New Brunswick now provides grocery stores the option to prevent unvaccinated from entering

nucksRnum1
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Re: New Brunswick now provides grocery stores the option to prevent unvaccinated from entering

Post by nucksRnum1 »

rustled wrote: Dec 7th, 2021, 7:10 amThose of us who oppose mandates do not expect the unvaccinated to be accommodated.

We expect the mandates to be justified, which would require proof they are necessary - i.e., that there is no better way to protect people from getting covid.

We know the vaccinated spread covid, too, and the suppression of symptoms by the vaccine suggests the vaccinated are less likely to know they are infectious. Yet it's vaccination status and not infectious status that determines whether or not we can accompany a neighbour to the hospital, sit in a sporting arena, or dine out. And now, shop for groceries in-store.
You've reframed the "excuse". We live in a world where scientists could prove something to people to be true - and they would still be listening to the devil's advocate. Or their veterinarian. Or fox news. Or to anti-vax/anti-mask lazy boy physicians that tell people what they want to hear.
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mexi cali
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Re: New Brunswick now provides grocery stores the option to prevent unvaccinated from entering

Post by mexi cali »

That's like saying, your a terrible driver, so you should never drive. You might have or cause an accident.
"Take one for the Gipper" Not.
That's exactly what you should say to them.
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hobbyguy
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Re: New Brunswick now provides grocery stores the option to prevent unvaccinated from entering

Post by hobbyguy »

Well, by the time any stores take the NB government up on the option, it looks like the fraidy cat conspiracy theories will have to come with some new lines. Inhalable vaccines may be a reality - so no needle, no way to "inject a tracker" - and the hesitant who are afraid of needles will able to get vaccinated, so the anti-vax fools will have a smaller following.
The middle path - everything in moderation, and everything in its time and order.
rustled
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Re: New Brunswick now provides grocery stores the option to prevent unvaccinated from entering

Post by rustled »

erinmore3775 wrote: Dec 7th, 2021, 7:58 amWe all have choices and the freedom to make those choices, but with every choice their is a responsibility and a consequences. If your choice is not to be vaccinated, celebrate that choice. Just do not expect the rest of society to bend over backwards to accommodate your choice.
No one expects anyone to "bend over backwards to accommodate" the unvaccinated by allowing them to go shop in the grocery store. I was in a couple of them today, with no way of knowing the vaccine statuses of any of the other shoppers, and no "bending over" was required.

This silly reframing makes no sense, nor do the mandates. It's illogical to believe that telling someone without a vaccine to stay out while allowing anyone who may be infected to come in and shop is likely to reduce the spread.
Ideology...gives evil-doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination...[it] is the social theory which helps to make his actions seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes...
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nucksRnum1
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Re: New Brunswick now provides grocery stores the option to prevent unvaccinated from entering

Post by nucksRnum1 »

rustled wrote: Dec 7th, 2021, 3:57 pmThis silly reframing makes no sense, nor do the mandates.
Having measures and mandates that protect people we live around - doesn't have to make sense to obtuse people. Unfortunately for these obtuse people they are shouting at the rain and complaining no one takes them seriously.
Sparki55
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Re: New Brunswick now provides grocery stores the option to prevent unvaccinated from entering

Post by Sparki55 »

nucksRnum1 wrote: Dec 7th, 2021, 7:42 pm Having measures and mandates that protect people we live around - doesn't have to make sense to obtuse people. Unfortunately for these obtuse people they are shouting at the rain and complaining no one takes them seriously.
Please explain how a vaccinated person is unsafe by being in the same grocery store as an unvaccinated person.
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erinmore3775
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Re: New Brunswick now provides grocery stores the option to prevent unvaccinated from entering

Post by erinmore3775 »

There will always be those who will rail against any legal mandate or requirement.

- income taxes were supposed to be temporary and besides governments just waste the money
- amusement park height and weight mandates mandates are just silly, anyone should be allowed to ride the roller coaster whether they can be secured into the seat or not
- wearing a seatbelt in a car is silly, I should make the decision of whether to wear one or not, similarly I should not have to buckle up in an airplane
- I should be allowed to yell "FIRE!" in a movie theatre, after all I have freedom of speech

While each one of these mandates/requirements may be logically debated, they all have a similarity. They are all designed to provide the greatest safety benefit to the general population. While government spending sponsored by taxation may not always be supported by all citizens, programs like health care have helped all citizens. Seat belts under certain accident conditions may well cause injury or even death. However since their wearing was mandated, accidental deaths in automobiles have fallen.

None of the above mandates/requirements guarantee that all citizens will benefit from their implementations. They do provide the greatest possible good. COVID Vaccines cannot eliminate the disease. However, they can reduce its transmission and reduce the effects of the infection. Citizens have a choice in taking the vaccine. Those who choose not to take the vaccine must live with the responsibilities of their choice. They are being asked to reduce their social interactions and adopt certain accommodations. However, no matter how they frame their choice, they have had the freedom to make that choice. They just have to accept the consequences and responsibilities of their choice. After all, in the final charter frame, the taxing vaccination choice is just another safety belt for society but it is still your choice to buckle up/needle up or not.
"Justice will not come until those who are not injured are as indignant as those who are injured."
- Thucydides, Greek Philosopher

"You make a living by what you get; you make a life by what you give." - Winston Churchill
Sparki55
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Re: New Brunswick now provides grocery stores the option to prevent unvaccinated from entering

Post by Sparki55 »

erinmore3775 wrote: Dec 7th, 2021, 8:10 pm Those who choose not to take the vaccine must live with the responsibilities of their choice. They are being asked to reduce their social interactions and adopt certain accommodations. However, no matter how they frame their choice, they have had the freedom to make that choice. They just have to accept the consequences and responsibilities of their choice. After all, in the final charter frame, the taxing vaccination choice is just another safety belt for society but it is still your choice to buckle up/needle up or not.
Fair enough. We can choose to be apart of society or not, I get it.

So this mandate will definitely push some people to live off grid away from society. That's the starting point of a rebellion. Each mandate added to this will push more people away from society. Eventually there will be enough people not apart of society that a revolution will happen. If you don't believe me, you're ignorant of history.

Talk about freedom of choice all you want but it is fact that one cannot leave society and still live. No matter where you go you have to pay taxes. Nobody is allowed to live off the land anymore, so you either bow down or die.

If no further restrictions are added from here onward, what I'm speaking of will pause. Due note that history will repeat itself and more restrictions will be added until enough people say no more. Either that or the alternative is we all don't care what government does anymore and if that happens they will take until we have nothing left.

To anyone who thinks your fellow human has your best interest in them, think about how much you actually care about other people's opinions. It's clear you don't if you support current restrictions.
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Re: New Brunswick now provides grocery stores the option to prevent unvaccinated from entering

Post by tantor »

How long is this stupid vaccine argument going to last? It is now an absolute fact that the vaccine does not keep you from getting the virus! It is also and absolute fact that the vaccine does not keep you from infecting others or dying! Therefore this is not a vaccine. There are literally thousands of doctors, microbiologists, immunologists and virologists that are saying exactly this. You have to have your head planted firmly into the sand and only listen to the news to get your information to be this daft about where we are at this point.

Even with the ridiculously high amount of adverse events compared to all previous vaccines combined and all of the ridiculous censorship around the issue. The FDA just lost a court case a couple of weeks ago to have all vaccine research results sealed for 55 years! Thankfully they were struck down. I don't get what kind of spell people are under that makes them oblivious to the fact that these vaccines makers made the government allow them for the first time in history to not be able to be held liable for any and all harm cause by their product! You can use all of your stupid arguments, call me an antivaxxer and anything else you want and I will wear it as a badge of honor because with all of the information that is available now you would have to be brain dead or complicit to continue this argument.

This forum is chalked full of those who just parrot media doctor talking points and act like they are the final authority on the science. WHAT SCIENCE?!!!! Science allows for testing and research to be open and available to all! Something that has been blocked from all angles at any cost. Never the less the scientific community has got around this but they are still being threatened and blocked from releasing their papers and research to the public but not for much longer. Then this stupid argument will end and these forum scientists will slink into hiding and I am sure will never apologize for all the vitriol they have spewed. Everyone can contract and spread this virus vaccinated or not, so why not stop the bickering and put your differences aside and be a community again because there is enough division in the world without this senseless argument going on in perpetuity.

There are far tougher times ahead that will be only be harder if we are at each others throats.The judge that struck down the FDA told them that not only would they not be allowed to seal the research for 55 years, but that they now have to release 500 pages a month every month moving forward. i will provide the link here for the first document. this covers the first 90 days of testing and provides more than enough evidence that this should have been stopped immediately and never brought to market. It had already grossly exceeded the number of deaths that would have normally been allowed. This is direct from Pfizer via the FDA. So are you going to read this and still stick your head in the sand? Sorry but this evidence trumps anything health Canada or the media have told you period.

https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/20 ... rience.pdf

Keep in mind no other vaccine in history was allowed this many deaths and not be pulled from the market. I can only imagine what future releases will look like!
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fluffy
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Re: New Brunswick now provides grocery stores the option to prevent unvaccinated from entering

Post by fluffy »

tantor wrote: Dec 8th, 2021, 5:46 amIt is now an absolute fact that the vaccine does not keep you from getting the virus! It is also and absolute fact that the vaccine does not keep you from infecting others or dying!
But it is an absolute fact that your chances of getting infected or infecting others is reduced with the vaccine. So better to get it than not.
Never miss a good chance to shut up.
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Re: New Brunswick now provides grocery stores the option to prevent unvaccinated from entering

Post by tantor »

[qu-* it?ote=fluffy post_id=2930844 time=1638972343 user_id=12799]
tantor wrote: Dec 8th, 2021, 5:46 amIt is now an absolute fact that the vaccine does not keep you from getting the virus! It is also and absolute fact that the vaccine does not keep you from infecting others or dying!
But it is an absolute fact that your chances of getting infected or infecting others is reduced with the vaccine. So better to get it than not.
[/quote]

The latest research isn't showing that at all and did you not read the Pfizer study I provided the instance of a bad out come is far higher than it has been with any previous vaccine in history. If you had covid and overcome it and then had your antibodies te+sted and they test at the max of 250 did you know the government will not accept it?! This is science to them? If the premise for requiring you to vaccinate is to create antibodies then a natural antibody test exceeded requirements should most definitely qualify you! At least that is how science worked for a hundred years before covid.
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Re: New Brunswick now provides grocery stores the option to prevent unvaccinated from entering

Post by tantor »

Japan is a prime example when they first adopted the vaccine there case count kept rising exponentially so they backed away from the vaccine. They went from a case count of around 7000 down to around the 100 mark by adopting alternate early therapies and almost scrapping the vaccines all together.
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fluffy
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Re: New Brunswick now provides grocery stores the option to prevent unvaccinated from entering

Post by fluffy »

Sorry, not buying it one bit. The vast majority of evidence says better vaxxed than not if you don't have a medical condition preventing vaccination. I've seen enough of these arguments that latch on to some obscure study or blow minor little points way out of proportion to support a minority position.
Never miss a good chance to shut up.
Sparki55
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Re: New Brunswick now provides grocery stores the option to prevent unvaccinated from entering

Post by Sparki55 »

fluffy wrote: Dec 8th, 2021, 6:05 am But it is an absolute fact that your chances of getting infected or infecting others is reduced with the vaccine. So better to get it than not.
Did you read the report? Over 1,200 deaths after the first round of emergency vaccines administered from 2020 to Feb 2021... Over 11,000 the never recovered from their reported issue.

The government decided who lived and died with each mandatory vaccine rollout.

Oh but they saved other people from dying of Covid? So what? What if you were one 9f the people who died of the vaccine? Was this cause noble enough for you?
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Re: New Brunswick now provides grocery stores the option to prevent unvaccinated from entering

Post by Sparki55 »

fluffy wrote: Dec 8th, 2021, 6:55 am Sorry, not buying it one bit. The vast majority of evidence says better vaxxed than not if you don't have a medical condition preventing vaccination.
The vast majority of evidence has left out how many people have died from the vaccine. We're told "safe and effective"

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