No EI for the unvaccinated

hobbyguy
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by hobbyguy »

rustled wrote: Oct 24th, 2021, 9:37 am
hobbyguy wrote: Oct 24th, 2021, 9:25 amAnd so vaccine mandates become what a "reasonable person" would do, and a requirement of employment. Failure to comply becomes a reason for "just cause" dismissal - and EI status for the individual is "fired for cause" with all the ramifications that brings.
You're assuming the vaccinated aren't spreading the virus in their workplaces.

Those of us who know vaccinated people who brought home the virus to other members of their families know that's not the case.

Who decides what a reasonable person would do - is it what the majority chooses to do?

We'd likely find that in the opinion of the majority, it's unreasonable for the small-town pharmacist to be able to deny a woman the morning after pill based on his own moral preferences. The repercussions for that woman are significant. The pharmacist is allowed to make a moral determination that has nothing to do with his own physical well-being and everything to do with someone else's, and doesn't lose his job. He doesn't risk being dismissed for "just cause". He isn't scapegoated for acting on his own moral beliefs, regardless of how they impact someone else.

This mandate isn't about the health and safety of fellow employees.
Yes it is about health and safety. Employers must take all reasonable steps to protect the health and safety of their employees.

IF a person was convicted of being a pedophile and were in charge of a kindergarten, you would fire them. Yup, you just fired them for their individual "moral beliefs". Your inverse reasoning regarding "moral beliefs" is invalid.
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rustled
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by rustled »

fluffy wrote: Oct 24th, 2021, 10:13 am
rustled wrote: Oct 24th, 2021, 10:09 amThe government authorities have admitted the objective isn't workplace health and safety - it's to encourage more people to get vaccinated.
You say that like it's a bad thing. The best evidence available now says that vaccinating is our single best defense against the virus. Higher vax rates produce a safer workplace.
By what margin - enough to scapegoat and marginalize, to deny people their employment, to deny them their insurance?

We know a vaccinated person with covid can infect an entire family. There is no legitimate reason to believe a vaccinated person with covid can't infect their workplace.

IMO, being "okay" with denying "others" their livelihood and their insurance should require significant certainty it's necessary. We don't see that certainty here.
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crookedmember
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by crookedmember »

rustled wrote: Oct 24th, 2021, 9:59 am
We don't yet know enough to know how significantly, or for how long.


We do know vaccinations are working to prevent people from getting sick enough to end up in ICU and possibly dead. If at some point we need boosters, so what? We've been successfully handling annual flu shots for decades now.

Unfortunately, this is a war and we have to make decisions based on the best scientific information we have at this time, not decisions based on some gobbledegook some goof posted on facebook or youtube.
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by Bsuds »

hobbyguy wrote: Oct 24th, 2021, 9:25 am
And so vaccine mandates become what a "reasonable person" would do, and a requirement of employment. Failure to comply becomes a reason for "just cause" dismissal - and EI status for the individual is "fired for cause" with all the ramifications that brings.
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rustled
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by rustled »

hobbyguy wrote: Oct 24th, 2021, 10:17 am
rustled wrote: Oct 24th, 2021, 9:37 am

You're assuming the vaccinated aren't spreading the virus in their workplaces.

Those of us who know vaccinated people who brought home the virus to other members of their families know that's not the case.

Who decides what a reasonable person would do - is it what the majority chooses to do?

We'd likely find that in the opinion of the majority, it's unreasonable for the small-town pharmacist to be able to deny a woman the morning after pill based on his own moral preferences. The repercussions for that woman are significant. The pharmacist is allowed to make a moral determination that has nothing to do with his own physical well-being and everything to do with someone else's, and doesn't lose his job. He doesn't risk being dismissed for "just cause". He isn't scapegoated for acting on his own moral beliefs, regardless of how they impact someone else.

This mandate isn't about the health and safety of fellow employees.
Yes it is about health and safety. Employers must take all reasonable steps to protect the health and safety of their employees.

IF a person was convicted of being a pedophile and were in charge of a kindergarten, you would fire them. Yup, you just fired them for their individual "moral beliefs". Your inverse reasoning regarding "moral beliefs" is invalid.
Talk about scapegoating! You realize you've equated people who didn't get vaccinated with convicted pedophiles. There's nothing whatsoever about this comparison that any rational person would see as moral, valid, or logical.

With what we currently know about vaccinated people infecting their families with covid, I doubt employers would be able to prove it's reasonable to fire unvaccinated people. We'll see.
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by PoplarSoul »

crookedmember wrote: Oct 24th, 2021, 10:18 am
rustled wrote: Oct 24th, 2021, 9:59 am We don't yet know enough to know how significantly, or for how long.
We do know vaccinations are working to prevent people from getting sick enough to end up in ICU and possibly dead. If at some point we need boosters, so what? We've been successfully handling annual flu shots for decades now.

Unfortunately, this is a war and we have to make decisions based on the best scientific information we have at this time, not decisions based on some gobbledegook some goof posted on facebook or youtube.
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crookedmember
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by crookedmember »

hobbyguy wrote: Oct 24th, 2021, 10:17 am

Yes it is about health and safety. Employers must take all reasonable steps to protect the health and safety of their employees.

Yup.

I wish I knew why some people think the rights of the 5% or so who refuse to get vaccinated trump the rights of 95% of us to work in a safe as possible environment.
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by sobrohusfat »

... so, intentionally removing their ability to support their family for whatever limited time, while they transition to whatever else they're going to do instead, is not logical, but it does give us a glimpse at the real end-game. it's either stupid - or it's deliberately malicious.

The one good part of all this, is getting a clear demonstration of who we really are here - and what we're capable of.
Still just people gradually manipulated into every "justified" evil, just like any other people - at any other time in history.

Take the shame, NO voters. lol

...i know you won't tho;
they can freeze in the dark and starve.


The adventure continues...

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normaM
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by normaM »

So should they have to pay back CRB too.. since they had no intention of being vaxxed should one become available?
I guess if you back someone into a tight enough corner they will bend to your wishes
If they aren't going to give the EI then they should do a repayment of the EI ( not that it is anything taken compared to what is drawn)
Are they going to halt the SA programs as well?
seems all to draconian to me
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crookedmember
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by crookedmember »

If only the unvaxxed had a free and easy way to fix their being shunned by employers trying to protect their vaxxed employees.

Gee, that's a real head scratcher.
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by Boosted632 »

crookedmember wrote: Oct 24th, 2021, 11:21 am
hobbyguy wrote: Oct 24th, 2021, 10:17 am

Yes it is about health and safety. Employers must take all reasonable steps to protect the health and safety of their employees.

Yup.

I wish I knew why some people think the rights of the 5% or so who refuse to get vaccinated trump the rights of 95% of us to work in a safe as possible environment.
I wish I knew why vaccinated people keep thinking they're not spreading it around does getting vaxxed cause some form of brain damage as well?
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by Sparki55 »

crookedmember wrote: Oct 24th, 2021, 11:58 am If only the unvaxxed had a free and easy way to fix their being shunned by employers trying to protect their vaxxed employees.

Gee, that's a real head scratcher.
Once you are vaccinated you are protected. Silly comment.
nucksRnum1
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by nucksRnum1 »

People need to take responsibility for their own principles and decisions. And you can get EI when you get fired. You just need a good explanation.
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by Ka-El »

nucksRnum1 wrote: People need to take responsibility for their own principles and decisions.
Indeed. All choices come with consequence, and crying about having to take responsibility for the consequence of your choice isn't about freedom. It's about adolescence.
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crookedmember
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by crookedmember »

Vaccines cause adults.

If you want to be childish and stupid, I really couldn't care less about you.
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