Grim grim grim climate [model] predictions

[spooker]

https://www.castanet.net/news/Salmon-Ar ... ols#361655

How are there people this dense in our society? "Fossil fuel propaganda?" Natural gas is an important resource that keeps people warm. It's so awesome! All our kids should know this. Without natural gas many people would freeze to death. Just such nonsense.

Normalizing anything without proper observations is just asinine ... natural gas is not the solution to every heating need ...

And as for people who say "the plants love more CO2" there's this:

It might seem there’s an upside to the rising levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Plants are growing faster.

However, in many species of plants, quantity is not quality. Most plants are growing faster, but they have on average more starch, less protein and fewer key vitamins in them, said James Metzger, a professor and chair of the Department of Horticulture and Crop Science in The Ohio State University’s College of Food, Agricultural, and Environmental Sciences (CFAES).

https://vegetablegrowersnews.com/news/t ... nutrients/

[The Green Barbarian]

Normalizing anything without proper observations is just asinine ...

I agree. And this person freaking out because her son was being taught the truth about how great natural gas is is totally asinine! What a bunch of gibberish! Your son is enjoying the best quality/standard of life in the history of mankind, and it's cheap energy sources like natural gas, which are great for the environment, that are responsible for that quality of life. Enough freak-outs about "propaganda", and teach your son some truth.

[spooker]

Normalizing anything without proper observations is just asinine ...

I agree. And this person freaking out because her son was being taught the truth about how great natural gas is is totally asinine! What a bunch of gibberish! Your son is enjoying the best quality/standard of life in the history of mankind, and it's cheap energy sources like natural gas, which are great for the environment, that are responsible for that quality of life. Enough freak-outs about "propaganda", and teach your son some truth.

Cherry-picking comments along with your data?

[Phil Intheblank]

Removed.

[The Green Barbarian]

Cherry-picking comments along with your data?

Nope. Just pointing out that natural gas is amazing and it was great to hear that kids are learning that truth. It was sad to hear that this doctor thinks that it is "fossil fuel propaganda". That's just dumb.

[Pappywinkle]

Cherry-picking comments along with your data?

[WESTman]

...

[Staredintoabyss]

I don't believe a single climate model has actually proven to be correct.
Too many variables we cannot account for, do not understand, or are not even aware of.

My personal belief is that given the earth could wipe us out with a fart, and the sun with a burp (volcanoes and solar flares respectively) we should be focusing on durable and efficient methods that sustain our ability to live on this planet as fundamentally our time here will end soon enough and probably abruptly. 95% of what we argue about and engage in is just fluff to occupy ourselves between meals, sex, and sleep.

[Andrewski]

Whatver climate model you choose to critize it seems the oceans are rising in temperature.

https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/ ... igure%201).

I don't care what you think or believe, the fact is a change in ocean temperature could causr devastating changes to our climates.

You can ignore it all and claim its just about fear and control but it seems like you're the ones afraid to address the impending change.

And before you post more memes about how this is the same rhetoric from the 70s, well it is, and was always true. It's happening and will continue to happen and you and I will never see the impending disaster were creating. It'll be our grandchildren facing ocean current collapse.

[Phil Intheblank]

If person made climate change made by burning fossil fules is really a hoax then why doesn't the Government of Alberta and its 'War Room' not come out and recognise that?

Are they lying to the people too?

https://www.alberta.ca/climate-change-alberta.aspx

https://www.canadianenergycentre.ca/

[Jlabute]

Whatver climate model you choose to critize it seems the oceans are rising in temperature.

https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/ ... igure%201).

I don't care what you think or believe, the fact is a change in ocean temperature could causr devastating changes to our climates.

You can ignore it all and claim its just about fear and control but it seems like you're the ones afraid to address the impending change.

And before you post more memes about how this is the same rhetoric from the 70s, well it is, and was always true. It's happening and will continue to happen and you and I will never see the impending disaster were creating. It'll be our grandchildren facing ocean current collapse.

There have been many recent periods when the oceans were warmer than today, and the sea level higher. You have great faith.


http://www.drroyspencer.com/2022/03/why ... -of-faith/

ALL temperature change in any system is due to an imbalance between the rates of energy gain and energy lost. In the case of the climate system, it is believed the Earth each year absorbs a global average of about 240 Watts per sq. meter of solar energy, and emits about the same amount of infrared energy back to outer space.

If we are to believe the last ~15 years of Argo float measurements of the ocean (to 2000 m depth), there has been a slight warming equivalent to an imbalance of 1 Watt per sq. meter, suggesting a very slight imbalance in those energy flows.

One watt per sq. meter.

That tiny imbalance can be compared to the 5 to 10 Watt per sq. meter uncertainty in the ~240 Watt per sq. meter average flows in and out of the climate system. We do not know those flows that accurately. Our satellite measurement systems do not have that level of absolute accuracy.

Global energy balance diagrams you have seen have the numbers massaged based upon the assumption all of the imbalance is due to humans.

I repeat: NONE of the natural, global-average energy flows in the climate system are known to better than about 5-10 Watts per sq. meter…compared to the ocean warming-based imbalance of 1 Watt per sq. meter.

What this means is that recent warming could be mostly natural…and we would never know it.

[foenix]

ALL temperature change in any system is due to an imbalance between the rates of energy gain and energy lost. In the case of the climate system, it is believed the Earth each year absorbs a global average of about 240 Watts per sq. meter of solar energy, and emits about the same amount of infrared energy back to outer space.

If we are to believe the last ~15 years of Argo float measurements of the ocean (to 2000 m depth), there has been a slight warming equivalent to an imbalance of 1 Watt per sq. meter, suggesting a very slight imbalance in those energy flows.

One watt per sq. meter.

That tiny imbalance can be compared to the 5 to 10 Watt per sq. meter uncertainty in the ~240 Watt per sq. meter average flows in and out of the climate system. We do not know those flows that accurately. Our satellite measurement systems do not have that level of absolute accuracy.

Global energy balance diagrams you have seen have the numbers massaged based upon the assumption all of the imbalance is due to humans.

I repeat: NONE of the natural, global-average energy flows in the climate system are known to better than about 5-10 Watts per sq. meter…compared to the ocean warming-based imbalance of 1 Watt per sq. meter.

What this means is that recent warming could be mostly natural…and we would never know it.

Their research might be more believable and credible if they took ALL the models into account instead of the ones that fit their narrative.

.........the problem I see with the paper by Spencer and Braswell is not that it declared a minority view ...but that it essentially ignored the scientific arguments of its opponents. This latter point was missed in the review process, explaining why I perceive this paper to be fundamentally flawed and therefore wrongly accepted by the journal." Wagner added he, "would also like to personally protest against how the authors and like-minded climate skeptics have much exaggerated the paper's conclusions in public statements".

Andrew Dessler later published a paper opposing the claims of Spencer and Braswell in Geophysical Research Letters. He stated, among other things:

First, [they] analyzed 14 models, but they plotted only six models and the particular observational data set that provided maximum support for their hypothesis. Plotting all of the models and all of the data provide a much different conclusion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Spenc ... orologist)

[captkirkcanada]

here is the reality of oil companies and the misinformation they pay others to employ


https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... t_b-gdneco

“I’m being a steward to my land and I’m being a defender,” read one of 21 ads targeting British Columbia in November 2021, quoting a Coastal GasLink worker from Nak’azdli Whut’en’ First Nation.

As the ad conveying Indigenous support for the pipeline appeared on the Facebook and Instagram feeds of people in the Canadian province, 30 Wet’suwet’en Nation members and supporters were being violently evicted from their territory along the pipeline. Police breached two cabins with an axe, chainsaw, dog unit and snipers aimed at the door.

“The thing I remember most is the dogs … barking and whining, pulling their leashes trying to get at you,” recounts Sleydo’ Molly Wickham, a member of the Gidimt’en Clan of the Wet’suwet’en, who was arrested. A recording the police put out over their radios also left a strong imprint on her memory. “They were playing a horror film audio. You know, where the little child sings, ‘I know where you are, I’m gonna get you, I’m coming for you.’”

The fossil fuel groups spent some C$122,000 (US$95,249) on more than 400 targeted Facebook and Instagram ads over the past two years relating to various oil and gas projects throughout the country. The ads spiked last November during Indigenous land defense actions on the Coastal GasLink pipeline in British Columbia and solidarity protests across Canada. The vast majority of the ads, which were shown some 21m times in total, were linked to the Coastal GasLink pipeline, the site of intense protest and violent police crackdown in recent years.

Coastal GasLink is one of three multibillion-dollar pipelines facing opposition by some Indigenous and environmental groups in Canada. The construction of the 670km pipeline through unceded Wet’suwet’en territory – land never signed away to the Canadian government – has sparked nationwide protests in recent years. The pipeline has also exacerbated complex divisions within the Wet’suwet’en First Nation, some of whom favor the economic opportunities promised by the project.

this thread is itself part of what i am pointing out here and now.

we know that co2 and methane cause the earth to warm up like a blanket or greenhouse does because they work in exact same ways. anyone saying anything other than that is putting out what they know is misinformation. they know it and dont care.

[The Green Barbarian]

we know that co2 and methane cause the earth to warm up like a blanket or greenhouse

Nope. This is total nonsense.

[crookedmember]

Nope.