Canada's Neoliberal Transformation

rustled
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Re: Canada's Neoliberal Transformation

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Those genuinely interested in the theory - particularly those who wish others to see it as an "issue" (or an "attack" or "THE cause" etc.) - may be interested in examining the concept of neoliberalism in the larger context of political theory - perhaps a more useful exercise than committing themselves to the narrow conclusions reached by others. https://www.britannica.com/topic/govern ... -the-state
Ideology...gives evil-doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination...[it] is the social theory which helps to make his actions seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes...
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Re: Canada's Neoliberal Transformation

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The pandemic has pulled back the curtain on some basic inequities in the way we do things, and like it or not a shift to the left is needed to put things back on track. I'm not talking full scale socialism, but certainly "less capitalist" is in order, enough to put us a step or two away from the predatory nature of our current level of capitalism.

Are You a Victim of Predatory Capitalism?

Trusting your employer or service provider can carry a high price.On the other hand, capitalism—and competition—is regularly extolled as bringing out the best in us. It prods us to be more productive and remunerates our efforts accordingly. At least, capitalism at its best does that.

But in this country today, we seem to have drifted toward a mutant (cancerous?) form of capitalism, or free enterprise. One that's under-regulated, dysregulated—or both. One that's all too likely to reward those who excel not in generating useful products or fertile ideas, but rather in manipulating and deceiving the populace for personal gain. One that enables cold-blooded individualists to craftily “work” the system to their economic advantage (loopholes, anyone?). These relentless opportunists—or corporations—frequently prevent others from succeeding through hard work, diligence, and perseverance. In other words, the American Way (not to mention the American Dream) has become increasingly perverted.


https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog ... capitalism
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Re: Canada's Neoliberal Transformation

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fluffy wrote: The pandemic has pulled back the curtain on some basic inequities in the way we do things, and like it or not a shift to the left is needed to put things back on track. I'm not talking full scale socialism, but certainly "less capitalist" is in order, enough to put us a step or two away from the predatory nature of our current level of capitalism.
I agree and think the trend of more and more people shifting left with their socioeconomic views will continue – only made stronger by recent efforts by the far right to deny, deflect from and/or diminish their concerns (climate change, social inequity, promoting hate and racism, etc.). This was exacerbated further by watching more than a couple of people on the right being completely bamboozled by an obvious con and grifter, and since then doubling down on the adoration of that megomaniac. I think some of the antics we’re seeing from the far right down south (in response to this collective shift to the left that has obviously threatened them) has scared others to move further left in their views as well, and arguments built on deflections and/or outdated rhetoric are not convincing many people otherwise.

The link between education and intelligence and holding socioeconomic views closer to the centre or left has long been established. Probably a strong reason for conservatives to continue trying to portray education as some form of indoctrination (and why Trump loved the “under-educated”). I’ve always been concerned by the dumbing down of our population (denouncing education, getting completely duped by “news” from bloggers, etc.) but perhaps there is hope that more and more people are recognizing the failures of right-wing ideology and realizing “more capitalism” is exactly what we do not need. Few want us to move “closer to socialism”, but recognize the social system mechanisms (public education and health, welfare programs, industrial regulation) that have supported our democracy and free market to this point need to be strengthened. The attack by the right on these systems has very likely backfired on them.
Right-wingers tend to be less intelligent than left-wingers, and people with low childhood intelligence tend to grow up to have racist and anti-gay views, …

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech ... acist.html
Cognitive abilities are the key to having an open mind. This means that people who have low or very low cognitive abilities opt for conservative ideologies because of the feeling of order they offer.

https://exploringyourmind.com/left-wing-people-smarter/
Educated voters’ leftward shift is surprisingly old and international

<snip>

Thomas Piketty, an economist, became famous for a book that analysed 200 years of data on wealth inequality in a wide range of countries. This month he published a paper, co-written by Amory Gethin and Clara Martínez-Toledano, which applies a similar approach to the relationship between demography and ideology. Its findings imply that the electoral victories of Donald Trump and the Brexit campaign in 2016 were not an abrupt departure from precedent, but rather the consequence of a 60-year-old international trend.

<snip>

Today, wealthy people still lean to the right. In contrast, the relationship between education and ideology began to reverse as early as the 1960s. Every year, the 10% of voters with the most years of schooling gravitated towards left-wing parties, while the remaining 90% slid the other way. By 2000, this had gone on for so long that, as a group, the most educated voters became more left-wing than their less-educated peers. The gap has only grown since then.

This trend is strikingly consistent. It developed just as fast in the 20th century as in the 21st, and appears in almost every Western democracy studied. This includes both two-party systems and proportional ones, in which green parties now lure educated voters, and nativist parties attract the less educated. Such breadth and regularity make the rise of right-wing populists like Mr Trump—and of left-of-centre technocrats like Emmanuel Macron or Justin Trudeau—look like a historical inevitability.

https://dewaynenet.wordpress.com/2021/0 ... rnational/
The hard-right Cons on this board don't like anyone referencing the findings from the research
into conservative "thinking", but they sure do enjoy providing us with plenty of evidence for it.
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Re: Canada's Neoliberal Transformation

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Right-wingers tend to be less intelligent than left-wingers...
There's some thin ice there. It's not exactly fair to say right wingers are less intelligent, there are plenty of smart right wingers. But studies have shown that less intelligent people do tend to hold conservative views. Sort of a chicken/egg thing. :)
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Re: Canada's Neoliberal Transformation

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fluffy wrote:
Right-wingers tend to be less intelligent than left-wingers...
There's some thin ice there. It's not exactly fair to say right wingers are less intelligent, there are plenty of smart right wingers. But studies have shown that less intelligent people do tend to hold conservative views. Sort of a chicken/egg thing. :)
Indeed. These studies suggest that, in general, this is what we can expect to find. It's like trying to suggest that, in general, only conservative thinkers have the ability to apply prudence or sober second thought to their thinking. I think we both recognize there are no absolutes here, and I think what we are saying is that, in general, people's views are shifting left.
The hard-right Cons on this board don't like anyone referencing the findings from the research
into conservative "thinking", but they sure do enjoy providing us with plenty of evidence for it.
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Re: Canada's Neoliberal Transformation

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fluffy wrote: Jul 14th, 2021, 6:49 am The pandemic has pulled back the curtain on some basic inequities in the way we do things, and like it or not a shift to the left is needed to put things back on track. I'm not talking full scale socialism, but certainly "less capitalist" is in order, enough to put us a step or two away from the predatory nature of our current level of capitalism.

Are You a Victim of Predatory Capitalism?

Trusting your employer or service provider can carry a high price.On the other hand, capitalism—and competition—is regularly extolled as bringing out the best in us. It prods us to be more productive and remunerates our efforts accordingly. At least, capitalism at its best does that.

But in this country today, we seem to have drifted toward a mutant (cancerous?) form of capitalism, or free enterprise. One that's under-regulated, dysregulated—or both. One that's all too likely to reward those who excel not in generating useful products or fertile ideas, but rather in manipulating and deceiving the populace for personal gain. One that enables cold-blooded individualists to craftily “work” the system to their economic advantage (loopholes, anyone?). These relentless opportunists—or corporations—frequently prevent others from succeeding through hard work, diligence, and perseverance. In other words, the American Way (not to mention the American Dream) has become increasingly perverted.


https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog ... capitalism
Sorry, this one just made me laugh - scary scenarios and dramatic statements to sell an agenda.

The author uses classic victim/oppressor ideology and the usual emotional manipulations to exploit the gullible. So it's more than a little amusing to see the author attempt to savage capitalism for "manipulating and deceiving the populace" while manipulating and deceiving his readers.

It would be quite naïve of us to believe relentless opportunism is exploited by capitalists, but not those with an agenda of opposing capitalism.

The antidote to being taken advantage of is to think critically about all of these concepts and ideologies, and to be aware of who is peddling what - and why. IMO.
Ideology...gives evil-doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination...[it] is the social theory which helps to make his actions seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes...
-Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Canada's Neoliberal Transformation

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fluffy wrote: Jul 14th, 2021, 6:49 am

But in this country today, we seem to have drifted toward a mutant (cancerous?) form of capitalism, or free enterprise. One that's under-regulated, dysregulated—or both. One that's all too likely to reward those who excel not in generating useful products or fertile ideas, but rather in manipulating and deceiving the populace for personal gain. One that enables cold-blooded individualists to craftily “work” the system to their economic advantage (loopholes, anyone?). These relentless opportunists—or corporations—frequently prevent others from succeeding through hard work, diligence, and perseverance. In other words, the American Way (not to mention the American Dream) has become increasingly perverted.[/i]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog ... capitalism
OMG, you just nailed the current lefts political and social being in this country.
Cold blooded, individualists and groups with crafty manipulation of our current weak, social, victim hood enviroment.
This is so directly supporting our countries failure.
The have not's, the victim group's have found a way to take advantage of the rest of us, instead of actually self achieving.
Self merit, accomplishment, achievement, survival is out the window now.
Replaced with "poor me", help me, give to me, I was in the wrong line up and got shafted.
What a disgrace and a horrible attempt at this lefts perpetual propaganda victim hood campaign.
You realize that in todays system, their has never been such a vast improvement to any of the past's abilities and manipulation available to "Crafty" people wanting to take advantage?
The only "crafty" disgusting manipulation and deceit we see playing out today for personal gain is that of every single of today's vast victim hood membership. Prove me wrong, outside of promoting ones own needed belief.
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Re: Canada's Neoliberal Transformation

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rustled wrote: Jul 14th, 2021, 9:27 am
fluffy wrote: Jul 14th, 2021, 6:49 am The pandemic has pulled back the curtain on some basic inequities in the way we do things, and like it or not a shift to the left is needed to put things back on track. I'm not talking full scale socialism, but certainly "less capitalist" is in order, enough to put us a step or two away from the predatory nature of our current level of capitalism.

Are You a Victim of Predatory Capitalism?

Trusting your employer or service provider can carry a high price.On the other hand, capitalism—and competition—is regularly extolled as bringing out the best in us. It prods us to be more productive and remunerates our efforts accordingly. At least, capitalism at its best does that.

But in this country today, we seem to have drifted toward a mutant (cancerous?) form of capitalism, or free enterprise. One that's under-regulated, dysregulated—or both. One that's all too likely to reward those who excel not in generating useful products or fertile ideas, but rather in manipulating and deceiving the populace for personal gain. One that enables cold-blooded individualists to craftily “work” the system to their economic advantage (loopholes, anyone?). These relentless opportunists—or corporations—frequently prevent others from succeeding through hard work, diligence, and perseverance. In other words, the American Way (not to mention the American Dream) has become increasingly perverted.


https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog ... capitalism
Sorry, this one just made me laugh - scary scenarios and dramatic statements to sell an agenda.

The author uses classic victim/oppressor ideology and the usual emotional manipulations to exploit the gullible. So it's more than a little amusing to see the author attempt to savage capitalism for "manipulating and deceiving the populace" while manipulating and deceiving his readers.

It would be quite naïve of us to believe relentless opportunism is exploited by capitalists, but not those with an agenda of opposing capitalism.

The antidote to being taken advantage of is to think critically about all of these concepts and ideologies, and to be aware of who is peddling what - and why. IMO.
:up:

People who self-identify as neo-liberals are a rarity,as the term has become a pejorative, a label to be attached to those whose views we want to discredit. Some on the left and right like to use the label on politicians like Reagan and Thatcher, but aside from making some really bad trade international trade deals, neither of them really deserves to be called a neo-liberal, and it is highly unlikely that either would have used the term to describe their political philosophy.

As with socialism, capitalism or any other ism, whether you are a fan of neo-liberalism mostly depends on your personal interpretation of what it is.

Marc David Loeb is a real cheerleader. According to his interpretation, “Neoliberalism has done the most good for the most people of any economic system in human history.” https://medium.com/@marcdloeb/neolibera ... 9bd91eda4c

Marc also shares his rather unique view of libertarianism: “What separates neoliberals from libertarians is that neoliberals recognize that markets sometimes fail when left completely unsupervised. Anti-trust regulations are needed to maintain competition and protect consumers.”

Utter nonsense of course. By their very nature, libertarians believe in the supervisory role of governments. According to the libertarian founders of the US, it is the raison d'être of good government.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
Libertarians believe that the primary role of government is to safeguard the rights of the individual. That means empowering government to protect us from being injured by the irresponsible acts of others; hence, environmental protection regulations, anti-trust legislation and other laws and regs needed to protect the rights of individuals and the environment we share with other living creatures.
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Re: Canada's Neoliberal Transformation

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I'm bringing this link from another thread because it is so relevant to the topic of this thread. The speaker, US entrepreneur and venture capitalist Nick Hanauer speaks directly and eloquently to the point that the neo-liberal economic policy we currently operate under is a sham, and that the way ahead is not anti-capitalism, but simply a better form of capitalism, one that respects all stakeholders including employees, suppliers, customers and communities, and not just CEOs and shareholders. It's a seventeen minute listen if you include the Q&A section at the end.

https://youtu.be/th3KE_H27bs
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Re: Canada's Neoliberal Transformation

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fluffy wrote: Jul 26th, 2021, 9:10 am I'm bringing this link from another thread because it is so relevant to the topic of this thread. The speaker, US entrepreneur and venture capitalist Nick Hanauer speaks directly and eloquently to the point that the neo-liberal economic policy we currently operate under is a sham, and that the way ahead is not anti-capitalism, but simply a better form of capitalism, one that respects all stakeholders including employees, suppliers, customers and communities, and not just CEOs and shareholders. It's a seventeen minute listen if you include the Q&A section at the end.

https://youtu.be/th3KE_H27bs
His objective is to convince people to support the power shift he is funding, while ignoring the consequences.

First he paints our current economic system in the harshest possible negative terms, to suggest the choice we should make is between the worst possible iteration of capitalism and what he's proposing - which is helping powerful corporations like his buy more control over government.

And as I said in the other thread, he's not even telling the truth about how the $15 wage "they" cooked up for Seattle actually panned out:.
viewtopic.php?p=2854969#p2854969

Several of the commenters in the video saw what he was doing.
Ideology...gives evil-doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination...[it] is the social theory which helps to make his actions seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes...
-Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Canada's Neoliberal Transformation

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fluffy wrote: Jul 26th, 2021, 9:10 am I'm bringing this link from another thread because it is so relevant to the topic of this thread. The speaker, US entrepreneur and venture capitalist Nick Hanauer speaks directly and eloquently to the point that the neo-liberal economic policy we currently operate under is a sham, and that the way ahead is not anti-capitalism, but simply a better form of capitalism, one that respects all stakeholders including employees, suppliers, customers and communities, and not just CEOs and shareholders. It's a seventeen minute listen if you include the Q&A section at the end.

https://youtu.be/th3KE_H27bs
Thanks for posting this, purely so that we have examples of con-artists like this guy to gauge our opinions and protect ourselves from being turned into marks and gullible fools believing in the garbage this guy is spewing. It's important though to hear out totally awful people like this guy though just to ensure that you can recognize the scams and govern yourself accordingly. Thank you! :up:
Justin Trudeau- racist, elitist, liar. What a sick piece of garbage.

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Re: Canada's Neoliberal Transformation

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rustled wrote: Jul 26th, 2021, 9:30 amFirst he paints our current economic system in the harshest possible negative terms, to suggest the choice we should make is between the worst possible iteration of capitalism and what he's proposing - which is helping powerful corporations like his buy more control over government.

I got none of that from his talk, and having done some research into the progress and effects of neo-liberalism found him to be spot on. He suggests a shift from the current predatory form of capitalism to a more widely beneficial stakeholder capitalism would lead to a better future for all, and not just the few at the top of the food chain. I've been saying this for some time now, and I'm no billionaire.
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Re: Canada's Neoliberal Transformation

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fluffy wrote: Jul 26th, 2021, 10:10 am
rustled wrote: Jul 26th, 2021, 9:30 amFirst he paints our current economic system in the harshest possible negative terms, to suggest the choice we should make is between the worst possible iteration of capitalism and what he's proposing - which is helping powerful corporations like his buy more control over government.

I got none of that from his talk, and having done some research into the progress and effects of neo-liberalism found him to be spot on.
It seems to me what he was saying was what you prefer to believe. It aligns with all the negative talking points you've shared about capitalism and corporations. So your personal responses to his TED talk make perfect sense.
fluffy wrote: He suggests a shift from the current predatory form of capitalism to a more widely beneficial stakeholder capitalism would lead to a better future for all, and not just the few at the top of the food chain. I've been saying this for some time now, and I'm no billionaire.
Yes, what he is saying aligns perfectly with what you've been saying, as is to be expected. That was his objective.

What he was doing during his talk, as he made plain at the end, also aligns perfectly with what I've been saying: His objective is to use the narrative he paid to create to convince people to support the power shift he is funding, a power shift that puts more power in the government he pays to create laws.

He prefers we ignore the consequences (which is why he says the $15 they "cooked up" for Seattle was "better", knowing that wasn't the truth.

He also prefers you don't think too hard about the consequences of giving incredibly wealthy people our permission for them to control what laws the government enacts.

My first post in this thread was a suggestion for people to get a more rounded, broader view of neoliberalism than the one being offered in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=2845727#p2845727

It seems to me some folk are resistant to broadening their understanding, which IMO limits our ability to see when a smooth talker is pitching a skewed narrative to gain support for his agenda.
Ideology...gives evil-doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination...[it] is the social theory which helps to make his actions seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes...
-Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Canada's Neoliberal Transformation

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rustled wrote: Jul 26th, 2021, 10:39 am
It seems to me some folk are resistant to broadening their understanding, which IMO limits our ability to see when a smooth talker is pitching a skewed narrative to gain support for his agenda.
Nailed it Rustled! :up:
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Re: Canada's Neoliberal Transformation

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Maybe some people will enjoy this gem
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy8vTu ... ex=5&t=15s[/youtube]

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