post by Pitapants »

OK, we own up to it.

Now what?
Vacancyrate
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Re: Graves at Residential schools

Post by Vacancyrate »

foenix wrote: Jul 3rd, 2021, 11:02 am
Removed

The residential schools are Canada's shame and we as a nation own it. It's a disgrace to deflect from that by saying......yeah but there were other good Roman priests too or that the rest of Canada didn't know anything about it. Those are just excuses and rationalizations after the fact to divert away from what really happened..........cultural genocide. Residential schools were part of that systematic eradication of a culture because of greed by the new white colonists from Europe. That's the bottom line, folks.
Collective punishment is illegal under UN law.

Nobody alive did anything to any child in a residential school.

They buried Mozart in a unmarked open pit grave. Unless you were of noble birth or very very rich you were not buried in the church graveyard, you were thrown in a pit or buried in the woods on the outside of town. History sucked for 99% of the population.

How many times do you want to bring this up? I'm old and was taught in great detail about residential schools. The Canadian Government spent 7 years holding open testimony about anyone who EVER was effected by a residential school and paid them out. My friend in school got around 200k because his Dad (not him) went to a res school in the 1960's.

On YOUR BIRTHDAY, do you refuse to celebrate it and instead hang your head in shame about the time you (insert something you regret here)? How many birthdays are you going to refuse to celebrate?

My Dad went to a Catholic school in the 50's and got the strap, humiliated, beat. He was white immigrant.

History sucks.

Time to move on.
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Re: Graves at Residential schools

Post by foenix »

Pitapants wrote: Jul 3rd, 2021, 11:20 am OK, we own up to it.

Now what?
Have you? Have we? If you think that what do you think we should do?
Last edited by foenix on Jul 3rd, 2021, 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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