Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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erinmore3775
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by erinmore3775 »

Well said, Ka-EL

The party might as well fracture in two with the moderates and extremists forming their own parties. This will initially split the right vote, but if the Conservatives ever want to govern they are going to have to present a much more centrist and moderate platform, and Canadians are going to have to be able to trust that their leader has the backing of the entire party.

You have said exactly what is necessary for the CPC to gain enough votes from the "undecided" electorate to form a government.
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bob vernon
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by bob vernon »

When should Parliament be recalled? As soon as possible. We have to out these Conservative anti-vaxxers.
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by The Green Barbarian »

bob vernon wrote: Oct 14th, 2021, 2:42 pm When should Parliament be recalled? As soon as possible. We have to out these Conservative anti-vaxxers.
And then do what exactly? This is demagoguery at its finest.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by hobbyguy »

Ka-El wrote: Oct 14th, 2021, 11:45 am
fluffy wrote:
Fair in principle, but to be successful it would require the entire membership to get on board with the results of the vote. Given what we've seen so far that's a big "if". On that same token, I have to question that if O'Toole had won the election, how much cooperation would he have gotten from within the party on instituting the changes he proposed while campaigning.
The party might as well fracture in two with the moderates and extremists forming their own parties. This will initially split the right vote, but if the Conservatives ever want to govern they are going to have to present a much more centrist and moderate platform, and Canadians are going to have to be able to trust that their leader has the backing of the entire party.
The political reality of not being able to form government is not disqualifying for any party.

The Bloc makes no attempt to do so, yet does very well by consistently representing their views as the party base membership perceives it.

The NDP have never formed government, yet their mostly consistent expression of what their grassroots base perceives as policy priorities has both kept them continually relevant and influential. The CCF (later NDP) advocated for CPP pensions, universal health care and many other things that are fundamental to Canadian society today. It is hard not to see their influence in Canada today and through their history. It matters not that the NDP have never been "mainstream" enough to form the government.

The tiny Green party have no chance of forming government in Canada. Yet they have not been irrelevant to significant discussions about our future as Canadians.

In essence, what I am saying is that the Reform party was influential in Canada, and did so while truly representing their constituency base.

The desire by pols to "win" ought not over ride the value of party being true to itself and being directed by its grassroots. If a party is NOT directed by its grassroots, then how can it claim a place in out democracy?? Yes, you can have leaders, such as Singh, who tell the base "listen, that policy needs more work and will not be part of the platform this go round" - but what doesn't work for anyone is when the party leader introduces platform planks that are the opposite of what the grassroots voted on - which is entirely undemocratic.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by bob vernon »

The Green Barbarian wrote: Oct 14th, 2021, 3:01 pm
bob vernon wrote: Oct 14th, 2021, 2:42 pm When should Parliament be recalled? As soon as possible. We have to out these Conservative anti-vaxxers.
And then do what exactly? This is demagoguery at its finest.
All that needs to be done is to recall Parliament, but allow the non-vaxxed to participate on Zoom. I wouldn't want to be the desk-mate of one of these nuts. Just the fact that they won't get their shots should be enough to further damage the Conservatives badly. Any day now, there will be a cavalcade of Albertan MPs carpooling down to Ottawa. I drove that once with a couple of friends in my younger days. It's just a blur of gas stations and Tim Hortons.
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crookedmember
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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bob vernon wrote: Oct 16th, 2021, 6:15 am

All that needs to be done is to recall Parliament, but allow the non-vaxxed to participate on Zoom. I wouldn't want to be the desk-mate of one of these nuts. Just the fact that they won't get their shots should be enough to further damage the Conservatives badly. Any day now, there will be a cavalcade of Albertan MPs carpooling down to Ottawa. I drove that once with a couple of friends in my younger days. It's just a blur of gas stations and Tim Hortons.
Elmer O'Toole wouldn't let these unvaccinated kooks get on a campaign plane or bus with him, so why would he let them sit in the House?

The real problem is the CPC leader has no spine.
Conservatives are dumb-dumbs.
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fluffy
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by fluffy »

hobbyguy wrote: Oct 14th, 2021, 4:36 pmThe desire by pols to "win" ought not over ride the value of party being true to itself and being directed by its grassroots. If a party is NOT directed by its grassroots, then how can it claim a place in out democracy?? Yes, you can have leaders, such as Singh, who tell the base "listen, that policy needs more work and will not be part of the platform this go round" - but what doesn't work for anyone is when the party leader introduces platform planks that are the opposite of what the grassroots voted on - which is entirely undemocratic.
In a perfect world a democratic process would establish by majority just what the "grassroots" feelings of the party are, and the lesser side would defer to the majority until the next vote comes around. But that is not in evidence within the CPC, there is a leader making apparently unilateral decisions, and there is open resistance to his leadership from within. The CPC world is far from perfect.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by nucksRnum1 »

If the Trudeau Liberals can ensure conservatives can not assemble without following mandates - some people will have to admit who truly is in power.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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fluffy wrote: Oct 14th, 2021, 10:31 am I wonder how many PPC votes came from CPC defectors ? If the CPC candidate in my riding had gotten the votes that went to the PPC, she would have had a 1000 vote edge on the NDP who won.
Eric Grenier did research on this... Only 30% of PPC voters voted Conservative in 2019. Another 30% didn't vote, and the rest came from the Liberals, NDP and Greens, so you'd have to take 30% of PPC votes to the conservatives and 10% to the NDP... Then recalculate the results.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by The Green Barbarian »

nucksRnum1 wrote: Oct 16th, 2021, 8:27 am If the Trudeau Liberals can ensure conservatives can not assemble without following mandates - some people will have to admit who truly is in power.
Jagmeet. We all know that.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by nucksRnum1 »

The Green Barbarian wrote: Oct 16th, 2021, 3:28 pm
nucksRnum1 wrote: Oct 16th, 2021, 8:27 am If the Trudeau Liberals can ensure conservatives can not assemble without following mandates - some people will have to admit who truly is in power.
Jagmeet. We all know that.
Indeed. Jags is gift wrapping the example of how to be an opposition to Otool. Create policy and get things passed bipartisanly. Something that will never happen if by some miracle conservatives win. It will be instant non-confidence and election.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by The Green Barbarian »

nucksRnum1 wrote: Oct 16th, 2021, 10:49 pm Jags is gift wrapping the example of how to be an opposition to Otool.
Who is "O'Toole"? This sentence makes no sense. "Jags" (whoever that is) is gift wrapping something for someone who doesn't exist? What??
Create policy and get things passed bipartisanly.
Which Justin hates, and which was why we just blew $600 million taxpayer dollars for nothing. "Jags" isn't gift-wrapping anything, he's just looking the fool by going along with insanely stupid Liberal policy and enabling their disgusting arrogance and stupidity.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by hobbyguy »

Another widening of the cracks. O'Toole comes out of hiding to say the CPC supports the vaccine mandate for MPs in parliament. Meanwhile "educated idiots" Richards and Strahl say the exact opposite....
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Pappywinkle
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by Pappywinkle »

hobbyguy wrote: Oct 22nd, 2021, 12:03 pm Another widening of the cracks. O'Toole comes out of hiding to say the CPC supports the vaccine mandate for MPs in parliament. Meanwhile "educated idiots" Richards and Strahl say the exact opposite....
Maxime Bernier is licking his chops at the thought of more deranged right wingers jumping from O'Toole's sinking, stinking ship.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

Post by LANDM »

The Green Barbarian wrote: Oct 17th, 2021, 9:25 am
Who is "O'Toole"? This sentence makes no sense. "Jags" (whoever that is) is gift wrapping something for someone who doesn't exist? What??
Some obviously need to brush up on Canadian politics before commenting in Canadian politics threads. :135:
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