Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Catri
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by Catri »

The Green Barbarian wrote: Nov 19th, 2021, 7:59 pm
Catri wrote: Nov 19th, 2021, 1:18 pm
It will be interesting to see how the MPs that voted against the last bill, ostensibly for it's imperfect wording, vote on this bill. Will MPs like Tracy Gray find another lame-o excuse to cover their homophobia
Tracy Gray isn't a Liberal, so why would she have to worry about homophobia? You really need to get more informed on which parties are the true homophobes. The CPC is doing a fantastic job fighting the homophobic Liberals. Great job Tracy!!
The Tories are rubber and Liberals are glue...rah rah CPC. Whatever.

There are some Conservatives who aren't as blinded by partisanship, that actually care what their MPs and their leader do and say, that's why this thread exists. It is genuinely interesting to watch the Harperites, the progressives and the blindly faithful CPC fanboys go through this process. That last group is particularly fascinating as that's who refuses to see Tracy Gray's so-con bigotry, but also supports the duplicitous O'Toole, in spite of his Liberal-lite policy positions. It makes me wonder if there's any conservative ideology there at all and whether they would end up throwing their support behind the erstwhile reformers or the old red Tories if and when that alliance finally breaks.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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Catri wrote: Nov 20th, 2021, 3:35 pm
The Green Barbarian wrote: Nov 19th, 2021, 7:59 pm Tracy Gray isn't a Liberal, so why would she have to worry about homophobia? You really need to get more informed on which parties are the true homophobes. The CPC is doing a fantastic job fighting the homophobic Liberals. Great job Tracy!!
The Tories are rubber and Liberals are glue...rah rah CPC. Whatever.

There are some Conservatives who aren't as blinded by partisanship, that actually care what their MPs and their leader do and say, that's why this thread exists. It is genuinely interesting to watch the Harperites, the progressives and the blindly faithful CPC fanboys go through this process. That last group is particularly fascinating as that's who refuses to see Tracy Gray's so-con bigotry, but also supports the duplicitous O'Toole, in spite of his Liberal-lite policy positions. It makes me wonder if there's any conservative ideology there at all and whether they would end up throwing their support behind the erstwhile reformers or the old red Tories if and when that alliance finally breaks.
Well said.

:up: :up: :up:
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by erinmore3775 »

The true test of Mr O'Toole's leadership will occur during the next 48 hours of Parliament. If he has the true metal to be Prime Minister will be shown as his Opposition members take their places in Parliament. Federal and Ontario provincial mandates require that all those who participate in Otawa's public Parliament must be vaccinated.

https://health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/program ... nation.pdf

https://www.canada.ca/en/government/pub ... ments.html

Approximately 5 in 100,000 people medically qualify for a mandated vaccine exemption. Therefore 5 to 8 elected members of CPC Opposition possibly claiming a medical vaccine exemption would be suspect. It would also severely reduce the credibility of the Opposition if this number of Opposition seek legitimate exemptions. The simple solution, hybrid Parliament. However, Mr O'Toole has opposed this solution. Without this solution, Parliament stalls over procedural issues not related to government bills regulating our economy, social and fiscal policy, and COVID related issues.

Mr O'Toole has a choice, pander to a small minority of CPC supporters or recognize the greater needs of Canada and get on with the business of offering Canadians a dynamic and effective Opposition. Whatever his decision it is time for ERIN to GO! GO! GO!
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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It is easy to fixate on the leader of a party, in part because who the party chooses for leader is a reflection of the party ethos.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politic ... se-theres/

"Usually, when there is a move afoot to eject a leader, their replacement is either leading the insurrection or waiting to see if it succeeds. Brian Mulroney manoeuvring to unseat Progressive Conservative leader Joe Clark in the 1980s; Paul Martin forcing Jean Chrétien out as Liberal prime minister two decades ago; Michael Ignatieff ready to replace Stéphane Dion as Liberal leader in 2008.

But no one is available to replace Mr. O’Toole. Finance critic Pierre Poilievre might or might not run if there is a leadership race, but he turned down an opportunity to run in 2020 because of family commitments. Those commitments remain. In any case, he is not behind the effort to bring down Mr. O’Toole.

Senior figures from the Stephen Harper years – former cabinet ministers John Baird and James Moore; former interim leader Rona Ambrose – don’t appear to want the job."

SNIP

"Not only is there no obvious person available to replace Mr. O’Toole, there is no obvious idea, either, no stream of political thought that Mr. O’Toole rejects but that could take the party to victory."

SNIP

"Mr. O’Toole is criticized for being weak and inauthentic – a political chameleon who changes his spots to suit his audience, a leader who can neither convince his caucus and party to follow him nor suppress the inevitable dissent. This criticism is fair."


Yup, a "leader" who rejects what his party had democratically decided on as policy is bound to be weak and inauthentic. You can't have a very public leadership campaign of "true blue" and then campaign as "Trudeau-lite" and be authentic - or trustworthy. Nor can you pretend to have a robust GHG reduction plan when your party votes to reject the idea that climate change is real.

Mr. Ibbitson seems to hold out the hope that Mr. O'Toole can grow as a leader, but that train has left the station. The voters have Mr. O'Toole's identity firmly established as a "political chameleon" - and that means untrustworthy. The party membership was never very happy with Mr. O'Toole - his approval ratings in Alberta trailed even Mr. Trudeau for a while and were well behind Mr. Singh.

The CPC may indeed be stuck with Mr. O'Toole for a while. (Just as the Liberals were stuck with the likes of Dion and Ignatieff). Hopefully someone, or some group within the CPC can begin the process of building a new party consensus for the challenges of this century - and then from that process a new, authentic, believable and trustworthy leader will emerge.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by erinmore3775 »

For those who watched the CPAC Coverage of the election of the House of Commons Speaker. What was noticeable was the eight empty seats ( there could have been more but view was limited by camera angles) in the area occupied by the CPC Opposition members. It would appear that some CPC members could not enter the House for some reason or other.

Mr O'Toole during his welcoming message demonstrated leadership and a dedication to representing all Canadians. He was loudly supported by his members. Time will tell if that support lasts more than a day. Hopefully, the CPC can remain unified enough to provide a substantial and credible criticism.

Mr. Blanchet did insist that all members on the Parliament be fully vaccinated. This will be an interesting session since the battle lines seem to have been drawn. The Speech from themThrone tomorrow,
.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by The Green Barbarian »

Hello Reg,

Parliament has (finally) returned. It’s been months since elected Members have sat in the people’s House. And in that time, we’ve seen no shortage of crises and important work get ignored by the Trudeau Liberals.

From day one of my leadership, I committed to you, and all Canadians, that our team will be relentlessly focused on the job at hand – holding the Liberals accountable, getting our economy back on track, and healing the division in this country caused by the politics of Justin Trudeau.

Anything short of that focus is simply not acceptable to me.

We have a strong team of dedicated members of the Conservative caucus ready to take the fight to the Liberals on the issues that matter, and each one of us know our focus and attention needs to be on the everyday things that affect you and your family.

With the economy struggling, housing becoming more unaffordable, inflation at an 18 year high, supply chain disruptions, and a widespread natural disaster in British Columbia, I’m not going to be asking you for a donation today.

While the work we do as a party comes at significant financial cost, and as the year comes to a close after an expensive and unnecessary election called by Trudeau, you will hear from our team about what you can do to help us – today though, I just wanted to update you on the work our Conservative team is actually doing rather than the headlines you might read, pushed by those that would rather disrupt that work than let us focus on the work ahead.

What will you hear from us? You’ll hear Pierre Poilievre hold the Liberals accountable on the growing inflation leaving less money on your paycheque. You’ll hear Michelle Rempel outline the attacks on our natural resource jobs from an ideological Justin Trudeau. You’ll hear John Brassard staying busy just trying to keep up with the latest ethical failing from the Trudeau Liberals. And Raquel Dancho and Rob Moore will take charge on the growing crime problem under this government’s watch.

Plus so many other strong, passionate Conservative members holding the Liberals accountable whether it’s on censorship, national unity or the “Ottawa knows best approach” to everything they do.

And me? I’m not ever going to let Justin Trudeau off the hook for his disastrous economic management.

If he thinks he didn’t enjoy Question Period before, just wait until he has to face off against our team again.

That’s the important work we’re going to be doing. And while the Liberals and their friends will do everything they can to distract us from that, my message to them is simple – you won’t.

There is too much at stake. There are too many things going wrong in this country. Our entire Conservative team is focused on ensuring the Liberals no longer get a free ride.

The Liberals have divided this country. Conservatives will unite it.

Justin Trudeau has failed our economy. I will secure it again.

On behalf of our entire Conservative caucus, thank you for everything you do for our movement.

Sincerely,
Erin O’Toole
Leader of Canada’s Conservatives
What a great leader, doing such a fantastic job. Keep up the great work Erin!
Epistemic insouciance is a casual lack of concern about the facts or an indifference to whether one's statements have any basis in reality. From now on the Liberal Party of Canada will be known as the "Epistemic Insouciance Party of Canada".
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by Pappywinkle »

erinmore3775 wrote: Nov 22nd, 2021, 2:13 pm For those who watched the CPAC Coverage of the election of the House of Commons Speaker. What was noticeable was the eight empty seats ( there could have been more but view was limited by camera angles) in the area occupied by the CPC Opposition members. It would appear that some CPC members could not enter the House for some reason or other.

Mr O'Toole during his welcoming message demonstrated leadership and a dedication to representing all Canadians. He was loudly supported by his members. Time will tell if that support lasts more than a day. Hopefully, the CPC can remain unified enough to provide a substantial and credible criticism.

Mr. Blanchet did insist that all members on the Parliament be fully vaccinated. This will be an interesting session since the battle lines seem to have been drawn. The Speech from themThrone tomorrow,
.
Yup, just another example of O’Toole’s complete and total failure to lead. O’Toole has done a great job making the CPC the laughing stock of Canadian politics and is a true embarrassment to right wingers everywhere.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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I’m not sure what’s funnier about O’Toole’s crumbling CPC - the fact that he still calls himself a leader or that there are O’Toole supporters swooning over love letters from their disgraced and incompetent leader.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by hobbyguy »

The Green Barbarian wrote: Nov 22nd, 2021, 4:10 pm
Hello Reg,

Parliament has (finally) returned. It’s been months since elected Members have sat in the people’s House. And in that time, we’ve seen no shortage of crises and important work get ignored by the Trudeau Liberals.

From day one of my leadership, I committed to you, and all Canadians, that our team will be relentlessly focused on the job at hand – holding the Liberals accountable, getting our economy back on track, and healing the division in this country caused by the politics of Justin Trudeau.

Anything short of that focus is simply not acceptable to me.

We have a strong team of dedicated members of the Conservative caucus ready to take the fight to the Liberals on the issues that matter, and each one of us know our focus and attention needs to be on the everyday things that affect you and your family.

With the economy struggling, housing becoming more unaffordable, inflation at an 18 year high, supply chain disruptions, and a widespread natural disaster in British Columbia, I’m not going to be asking you for a donation today.

While the work we do as a party comes at significant financial cost, and as the year comes to a close after an expensive and unnecessary election called by Trudeau, you will hear from our team about what you can do to help us – today though, I just wanted to update you on the work our Conservative team is actually doing rather than the headlines you might read, pushed by those that would rather disrupt that work than let us focus on the work ahead.

What will you hear from us? You’ll hear Pierre Poilievre hold the Liberals accountable on the growing inflation leaving less money on your paycheque. You’ll hear Michelle Rempel outline the attacks on our natural resource jobs from an ideological Justin Trudeau. You’ll hear John Brassard staying busy just trying to keep up with the latest ethical failing from the Trudeau Liberals. And Raquel Dancho and Rob Moore will take charge on the growing crime problem under this government’s watch.

Plus so many other strong, passionate Conservative members holding the Liberals accountable whether it’s on censorship, national unity or the “Ottawa knows best approach” to everything they do.

And me? I’m not ever going to let Justin Trudeau off the hook for his disastrous economic management.

If he thinks he didn’t enjoy Question Period before, just wait until he has to face off against our team again.

That’s the important work we’re going to be doing. And while the Liberals and their friends will do everything they can to distract us from that, my message to them is simple – you won’t.

There is too much at stake. There are too many things going wrong in this country. Our entire Conservative team is focused on ensuring the Liberals no longer get a free ride.

The Liberals have divided this country. Conservatives will unite it.

Justin Trudeau has failed our economy. I will secure it again.

On behalf of our entire Conservative caucus, thank you for everything you do for our movement.

Sincerely,
Erin O’Toole
Leader of Canada’s Conservatives
What a great leader, doing such a fantastic job. Keep up the great work Erin!
What a load of malarkey from the Noriega wannabe wee Erin!

80% of Canadians support vaccine mandates - but not the cowardly O'Toole.

80% of Canadians support stronger guns laws, but not the cowardly O'Toole.

75% of Canadians support LGBTQ rights, but not the regressive CPC under O'Toole the waffler

77% of Canadians support a woman's right to choose, but not the regressive CPC under O'Toole the waffler.

71% of Canadians want strong actions on man made climate change, but not the regressive CPC under O'Toole the waffler.

Who is the real divisive person and party - why O'Toole and the CPC who are constantly on the backward side of history, science and logic. The whole thing with the CPC is that it has become a collection of mixed nuts.
Last edited by hobbyguy on Nov 22nd, 2021, 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by nucksRnum1 »

hobbyguy wrote: Nov 22nd, 2021, 5:14 pm
The Green Barbarian wrote: Nov 22nd, 2021, 4:10 pm

What a great leader, doing such a fantastic job. Keep up the great work Erin!
What a load of malarkey from the Noriega wannabe wee Erin!

80% of Canadians support vaccine mandates - but not the cowardly O'Toole.

80% of Canadians support stronger guns laws, but not the cowardly O'Toole.

75% of Canadians support LGBTQ rights, but not the regressive CPC under O'Toole the waffler

77% of Canadians support a woman's right to choose, but not the regressive CPC under O'Toole the waffler.

71% of Canadians want strong actions on man made climate change, but not the regressive CPC under O'Toole the waffler.

Who is real divisive person and party - why O'Toole and the CPC who are constantly on the backward side of history, science and logic. The whole thing with the CPC is that it has become a collection of mixed nuts.
Great points. I feel like right-wingers are taking crazy pills.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by The Green Barbarian »

hobbyguy wrote: Nov 22nd, 2021, 5:14 pm
What a load of malarkey from the Noriega wannabe wee Erin!
Actually, this was not a load of Malarkey, and not sure what the "Noriega" comment is all about, but I'm sure it's something childish and asinine so not going to bother caring too much.

Erin is doing a fantastic job - and he's not "wee" either. He's a great leader, and leading an amazing party. Go Erin!!
Epistemic insouciance is a casual lack of concern about the facts or an indifference to whether one's statements have any basis in reality. From now on the Liberal Party of Canada will be known as the "Epistemic Insouciance Party of Canada".
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by Pappywinkle »

Things just keep getting worse for the disgraced and defeated Erin O’Toole. Just one day back in parliament and the CPC is already showcasing how fractured and rudderless it’s become under O’Toole’s failed leadership.
Tory vaccination status in spotlight after MP tests positive on eve of new Parliament

Concern over the vaccination status of Conservative MPs was front and centre on the eve of a new session of Parliament after one of them tested positive for COVID-19.

Quebec MP Richard Lehoux's diagnosis added urgency to the push by Liberals and New Democrats to continue with a hybrid format in the House of Commons, which would give MPs the option of participating in proceedings virtually.

And it prompted government House leader Mark Holland to suggest Sunday that the Commons needs to adopt a system for verifying the validity of medical exemptions claimed by an unknown number of Conservative MPs.

Conservative Leader Erin O'Toole has said he and all his 118 MPs will be in the House when it returns Monday, either because they're fully vaccinated against COVID-19 or because they have a medical exemption. He has repeatedly refused to say how many are not fully immunized.
..
Given the Conservatives' mixed views on vaccination, Holland suggested the party can't be trusted to police its MPs who claim a medical exemption.

"I'm deeply uncomfortable with their circumstance," Holland said in an interview Sunday.

He said public health experts estimate that one to five people out of 100,000 would have valid medical reasons not to get vaccinated. Thus, he said it's hard to believe there would be multiple Conservatives out of a group of just 119 MPs who would have legitimate exemptions.

That would be "the equivalent of winning the Lotto 6/49 six times. It just is statistically utterly improbable," he said.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/tory-v ... -1.5675274
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by TheLiteralKingofEngland »

Why does O’Toole’s letter to Reg mention censorship? Buzz-word?
Erin O’Toole is a blight on our great country.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by TheLiteralKingofEngland »

The Green Barbarian wrote: Nov 22nd, 2021, 5:33 pm
hobbyguy wrote: Nov 22nd, 2021, 5:14 pm
What a load of malarkey from the Noriega wannabe wee Erin!
Actually, this was not a load of Malarkey, and not sure what the "Noriega" comment is all about, but I'm sure it's something childish and asinine so not going to bother caring too much.

Erin is doing a fantastic job - and he's not "wee" either. He's a great leader, and leading an amazing party. Go Erin!!
Erin’s party includes a person who thinks she’s Rosa Parks because she’s tweeting lies and bunk about vaccinations. You’d think even hardcore conservatives would want to distance themselves from trying to callously rewrite the history of black rights, but no.
Erin O’Toole is a blight on our great country.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by hobbyguy »

The Green Barbarian wrote: Nov 22nd, 2021, 5:33 pm
hobbyguy wrote: Nov 22nd, 2021, 5:14 pm
What a load of malarkey from the Noriega wannabe wee Erin!
Actually, this was not a load of Malarkey, and not sure what the "Noriega" comment is all about, but I'm sure it's something childish and asinine so not going to bother caring too much.

Erin is doing a fantastic job - and he's not "wee" either. He's a great leader, and leading an amazing party. Go Erin!!
Here's answer to your question regarding the Noriega reference: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... he-leader/

There’s a word for a system that demands unanimous support for the leader, and it isn’t democracy

The dilemma facing the Conservative leader – the dilemma facing any Conservative leader – is familiar. To win the party leadership, you have to have one set of policies. To win the country you have to have another.

Erin O’Toole’s solution to this dilemma was equally familiar. To bridge the gap between party and public, he simply promised them each different things, hoping the first would not mind and the second would not notice. And indeed, had the public not noticed, and Mr. O’Toole been elected, the party would probably not have minded, much. Power is the ultimate sedative.

Alas, you can only push this so far. The contradictions – between pricing carbon and not pricing it, banning automatic weapons and not banning them, and so on – were too glaring. Eventually the country got wise; then the party got mad. A leader who sacrificed principle for power might be forgiven, as might a leader who sacrificed power for principle. But a leader who sacrificed both, for nothing – who sold them out and still lost? That’s a hard thing to survive.

Hence Mr. O’Toole’s latest persona: neither the angry ideologue of the leadership race nor the smiling pragmatist of the election, but the hardened autocrat, practised dealer in the harsher sort of power politics, willing to do whatever it takes to hold onto his office.

SNIP

"Conservatives are united only by the belief that someone else should not be in power. It should not be entirely surprising to find that principle applied within their own ranks.

A strong leader, or at least a realistic one, does not insist on unanimous shows of support. Unanimity is not found in democracies (although it is found in the Liberal caucus, which last week voted unanimously not to arm itself with any of the Reform Act’s four powers), and in any case support is usually best offered rather than demanded.

If Mr. O’Toole feels he has the support of the party, he has no need to hide from its judgment. He should welcome a review of his leadership, and the sooner the better. Or if he does not have the support of the party, why is he still leader?"

That's Andrew Coyne's take.

And yup, "wee Erin" is indeed apropos, the guy is hopelessly lost among the CPC party of mixed nuts.
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