Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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The Green Barbarian
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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nucksRnum1 wrote: Oct 13th, 2021, 10:55 pm

Wait.....so a drop in the bucket forgiving student loans is bad....
Drop in the bucket? Total student loans outstanding in Canada are $22 billion as per my googling. This is not a "drop in the bucket". See, this is the demagoguery that HG was talking about, the total prevarication from the Left, that is ultimately going to be their downfall. Enough demagoguery like this, it's just looking so bad on the CPC's opponents!
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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hobbyguy wrote: Oct 14th, 2021, 8:32 am
When O'Toole "won" the rigged leadership campaign,
This literally didn't happen. O'Toole won, but calling the campaign "rigged" is just demagoguery, pure and simple.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#348551

Now the Conservatives are suspending their own members over leadership reviews?
Not surprised.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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Brerrabbit18 wrote: Oct 14th, 2021, 9:50 amNow the Conservatives are suspending their own members over leadership reviews?
Not surprised.
Hmmm. Can you say "mutiny" ?
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conser ... -1.6210552

The cracks in the facade of the unity of the Conservative Party of Canada continue to grow. These cracks threaten not only party unity, but the effectiveness of Mr. O'Toole as Leader of the Opposition in Parliament.

"A member of the Conservative Party of Canada's national council has been suspended after spearheading an effort to trigger an early review of Erin O'Toole's leadership.

Bert Chen sat as a representative from Ontario when he started an online petition to collect signatures in hopes the council would hold a referendum before 2023".


However, he is not the only one who is publically questioning the CPC leadership. Over 5,000 members signed his petition requesting a review of the Party's election platform and the running of the election under Mr. O'Toole. While Mr. O'Toole says he has the support of all 118 members of his caucus, there seems to be one member that is willing to publicly voice her dissatisfaction.

"Alberta MP Shannon Stubbs is the lone voice of the group to publicly call for the party's grassroots to be able to vote on his leadership within the next six months, instead of having to wait until the next national convention in 2023.

Stubbs has said she wants to know from O'Toole what he meant when he said on election night that Conservatives needed the courage to change. She said members should have a direct say on amending party policies and values."


It is clear that the CPC ran a very disjointed campaign with numerous flip-flops on platforms and a nebulous fiscal message. It is no wonder that they failed to gain traction in the urban centers and even lost support in the west. Even though they had the initial momentum, in the early stages of the election campaign, they failed to gain a majority of the seats in Parliament. They lost that opportunity and now they appear to be losing the ability to function as united parliamentary opposition.

It is time that the CPC re-examined its purpose and function. It can return to its progressive conservative roots and become a big tent party, which will embrace fiscally responsible social values or it can continue to embrace its cancerous ultra-right fringe. The latter means it will remain a splinter party. The former means it will truly become a big tent party capable of garnering support from voters in all parts of Canada.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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I wonder how many PPC votes came from CPC defectors ? If the CPC candidate in my riding had gotten the votes that went to the PPC, she would have had a 1000 vote edge on the NDP who won.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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fluffy wrote: Oct 14th, 2021, 10:31 am I wonder how many PPC votes came from CPC defectors ? If the CPC candidate in my riding had gotten the votes that went to the PPC, she would have had a 1000 vote edge on the NDP who won.
There were more than a few ridings that went to Liberal or NDP candidates because of the PPC bleeding votes away from the Conservatives. In the long run it might be best for the CPC that this fracture continues. They need to get rid of the hard right extremists still within the party that essentially sabotaged any hope for O'Toole winning this last election, and will thwart the effort of any CPC leadership hopeful in becoming PM in any election anytime in the near future. People are beginning to recognize the downfalls of extremist thinking and wanting to move back closer to the centre, and the delusional ramblings ("we won!") of hard-right conservatives are as far from centre and as irrelevant as their far-left socialist counterparts.
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crookedmember
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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The cracks keep getting bigger.

This should be a no-brainer for a leader during a pandemic. But Elmer Fudd has to "grapple" with it.


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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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erinmore3775 wrote: Oct 14th, 2021, 10:04 am https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conser ... -1.6210552

The cracks in the facade of the unity of the Conservative Party of Canada continue to grow. These cracks threaten not only party unity, but the effectiveness of Mr. O'Toole as Leader of the Opposition in Parliament.

"A member of the Conservative Party of Canada's national council has been suspended after spearheading an effort to trigger an early review of Erin O'Toole's leadership.

Bert Chen sat as a representative from Ontario when he started an online petition to collect signatures in hopes the council would hold a referendum before 2023".


However, he is not the only one who is publically questioning the CPC leadership. Over 5,000 members signed his petition requesting a review of the Party's election platform and the running of the election under Mr. O'Toole. While Mr. O'Toole says he has the support of all 118 members of his caucus, there seems to be one member that is willing to publicly voice her dissatisfaction.

"Alberta MP Shannon Stubbs is the lone voice of the group to publicly call for the party's grassroots to be able to vote on his leadership within the next six months, instead of having to wait until the next national convention in 2023.

Stubbs has said she wants to know from O'Toole what he meant when he said on election night that Conservatives needed the courage to change. She said members should have a direct say on amending party policies and values."


It is clear that the CPC ran a very disjointed campaign with numerous flip-flops on platforms and a nebulous fiscal message. It is no wonder that they failed to gain traction in the urban centers and even lost support in the west. Even though they had the initial momentum, in the early stages of the election campaign, they failed to gain a majority of the seats in Parliament. They lost that opportunity and now they appear to be losing the ability to function as united parliamentary opposition.

It is time that the CPC re-examined its purpose and function. It can return to its progressive conservative roots and become a big tent party, which will embrace fiscally responsible social values or it can continue to embrace its cancerous ultra-right fringe. The latter means it will remain a splinter party. The former means it will truly become a big tent party capable of garnering support from voters in all parts of Canada.
The roots of the current CPC lie in the Reform party, not the old Progressive Conservatives.

Those Reform roots start with Preston Manning (the founder of the Reform party), and he is still a big factor in conservative politics - shaping many viewpoints. Manning has been called "the father of modern Canadian Conservatism".

To understand those roots, it is important to consider Preston Manning the person, and that brings in Ernest Manning (his father) the former premier of Alberta (1943-1968) who succeeded "Bible Bill" Aberhart - also a Social Credit premier. Ernest Manning, while premier of Alberta, often appeared as a speaker on the 'Back to the Bible Hour" radio show. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Manning

The base of Reform party was built by Preston Manning, Preston Manning himself has Social Credit roots. He ran in federal politics in 1965 as Social Credit candidate (did not get elected). The Alberta Social Credit party adopted a somewhat different stance than other Social Credit parties - and that influence is pretty obvious in the principles and politics of the Reform Party that stormed onto the scene in 1993 as the old PC party imploded.

So in essence, the real roots of the current CPC lie not in the old PC party, but in the old Social Credit party - and more specifically in the flavor of the old Alberta Social Credit party.

That is an important distinction as there were parts of the old Alberta Social Party that explain parts of the difficulties that the CPC faces in places like Quebec. Specifically, the Alberta Social Credit folks had a strong distrust of Catholics - which contributed to the lack of success of the one time federal Social Credit leader Real Caouette. Bear in mind that the federal Social Credit party was founded by "Bible Bill" Aberhart.

So when O'Toole wanders off into "red Tory" land with policy proposals (however inauthentic) that are antithetic to that old Socred ethos, it exposes an old tectonic fault.

MP Stubbs is essentially saying what I would espouse, that the membership of the party should be the ones determining the party platform, not the top down "flavor of the month" type thing that O'Toole brought forth in 2021.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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hobbyguy wrote: Oct 14th, 2021, 11:08 amMP Stubbs is essentially saying what I would espouse, that the membership of the party should be the ones determining the party platform, not the top down "flavor of the month" type thing that O'Toole brought forth in 2021.
Fair in principle, but to be successful it would require the entire membership to get on board with the results of the vote. Given what we've seen so far that's a big "if". On that same token, I have to question that if O'Toole had won the election, how much cooperation would he have gotten from within the party on instituting the changes he proposed while campaigning.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by Ka-El »

fluffy wrote:
hobbyguy wrote:MP Stubbs is essentially saying what I would espouse, that the membership of the party should be the ones determining the party platform, not the top down "flavor of the month" type thing that O'Toole brought forth in 2021.
Fair in principle, but to be successful it would require the entire membership to get on board with the results of the vote. Given what we've seen so far that's a big "if". On that same token, I have to question that if O'Toole had won the election, how much cooperation would he have gotten from within the party on instituting the changes he proposed while campaigning.
The party might as well fracture in two with the moderates and extremists forming their own parties. This will initially split the right vote, but if the Conservatives ever want to govern they are going to have to present a much more centrist and moderate platform, and Canadians are going to have to be able to trust that their leader has the backing of the entire party.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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crookedmember wrote: Oct 14th, 2021, 10:57 am But Elmer Fudd has to "grapple" with it.
Who is Elmer Fudd?
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