The Fall of Democracy in Canada under Trudeau's Liberals

mikest2
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The Fall of Democracy in Canada under Trudeau's Liberals

Post by mikest2 »

In short, Status of Women Minister Maryam Monsef is telling O'Toole and the rest of Parliament that member's bills should not be allowed. Sorry Ms Monsef, some Canadian political parties and a large number of Canadians still believe in democracy.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/33 ... ill#335745
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Re: The Fall of Democracy in Canada under Trudeau's Liberals

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Here is a paragraph from the article....

"As the leader of the Conservative party, you have allowed this dangerous bill to move forward during an exceptionally difficult time for women," her letter reads.

What does she mean by a 'exceptionally difficult time for women' ?
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Re: The Fall of Democracy in Canada under Trudeau's Liberals

Post by mikest2 »

oldtrucker wrote: Jun 2nd, 2021, 12:15 pm Here is a paragraph from the article....

"As the leader of the Conservative party, you have allowed this dangerous bill to move forward during an exceptionally difficult time for women," her letter reads.

What does she mean by a 'exceptionally difficult time for women' ?
I think She is talking about being a female in Trudeau's government
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Re: The Fall of Democracy in Canada under Trudeau's Liberals

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oldtrucker wrote: Jun 2nd, 2021, 12:15 pm Here is a paragraph from the article....

"As the leader of the Conservative party, you have allowed this dangerous bill to move forward during an exceptionally difficult time for women," her letter reads.

What does she mean by a 'exceptionally difficult time for women' ?
Or we could ask some of the women on here.

How about it girls, are you having exceptionally difficult times compared to the men you know?
February 14, 2022. The day Democracy died in Canada.
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Re: The Fall of Democracy in Canada under Trudeau's Liberals

Post by rustled »

mikest2 wrote: Jun 2nd, 2021, 1:12 pm
oldtrucker wrote: Jun 2nd, 2021, 12:15 pm Here is a paragraph from the article....

"As the leader of the Conservative party, you have allowed this dangerous bill to move forward during an exceptionally difficult time for women," her letter reads.

What does she mean by a 'exceptionally difficult time for women' ?
I think She is talking about being a female in Trudeau's government
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Ideology...gives evil-doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination...[it] is the social theory which helps to make his actions seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes...
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Re: The Fall of Democracy in Canada under Trudeau's Liberals

Post by rustled »

bb49 wrote: Jun 2nd, 2021, 1:27 pm
oldtrucker wrote: Jun 2nd, 2021, 12:15 pm Here is a paragraph from the article....

"As the leader of the Conservative party, you have allowed this dangerous bill to move forward during an exceptionally difficult time for women," her letter reads.

What does she mean by a 'exceptionally difficult time for women' ?
Or we could ask some of the women on here.

How about it girls, are you having exceptionally difficult times compared to the men you know?
The Trudeau Liberals are doing their best to make it so. And despite their best efforts, it's still more "talking point" than reality. Guess they're not very good at that, either...
Ideology...gives evil-doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination...[it] is the social theory which helps to make his actions seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes...
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Re: The Fall of Democracy in Canada under Trudeau's Liberals

Post by hobbyguy »

Behind the rhetoric is the fact that Cathay Wagantall is a koo koo for coco puffs anti-choice theocrat. There is nothing more undemocratic than that short of the CCP.

Part of freedom of religion is freedom FROM religion, and O'Toole just doesn't get that - or doesn't care. Wagantall has no right to impose her religious beliefs on others, and her thinly disguised anti-choice bill is just the tactics these anti-democratic theocrats use to try and chip away at the rights of women.

Monsef was absolutely correct to deliberately stir up some controversy over this anti-abortion person bill.

It was a smart move by Monsef, as voters now know that the majority of the CPC does NOT stand up for the rights of women. The vote results will likely be published shortly and we will be able to see exactly which MPs do not support the rights and freedoms of women.

I am not surprised that the theocratic CPC tries to deflect away from their own attack on freedoms.
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Re: The Fall of Democracy in Canada under Trudeau's Liberals

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hobbyguy wrote: Jun 2nd, 2021, 2:18 pm There is nothing more undemocratic than that short of the CCP.
Yes, you can't make this up. The Liberals are literally telling the CPC to NOT practice democracy, and somehow, according to Liberal partisans, this makes the CPC the ones that are "undemocratic".
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Re: The Fall of Democracy in Canada under Trudeau's Liberals

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hobbyguy wrote: Jun 2nd, 2021, 2:18 pm Behind the rhetoric is the fact that Cathay Wagantall is a koo koo for coco puffs anti-choice theocrat. There is nothing more undemocratic than that short of the CCP.

Part of freedom of religion is freedom FROM religion, and O'Toole just doesn't get that - or doesn't care. Wagantall has no right to impose her religious beliefs on others, and her thinly disguised anti-choice bill is just the tactics these anti-democratic theocrats use to try and chip away at the rights of women.

Monsef was absolutely correct to deliberately stir up some controversy over this anti-abortion person bill.

It was a smart move by Monsef, as voters now know that the majority of the CPC does NOT stand up for the rights of women. The vote results will likely be published shortly and we will be able to see exactly which MPs do not support the rights and freedoms of women.

I am not surprised that the theocratic CPC tries to deflect away from their own attack on freedoms.
How delightfully precious to have a man suggest Canadian women should expect MPs to stand up for our "special" rights and freedoms - rights which he rather obviously presumes must not be the same rights conferred on us as Canadians.

News flash, hobbyguy - my rights are your rights, and vice versa. Your identity politics are ugly.

I don't need more help our MPs than you do. Nor do my daughters or granddaughters.

Your twaddle here is just the sort of condescending, patronizing drivel we heard from our grandfathers back in the 70s, before the enlightenment.

Monsef does women NO favours by turning the clock back to where people believe women need special help.
Ideology...gives evil-doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination...[it] is the social theory which helps to make his actions seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes...
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Re: The Fall of Democracy in Canada under Trudeau's Liberals

Post by mikest2 »

hobbyguy wrote: Jun 2nd, 2021, 2:18 pm Behind the rhetoric is the fact that Cathay Wagantall is a koo koo for coco puffs anti-choice theocrat. There is nothing more undemocratic than that short of the CCP.

Part of freedom of religion is freedom FROM religion, and O'Toole just doesn't get that - or doesn't care. Wagantall has no right to impose her religious beliefs on others, and her thinly disguised anti-choice bill is just the tactics these anti-democratic theocrats use to try and chip away at the rights of women.

Monsef was absolutely correct to deliberately stir up some controversy over this anti-abortion person bill.

It was a smart move by Monsef, as voters now know that the majority of the CPC does NOT stand up for the rights of women. The vote results will likely be published shortly and we will be able to see exactly which MPs do not support the rights and freedoms of women.

I am not surprised that the theocratic CPC tries to deflect away from their own attack on freedoms.
Your logic defeats me hobby, no matter what the substance of any proposed bill is, it is the parliamentary and democratic right of any MP to introduce it. Your take seems to be that Liberal think outweighs the rights of all citizens to ask for change. As much as Trudeau and his ship of fools want a dictatorship, We still live in a democracy and as such MPs have a right and obligation to do their job for their constituents.
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Re: The Fall of Democracy in Canada under Trudeau's Liberals

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Behind the rhetoric is the fact that Mary Monseff is a koo koo for coco puffs anti-democratic Liberal lunatic. There is nothing more undemocratic than that short of the Liberals.

Part of freedom of religion is freedom FROM religion, and Trudeau and Monsef just doesn't get that - or doesn't care. Monsef has no right to impose her religious beliefs on others, and her thinly disguised anti-democratic bent is just the tactics these anti-democratic Liberal-lovers use to try and chip away at the rights of women.

Monsef was absolutely incorrect to deliberately stir up some controversy over this brilliantly conceived bill.

It was a dumb move by Monsef, as voters now know that the majority of the Liberals does NOT stand up for the rights of women. The vote results will likely be published shortly and we will be able to see exactly which MPs do not support the rights and freedoms of women.

I am not surprised that the anti-democratic Liberals tried to deflect away from their own attack on freedoms.
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Re: The Fall of Democracy in Canada under Trudeau's Liberals

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Re: The Fall of Democracy in Canada under Trudeau's Liberals

Post by hobbyguy »

mikest2 wrote: Jun 2nd, 2021, 3:09 pm
hobbyguy wrote: Jun 2nd, 2021, 2:18 pm Behind the rhetoric is the fact that Cathay Wagantall is a koo koo for coco puffs anti-choice theocrat. There is nothing more undemocratic than that short of the CCP.

Part of freedom of religion is freedom FROM religion, and O'Toole just doesn't get that - or doesn't care. Wagantall has no right to impose her religious beliefs on others, and her thinly disguised anti-choice bill is just the tactics these anti-democratic theocrats use to try and chip away at the rights of women.

Monsef was absolutely correct to deliberately stir up some controversy over this anti-abortion person bill.

It was a smart move by Monsef, as voters now know that the majority of the CPC does NOT stand up for the rights of women. The vote results will likely be published shortly and we will be able to see exactly which MPs do not support the rights and freedoms of women.

I am not surprised that the theocratic CPC tries to deflect away from their own attack on freedoms.
Your logic defeats me hobby, no matter what the substance of any proposed bill is, it is the parliamentary and democratic right of any MP to introduce it. Your take seems to be that Liberal think outweighs the rights of all citizens to ask for change. As much as Trudeau and his ship of fools want a dictatorship, We still live in a democracy and as such MPs have a right and obligation to do their job for their constituents.
The reality is simple. Cathay Wagantall was trying to attack the rights and freedoms of Canadian women.

O'Toole whips a lot of votes, but chose not to whip this one. That's what Monsef was asking O'Toole to do. Consider that O'Toole dumped Sloan precisely because Derek Sloan would not tow the party line as O'Toole defined it.

Now IF you want to make an argument that the practice of whipping votes in parliament should be banned to improve our democracy, that's an argument that can made. However, without whipping, there is no party system - there are pros and cons to the party system. At the root is the question of how you form a government without a party system, and that is followed by the question of would not defacto "parties" form from a a 100% independent set of MPs? Surely someone like O'toole would canvas around for 155 or so like minded MPs in order to form a government, and would not that become a defacto "party"?

Although it is somewhat "inside game", the fact that O'Toole did NOT whip this vote does a few things.

Firstly it shows O'Toole has weak spots as "leader" of the CPC - O'Toole says he is pro-choice, yet his party overwhelmingly in this vote said that they are anti-choice and on the side of theocracy - not democracy.

That is untenable for the majority of Canadians for a few reasons. For those who are pro-choice (the majority of Canadians) it is a red flag that IF the CPC forms a majority government under O'Toole, everything O'Toole says about being pro-choice is meaningless. O'Toole had a chance to whip this vote and prove his bona fides (as Harper did on such issues) and O'Toole folded his tent.

To some extent, Monsef was "doing a Skippy P." and laying a trap while boxing O'Toole in. IF O'Toole did not whip the vote to prove his bona fides, he and the CPC would be exposed and "the stinking albatross" is back in all its smelly glory. IF O'Toole whipped the to prove his bona fides, then it would appear that he did so at the behest of a Liberal cabinet minister - yikes! Pluys, by creating a bit more controversy, Monsef was always in a win-win because she wanted more Canadian voters to be aware of "the stinking albatross".

Politically, O'Toole and the CPC are on the wrong side of this issue. 70% of Canadians are happy with the pro-choice position of Canada as it stands. 11% "don't care" (no gains to had there). Only 10% want changes to restrict a woman's choice.

So from a "direct democracy" political standpoint, Cathay Wagantall and the CPC are waaaay off base. What Wagantall has done hurts O'Toole, hurts the CPC. Monsef happily rubbed salt in that open sore on the CPC flank.

IF O'Toole was being truly democratic, he would have stood with the majority of Canadians (yup that would be democratic) and would have whipped the vote.

Longer term that also would have been politically smart, establishing O'Toole's leadership in the minds of voters and at the same time banishing "the stinking albatross" back to its little desert island. Neither of those things happened, and O'Toole and the CPC just lost a lot of swing voters...and that's democracy.

Monsef will have a field day with this in the next election, and that's part of democracy as well. She "schooled" O'Toole and the CPC on this issue.
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Re: The Fall of Democracy in Canada under Trudeau's Liberals

Post by The Green Barbarian »

hobbyguy wrote: Jun 3rd, 2021, 10:39 am
The reality is simple. Cathay Wagantall was trying to attack the rights and freedoms of Canadian women.
The reality is even simpler - Mary Monsef was trying to attack the rights and freedoms of all Canadians. The CPC was NOT attacking anybody's rights and freedoms, but of course, that won't stop the outright fibs and lies being told by those that have a vested interest in completely misrepresenting the situation.

O'Toole and the CPC will have a field day with Monsef's stupidity on this one. The CPC "schooled the extremely dim Monsef, and by extension, the horribly dense bunch in the PMO.
70% of Canadians are happy with the pro-choice position of Canada as it stands.
Who is affected by sex selective abortions? Not the elitist while liberal scum, who get to pontificate on high on this issue because it's not their daughters being forced to abort their female babies. Leslyn Lewis, a person of color, spoke passionately on this issue, and the racist elitist liberal scum out there shouted her down, or worse, dismissed her with idiotic cavalier nonsense, and brought up bogeymen that don't exist. This kind of behavior by white liberal elitists is just disgusting, and downright evil. Shame on all that dismiss the Leslyn Lewis' of the world - you say that you want to "hear them" as part of getting rid of systemic racism, and yet when they say things you don't want to hear, you act like complete animals and fools. Just so awful.
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Re: The Fall of Democracy in Canada under Trudeau's Liberals

Post by ckil »

Pro-choice. No matter what the circumstances. Simple.

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