Anti-Semitism in Canada - More Leftist hate
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- Grand Pooh-bah
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Re: Anti-Semitism in Canada - More Leftist hate
Israel has displaced 3x as many Palestinians and refused their right of return as their are Arabs in Israel - while insisting that Jews who have never stepped foot in Israel have a birthright to Israel.
If Wet’suwet’en members were forcibly removing non-indigenous from their communities under the protection of the head of state then I would say it is apartheid.rustled wrote: ↑Sep 10th, 2021, 10:34 am If one of the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs held the same public beliefs as Yonatan Yosef and wanted every non-Wet'suwet'en removed from Moricetown, would it then be appropriate to use the term "apartheid community" to describe the community of Moricetown? If not, why should we rely on the actions of self-described Zionist as an excuse for using the term "apartheid state" to describe Israel?
Because you haven’t listed a similar community.
I think it’s because after 50 years people of the Western World are, with the help of technology, seeing first hand how Israeli law protects Jewish settlement and emboldens the removal of Arab settlements within Israel’s borders.
“I have reason to believe that the agents as a whole … are doing all they can, by refusing food until the Indians are on the verge of starvation, to reduce the expense." - Sir John A. MacDonald
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- Grand Pooh-bah
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Re: Anti-Semitism in Canada - More Leftist hate
You could base it on Israel’s displacement of approximately 5-6 million external and internal Arab refugees and their promotion of Jewish-only settlement through national law.
“I have reason to believe that the agents as a whole … are doing all they can, by refusing food until the Indians are on the verge of starvation, to reduce the expense." - Sir John A. MacDonald
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- Buddha of the Board
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Re: Anti-Semitism in Canada - More Leftist hate
I'll look into what you're claiming here about "right of return". While I suspect it's more complicated than the way you've stated it here, I could be wrong. Always something to learn!Brass Monkey wrote: ↑Sep 10th, 2021, 10:48 amIsrael has displaced 3x as many Palestinians and refused their right of return as their are Arabs in Israel - while insisting that Jews who have never stepped foot in Israel have a birthright to Israel.
Are you referring to the removal of people who lost their court battle to remain on land they've been occupying, yet refuse to leave? If so, it seems unlikely to me you'd refer to it as apartheid if a non-indigenous person lost a similar court battle to remain on First Nations land they'd been occupying, yet refused to leave, and was forcibly removed.Brass Monkey wrote:If Wet’suwet’en members were forcibly removing non-indigenous from their communities under the protection of the head of state then I would say it is apartheid.rustled wrote: ↑Sep 10th, 2021, 10:34 am If one of the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs held the same public beliefs as Yonatan Yosef and wanted every non-Wet'suwet'en removed from Moricetown, would it then be appropriate to use the term "apartheid community" to describe the community of Moricetown? If not, why should we rely on the actions of self-described Zionist as an excuse for using the term "apartheid state" to describe Israel?
I find the double standard applied to Israel highly problematic.
If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do.
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- Buddha of the Board
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Re: Anti-Semitism in Canada - More Leftist hate
Another gross oversimplification - and again, easily contrasted to see how double-standards are applied.Brass Monkey wrote: ↑Sep 10th, 2021, 10:50 amYou could base it on Israel’s displacement of approximately 5-6 million external and internal Arab refugees and their promotion of Jewish-only settlement through national law.
And still: making it all about hate. Intolerance of an entire people. Seems to me we were once united in thinking this sort of intolerant bigotry and hatred were wrong. Terrible to see it being "justified" now.
If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do.
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Re: Anti-Semitism in Canada - More Leftist hate
I’m referring to the original 700,000 Palestinian refugees and the millions of their sons and daughters who are at present being denied their return to their homelands because of Israeli law - while Israeli law protects a birthright for Jews to return to Israel even if they cannot trace any habitation of Israel in their lineage.rustled wrote: ↑Sep 10th, 2021, 10:57 am Are you referring to the removal of people who lost their court battle to remain on land they've been occupying, yet refuse to leave? If so, it seems unlikely to me you'd refer to it as apartheid if a non-indigenous person lost a similar court battle to remain on First Nations land they'd been occupying, yet refused to leave, and was forcibly removed.
I find the double standard applied to Israel highly problematic.
“I have reason to believe that the agents as a whole … are doing all they can, by refusing food until the Indians are on the verge of starvation, to reduce the expense." - Sir John A. MacDonald
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- Grand Pooh-bah
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Re: Anti-Semitism in Canada - More Leftist hate
United in one sense and divided in another. United in condemning fascism and totalitarianism / authoritarianism. Divided in where we stand on how we justify or condemn the lawful or unjust occupation of peoples lands.rustled wrote: ↑Sep 10th, 2021, 10:58 am Another gross oversimplification - and again, easily contrasted to see how double-standards are applied.
And still: making it all about hate. Intolerance of an entire people. Seems to me we were once united in thinking this sort of intolerant bigotry and hatred were wrong. Terrible to see it being "justified" now.
“I have reason to believe that the agents as a whole … are doing all they can, by refusing food until the Indians are on the verge of starvation, to reduce the expense." - Sir John A. MacDonald
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Re: Anti-Semitism in Canada - More Leftist hate
I have yet to discover whether your interpretation of law as presented here is accurate.Brass Monkey wrote: ↑Sep 10th, 2021, 11:21 amI’m referring to the original 700,000 Palestinian refugees and the millions of their sons and daughters who are at present being denied their return to their homelands because of Israeli law - while Israeli law protects a birthright for Jews to return to Israel even if they cannot trace any habitation of Israel in their lineage.rustled wrote: ↑Sep 10th, 2021, 10:57 am Are you referring to the removal of people who lost their court battle to remain on land they've been occupying, yet refuse to leave? If so, it seems unlikely to me you'd refer to it as apartheid if a non-indigenous person lost a similar court battle to remain on First Nations land they'd been occupying, yet refused to leave, and was forcibly removed.
I find the double standard applied to Israel highly problematic.
Regardless, I find it highly unlikely indeed that my response to that law will include using it as justification for the using language and terms that promote stereotyping and hatred against an entire people.
If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do.
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Re: Anti-Semitism in Canada - More Leftist hate
When your version of uniting to condemn wrong involves another wrong - using stereotypes and loaded terms likely to promote hatred to describe an entire group of people - count me out.Brass Monkey wrote: ↑Sep 10th, 2021, 11:24 amUnited in one sense and divided in another. United in condemning fascism and totalitarianism / authoritarianism. Divided in where we stand on how we justify or condemn the lawful or unjust occupation of peoples lands.rustled wrote: ↑Sep 10th, 2021, 10:58 am Another gross oversimplification - and again, easily contrasted to see how double-standards are applied.
And still: making it all about hate. Intolerance of an entire people. Seems to me we were once united in thinking this sort of intolerant bigotry and hatred were wrong. Terrible to see it being "justified" now.
If the hatred, intolerance and bigotry of anti-Semitism do form the dividing line between where you stand and where I stand, that is a line I'm not prepared to cross.
Instead, I invite you to cross back from intolerance and bigotry and hatred to the place where we all were, before we learned intolerance, bigotry, prejudice, stereotyping and hatred required for anti-Semitism.
If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do.
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- Grand Pooh-bah
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Re: Anti-Semitism in Canada - More Leftist hate
I haven’t employed a single stereotype.
I haven’t said a single anti-Semitic trope or said I support it.
Yes and then I can be like the Canadians of the early 1900s and turn a blind eye to Israeli settlement over unprotected peoples lands.
“I have reason to believe that the agents as a whole … are doing all they can, by refusing food until the Indians are on the verge of starvation, to reduce the expense." - Sir John A. MacDonald
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Re: Anti-Semitism in Canada - More Leftist hate
You've used a specific person as an example of why we should share your view, along with loaded language.
You certainly seem to be justifying anti-Semitism.
You can be like anyone who stands against injustice without justifying the use of loaded language, and without suggesting we should join you in hating "a guy like Yonatan Yosef".Brass Monkey wrote:Yes and then I can be like the Canadians of the early 1900s and turn a blind eye to Israeli settlement over unprotected peoples lands.
If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do.
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- Grand Pooh-bah
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Re: Anti-Semitism in Canada - More Leftist hate
This specific person is empowered by the Israeli government. It is no longer a matter of individualism when the government emboldens it.
I think you might be conflating anti-radical zionism and anti-semitism.
Yonatan Yosef is cut from the same cloth as those who believe that America belongs to the whites, the same as those who believed Germany belonged to the whites. There are ethnic nationalists in every nation but it seems Israeli’s get a pass on it.
“I have reason to believe that the agents as a whole … are doing all they can, by refusing food until the Indians are on the verge of starvation, to reduce the expense." - Sir John A. MacDonald
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Re: Anti-Semitism in Canada - More Leftist hate
While I'm not prepared to take your description here as accurate, I'd also suggest there's no reason to be intolerant of any group of people because of what their government does or does not do.Brass Monkey wrote: ↑Sep 10th, 2021, 12:14 pmThis specific person is empowered by the Israeli government. It is no longer a matter of individualism when the government emboldens it.
Choosing not seeing people as individuals is the basic requirement for prejudice, bigotry and intolerance.
You're here in this thread about anti-Semitism in Canada, presenting arguments and excuses intended to justify the increase in anti-Semitism.
Your "Israelis get a pass on it" complaint promotes the notion that Israelis are Yonatan Yosef, someone you ask us to hate. I find your statements in this thread rife with intolerance bigotry, stereotyping and prejudice against Israelis. I find little evidence you see them as individuals, and plenty of evidence you see them all as guilty of crimes against Arabs. This is seriously problematic, IMO - a terrible backsliding to embrace and promote the intolerance and bigotry that leads to hatred. Nothing good can come of it.Brass Monkey wrote:Yonatan Yosef is cut from the same cloth as those who believe that America belongs to the whites, the same as those who believed Germany belonged to the whites. There are ethnic nationalists in every nation but it seems Israeli’s get a pass on it.
If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do.
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- Grand Pooh-bah
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Re: Anti-Semitism in Canada - More Leftist hate
The government did not tell him to be a radical Zionist and adopt a vision of East Jerusalem as a purely Jewish one. He manifested that desire himself. He is one of many radical Zionist’s who have been empowered by the Israeli government.
Pretending that radical ethnic nationalists are isolated anomalies and not part of a growing group of radicals is how these groups come to power and start persecuting who they believe to be undesirable.
You’ve no idea what my intentions are. It is tragic but to be expected that expats are on that receiving end of the social fallout when their native nations are committing unjust acts against unprotected peoples. It happened to the Germans, then the Japanese, then the Vietnamese, then the Arabs and then the Jews.
Yonatan is a racist, far-right nationalist whose vision of a utopia is one where all of Israel is inhabited by Jewish people and only Jewish people. This is a universal stain on humanity and the only reason I’ve come to believe you cannot condemn him is because he is Israeli. I didn’t insinuate all Israelis are like Yonatan, I insinuated men like Yonatan get a pass because he is Israeli and many see the condemnation of radical Jewish supremacy as anti-semitism.rustled wrote: ↑Sep 10th, 2021, 12:03 pm Your "Israelis get a pass on it" complaint promotes the notion that Israelis are Yonatan Yosef, someone you ask us to hate. I find your statements in this thread rife with intolerance bigotry, stereotyping and prejudice against Israelis. I find little evidence you see them as individuals, and plenty of evidence you see them all as guilty of crimes against Arabs. This is seriously problematic, IMO - a terrible backsliding to embrace and promote the intolerance and bigotry that leads to hatred. Nothing good can come of it.
“I have reason to believe that the agents as a whole … are doing all they can, by refusing food until the Indians are on the verge of starvation, to reduce the expense." - Sir John A. MacDonald
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Re: Anti-Semitism in Canada - More Leftist hate
Regardless of your intentions, the results here speak for themselves. Using loaded terms, presenting someone vile as representative of a people and inviting people to hate are ugly tactics.
How quickly you've formed a belief about me.Brass Monkey wrote:Yonatan is a racist, far-right nationalist whose vision of a utopia is one where all of Israel is inhabited by Jewish people and only Jewish people. This is a universal stain on humanity and the only reason I’ve come to believe you cannot condemn him is because he is Israeli.rustled wrote: ↑Sep 10th, 2021, 12:03 pm Your "Israelis get a pass on it" complaint promotes the notion that Israelis are Yonatan Yosef, someone you ask us to hate. I find your statements in this thread rife with intolerance bigotry, stereotyping and prejudice against Israelis. I find little evidence you see them as individuals, and plenty of evidence you see them all as guilty of crimes against Arabs. This is seriously problematic, IMO - a terrible backsliding to embrace and promote the intolerance and bigotry that leads to hatred. Nothing good can come of it.
I haven't condemned him because I have only the words of someone who seems to me to be very ready to condemn groups of people through the use racial stereotypes and bigotry and intolerance - someone who expects me to hate him - on which to base that condemnation. It's interesting to me that you've chosen to criticize me for not condemning him on your word alone. How quickly you've reverted to asking me to join you in hating someone I do not know nor understand.
Perhaps, then, the problem is in your own perspective - the perspective that assumes everyone chooses who to condemn based on stereotypes, prejudices and bigotry. You believe Yonatan belongs in a "group", and once you've established for the rest of us which group he is in, we should be prepared to condemn him, too?Brass Monkey wrote:I didn’t insinuate all Israelis are like Yonatan, I insinuated men like Yonatan get a pass because he is Israeli and many see the condemnation of radical Jewish supremacy as anti-semitism.
IMO, that is precisely how intolerance and prejudice works to build hate in the world. I want no part of it.
If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do.
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- Grand Pooh-bah
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Re: Anti-Semitism in Canada - More Leftist hate
Your refusal to condemn a Jewish supremacist is telling. Maybe anti-semitism grows with peoples attempt at normalizing Jewish supremacy.
Not once did I blame Jews. I blamed radical Jewish supremacists who are emboldened by an affiliate government.rustled wrote: ↑Sep 10th, 2021, 12:03 pm I haven't condemned him because I have only the words of someone who seems to me to be very ready to condemn groups of people through the use racial stereotypes and bigotry and intolerance - someone who expects me to hate him - on which to base that condemnation. It's interesting to me that you've chosen to criticize me for not condemning him on your word alone. How quickly you've reverted to asking me to join you in hating someone I do not know nor understand.
If you do not know or understand the phenomenon of Jewish Supremacy then maybe you aren’t up to task to discuss the realities of anti-semitism and how it blends with the Israel-Palestine conflict.
Yonatan does belong to a group, he is a sitting member of the Jerusalem City Council. Yonatan is one of many who believe that the forcible removable of non-Jews from Israel has been ordained by a divine power.rustled wrote: ↑Sep 10th, 2021, 12:03 pm Perhaps, then, the problem is in your own perspective - the perspective that assumes everyone chooses who to condemn based on stereotypes, prejudices and bigotry. You believe Yonatan belongs in a "group", and once you've established for the rest of us which group he is in, we should be prepared to condemn him, too?
Then you should have no qualms in condemning the supremacist philosophies of men like Yonatan Yosef.
“I have reason to believe that the agents as a whole … are doing all they can, by refusing food until the Indians are on the verge of starvation, to reduce the expense." - Sir John A. MacDonald