Alberta

foenix
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Re: Alberta

Post by foenix »

The Green Barbarian wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 12:30 pm
rustled wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 12:10 pm

Attempting to re-manipulate these Albertans into supporting more of the same emotional, feel-good "thinking" that created today's problems with new "save the planet from neo-liberalism" messaging that seeks to deflect from reality may not prove particularly successful.
:up: :up:

Well said.

And yet another thread gets sucked into the nonsensical "neo-liberalism" pit of hell. This is supposed to be a thread about Alberta, so I'll try and lug this back on topic from the usual suspect thread derailers...

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-ne ... among-kids

Good job in working to get these vax rates up! :up:
That's precious [icon_lol2.gif]

......and why do you think Alberta has one of the lowest vax rates and overall response?.......you think it might be the leadership?......

Premier Kenney vows Alberta will not mandate COVID-19 vaccinations

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/pr ... ccinations

'I apologize': Kenney says Alta. wrong for COVID-19 pandemic to endemic shift, not sorry for Open for Summer plan

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/i-apologize ... -1.5587497

Ontario needs to take the lessons of the Alberta catastrophe seriously

https://www.tvo.org/article/ontario-nee ... -seriously
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Re: Alberta

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AMA has “endorsed the decriminalization of drug use and possession of substances for personal use,” (a motion from AMA Representative Forum). This is an important, ongoing conversation.
Alberta Medical Association
interesting changes in alberta on the horizon
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: Alberta

Post by The Green Barbarian »

foenix wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 12:43 pm

That's precious [icon_lol2.gif]

I know eh? Well done Alberta, you guys rock!! It really would be stupid to try and spin this good news to the negative, especially if it was done in some way to benefit the horrid and awful NDP. Keep up the fantastic work Albertans!
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Re: Alberta

Post by Ka-El »

rustled wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 12:10 pm This is the usual deflection required by emotional, feel-good progressivism: rather than acknowledge that for decades our public policies have been increasingly formed and influenced by emotional, feel-good style progressivism - even in Alberta! -
Since you consistently refuse to specifically identify any of these public policies formed by “feel-good progressivism” I’ll just have to take a guess. If you’re talking about the carbon tax I was opposed to that from the beginning when it was first introduced in this province by then premier, Gordon Campbell, and when the usual hypocrites who are against it now were making excuses for and supporting it for purely partisan motive. Like any consumption tax, this regressive tax places a disproportionate burden on low and middle income earners, and with this tax in particular also unfairly targets rural over urban consumers. It also allows those who can afford to pollute to continue polluting and large energy corporations simply see it as a cost of doing business that they can pass to the consumer. There is very little that is progressive about this policy.
rustled wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 12:10 pm Pretend it's all someone else's fault. Ignore how this applies, in reality, to how we got to where we are today,
We’ve been getting this from you and the other far right posters here for years and its still your go-to deflection. Ignore the negative outcomes of decades of neoliberal policy and blame it on progressivism. It is your modus operandi.
rustled wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 12:10 pm Attempting to re-manipulate these Albertans into supporting more of the same emotional, feel-good "thinking" that created today's problems with new "save the planet from neo-liberalism" messaging that seeks to deflect from reality may not prove particularly successful.
You overestimate the importance of our discussion board. It would be delusional to think we are manipulating Albertans into supporting anything. I know through family and friends that contractors and trades people in Alberta (particularly Calgary where I am from) are very grateful for the capital projects Notley committed to and that many people regret falling for his emotional neoliberal, anti-NDP rhetoric in the last election. I would also guess from the current polling (there is only one poll that counts) it is unlikely they will be making the same mistake again. Most Albertans see Kenny’s government as both incompetent and corrupt, and many are more than willing (eager even) to give Notley another shot. We’ll see.
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Re: Alberta

Post by rustled »

Ka-El wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 4:15 pm
rustled wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 12:10 pm This is the usual deflection required by emotional, feel-good progressivism: rather than acknowledge that for decades our public policies have been increasingly formed and influenced by emotional, feel-good style progressivism - even in Alberta! -
Since you consistently refuse to specifically identify any of these public policies formed by “feel-good progressivism” I’ll just have to take a guess.
I've consistently responded to your silly request with the same answer - the vast majority of our public policy over the past few decades has been increasingly influenced by progressivism. Pretending otherwise is silly. Demanding specifics is silly - although I've provided them in the past only to have the same folk continue to insist I've never provided them. Makes me laugh.

While the progressive influence has been less in Alberta, it's still been the case that the majority of public policy change over the past few decades has been progressive - a great deal of it around "save the planet from climate change", and social justice issues related to farming practices. Pretending otherwise is silly.
Ka-El wrote:
rustled wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 12:10 pm Pretend it's all someone else's fault. Ignore how this applies, in reality, to how we got to where we are today,
We’ve been getting this from you and the other far right posters here for years and its still your go-to deflection. Ignore the negative outcomes of decades of neoliberal policy and blame it on progressivism. It is your modus operandi.
What's interesting is that while I say progressive policies have contributed, I've never tried to blame it all on progressive policy - I've been pretty consistent in pointing out that human nature and opportunists of all sorts are involved, exploiting whatever opportunities are presented, all of which contributes to the outcome. But enough about rustled! :topic:
Ka-El wrote:
rustled wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 12:10 pm Attempting to re-manipulate these Albertans into supporting more of the same emotional, feel-good "thinking" that created today's problems with new "save the planet from neo-liberalism" messaging that seeks to deflect from reality may not prove particularly successful.
You overestimate the importance of our discussion board. It would be delusional to think we are manipulating Albertans into supporting anything.
Ok, that just made me laugh. You seem to be taking what I said to mean you, personally, won't find it as easy to manipulate Albertans. I was speaking in far more general and terms, but if the shoe fits...
Ka-El wrote:I know through family and friends that contractors and trades people in Alberta (particularly Calgary where I am from) are very grateful for the capital projects Notley committed to and that many people regret falling for his emotional neoliberal, anti-NDP rhetoric in the last election. I would also guess from the current polling (there is only one poll that counts) it is unlikely they will be making the same mistake again. Most Albertans see Kenny’s government as both incompetent and corrupt, and many are more than willing (eager even) to give Notley another shot. We’ll see.
As a generalization, Calgarians do tend to think differently, in my experience - urban/rural differences. And yes, we shall see!
There is nothing more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - Martin Luther King Jr.
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: Alberta

Post by The Green Barbarian »

Ka-El wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 4:15 pm I know through family and friends that contractors and trades people in Alberta (particularly Calgary where I am from) are very grateful for the capital projects Notley committed to and that many people regret falling for his emotional neoliberal, anti-NDP rhetoric in the last election. I would also guess from the current polling (there is only one poll that counts) it is unlikely they will be making the same mistake again. Most Albertans see Kenny’s government as both incompetent and corrupt, and many are more than willing (eager even) to give Notley another shot. We’ll see.
So weird that all family and friends in my world from Calgary have exactly the opposite experience - they can't recall what these fabled "capital projects" that Notley committed to, but they are seeing actual private projects finally being approved now that adults who understand basic concepts regarding project economics etc are in power again. Tough to get a big capital project approved when the guy across the table was pouring mocha lattes only two weeks earlier, and had never figured out how to work the cash register at his coffee shop before being elected.

As for Jason Kenney have "neo-liberal" policies (lol lol) what a crock of manure. There wasn't much need for the UCP to use anti-NDP "rhetoric", the NDP sank their own boat by just being terrible at governing. There are few who want to give Notley and her gang of Chavez-istas another "shot", as they'd already seen enough of the sheer incompetence that you would expect from an army of baristas turned politicians. Alberta is booming again, and while the UCP can't really take credit for the market forces at work, they can take credit for letting private enterprise flourish without putting two hands around the neck of the golden goose, something the NDP always has a hard time doing.
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Re: Alberta

Post by Ka-El »

rustled wrote: I've consistently responded to your silly request with the same answer - the vast majority of our public policy over the past few decades has been increasingly influenced by progressivism.
That is so vague it is meaningless.
You seem to be taking what I said to mean you, personally, won't find it as easy to manipulate Albertans. I was speaking in far more general and terms, but if the shoe fits...
And yet that is not at all what I implied. You simply can't take responsibility for anything you post. Easier to deflect or come up with some deliberate misrepresentation.
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Re: Alberta

Post by vegas1500 »

Pappywinkle wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 12:19 pm
rustled wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 12:10 pm This is the usual deflection required by emotional, feel-good progressivism: rather than acknowledge that for decades our public policies have been increasingly formed and influenced by emotional, feel-good style progressivism - even in Alberta!
I'd say especially in Alberta, given how easily Albertan voters are manipulated by right parties to believe provincial governments control global oil prices and the constant hatred for Quebec. Thankfully Albertan voters have realized how terrible Kenney's UCP has been for Albertan families and will surely give them the boot to return to prosperous days of NDP governance.
“Prosperous days of NDP” [icon_lol2.gif] [icon_lol2.gif] [icon_lol2.gif] [icon_lol2.gif] Thanks, I needed a laugh today
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rustled
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Re: Alberta

Post by rustled »

Ka-El wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 5:01 pm
rustled wrote: I've consistently responded to your silly request with the same answer - the vast majority of our public policy over the past few decades has been increasingly influenced by progressivism.
That is so vague it is meaningless.
Well, I've used the analogy before - gravity contributes to how stuff end up where it ends up. Those who expect more specificity are always people who would rather not acknowledge how progressivism has contributed to our current socioeconomic situation, in Alberta or elsewhere. And as usual, it's a way of taking the thread off topic.
Ka-El wrote:
You seem to be taking what I said to mean you, personally, won't find it as easy to manipulate Albertans. I was speaking in far more general and terms, but if the shoe fits...
And yet that is not at all what I implied. You simply can't take responsibility for anything you post. Easier to deflect or come up with some deliberate misrepresentation.
Surely you've already posted enough about me. (What a strange fixation.)
:topic: If I've misinterpreted what you meant to imply, then perhaps you'll take some responsibility and explain to all of us what you really meant to imply when you wrote this:
Ka-El wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 4:15 pmYou overestimate the importance of our discussion board. It would be delusional to think we are manipulating Albertans into supporting anything.
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Re: Alberta

Post by PoplarSoul »

Ka-El wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 5:01 pm
rustled wrote: I've consistently responded to your silly request with the same answer - the vast majority of our public policy over the past few decades has been increasingly influenced by progressivism.
That is so vague it is meaningless.
You seem to be taking what I said to mean you, personally, won't find it as easy to manipulate Albertans. I was speaking in far more general and terms, but if the shoe fits...
And yet that is not at all what I implied. You simply can't take responsibility for anything you post. Easier to deflect or come up with some deliberate misrepresentation.
Well said.

:up: :up: :up:
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Re: Alberta

Post by Catsumi »

rustled wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 5:18 pm
Ka-El wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 5:01 pm

That is so vague it is meaningless.
Well, I've used the analogy before - gravity contributes to how stuff end up where it ends up. Those who expect more specificity are always people who would rather not acknowledge how progressivism has contributed to our current socioeconomic situation, in Alberta or elsewhere. And as usual, it's a way of taking the thread off topic.
Ka-El wrote:
And yet that is not at all what I implied. You simply can't take responsibility for anything you post. Easier to deflect or come up with some deliberate misrepresentation.
Surely you've already posted enough about me. (What a strange fixation.)
:topic: If I've misinterpreted what you meant to imply, then perhaps you'll take some responsibility and explain to all of us what you really meant to imply when you wrote this:
Ka-El wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 4:15 pmYou overestimate the importance of our discussion board. It would be delusional to think we are manipulating Albertans into supporting anything.



As usual, well said, rustled.
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foenix
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Re: Alberta

Post by foenix »

Ka-El wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 5:01 pm
rustled wrote: I've consistently responded to your silly request with the same answer - the vast majority of our public policy over the past few decades has been increasingly influenced by progressivism.
That is so vague it is meaningless.
You seem to be taking what I said to mean you, personally, won't find it as easy to manipulate Albertans. I was speaking in far more general and terms, but if the shoe fits...
And yet that is not at all what I implied. You simply can't take responsibility for anything you post. Easier to deflect or come up with some deliberate misrepresentation.
Well said Ka-El and to the crux of the matter......just more excuses and more of the tired and untrue "i've explained in the past" deflections.
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Re: Alberta

Post by Ka-El »

rustled wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 5:18 pm If I've misinterpreted what you meant to imply, then perhaps you'll take some responsibility and explain to all of us what you really meant to imply when you wrote this:
Ka-El wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 4:15 pmYou overestimate the importance of our discussion board. It would be delusional to think we are manipulating Albertans into supporting anything.
I simply responded to your post inferring someone was manipulating Albertans. If I've misinterpreted what you meant to imply, then perhaps you'll take some responsibility and explain to all of us what you really meant to imply when you wrote this:
rustled wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 12:10 pm Attempting to re-manipulate these Albertans into supporting more of the same emotional, feel-good "thinking" that created today's problems with new "save the planet from neo-liberalism" messaging that seeks to deflect from reality may not prove particularly successful.
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Re: Alberta

Post by rustled »

Ka-El wrote: Jan 26th, 2022, 11:42 am
rustled wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 5:18 pm If I've misinterpreted what you meant to imply, then perhaps you'll take some responsibility and explain to all of us what you really meant to imply when you wrote this:
  • "You overestimate the importance of our discussion board. It would be delusional to think we are manipulating Albertans into supporting anything."
I simply responded to your post inferring someone was manipulating Albertans.
If I've misinterpreted what you meant to imply, then perhaps you'll take some responsibility and explain to all of us what you really meant to imply when you wrote this:
rustled wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 12:10 pm Attempting to re-manipulate these Albertans into supporting more of the same emotional, feel-good "thinking" that created today's problems with new "save the planet from neo-liberalism" messaging that seeks to deflect from reality may not prove particularly successful.
I wasn't merely inferring "someone has been manipulating Albertans". Implying and inferring is for those who prefer not to come right out and say what they mean - a rather pointless tactic, IMO.

I've been quite clear in stating manipulative messaging HAS been employed by governments and activists and ideologues to promote support for their agendas - in Alberta and elsewhere. If anyone prefers to pretend otherwise, that's their prerogative.

Albertans, like the rest of us, are becoming more aware of how emotional, feel-good "thinking" has been used to manipulate people into supporting public policies pitched to "save the planet from climate change", etc., too many of which have turned out to be all hat, no cattle.

Seems likely Albertans, like the rest of us, are capable of seeing the messaging around "save the planet from neo-liberalism" is all-hat-no-cattle, too.
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Re: Alberta

Post by Pappywinkle »

rustled wrote: Jan 26th, 2022, 12:45 pm I've been quite clear in stating manipulative messaging HAS been employed by governments and activists and ideologues to promote support for their agendas - in Alberta and elsewhere. If anyone prefers to pretend otherwise, that's their prerogative.
This is definitely true of the disastrously incompetent UCP under crooked Kenney, which is yet another reason his disgusting party will be kicked to the curb in the next election.
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