Grande Prairie Votes To Replace RCMP

[Ken7]

May be they have too much money? Having to pay for their own PD will solve that problem.

The Nelson city police have it figured out... Create the "BC Federation of Police officers" and then hire an American telemarketing firm to phone province-wide asking for donations to help support police.

Each telemarketer can raise 100 dollars an hour (those who don't get fired), of which 15% goes to the BC Federation of Police Officers. 20 employees manning the phone for 32 hours a week and you can understand why Nelson doesn't want or need the RCMP.

What you are referring to is likely the Police association, who is a part of the Canadian Police Federation. The Federation has in the past hired telemarketing groups to canvas communities to raise money for the CPA initiatives.

Sadly these people do likely get a percentage and some of them are pathetic!! I've observed it firsthand.

[Ken7]

The RCMP is underfunded and understaffed. They are actually hiring people right out of high school right now with no previous job experience. It is sad that Trudeau gives money away to foreign nations but ignore the needs of Canadians.

My co-worker was an auxiliary RCMP for 5 years and had other work experience by his late 20s so tried to join the RCMP. Law abiding gun owner about to start a family. With good references from the local RCMP.

They denied him because he's a straight white male.

I've heard other cases as well. They are so pressed to hire, minorities, and females. It won't be long and they will be trying to fill their single, white, male portions as many of the 30 year members are that category.

[Ken7]

Looks like a more realistic plan, conducting the change over five years, unlike Surrey.

Looks like a trend forming. I wonder if the Provincial Govt, will take note of this in making their decision, as they have the last word in either returning to RCMP of continuing on forming the Surrey Police Service.

Sitting on the outside looking in. Surrey is on the right track, although once you have started the process you cannot stop mid-stream and go back.

The extreme costs you hear of with them is, if you stop and go backwards look out. You have contracts, you have civil law suits, you can't do this change of mind without a large pot of gold.

In transitioning, you need to keep the Police who was currently policing untill you have the backbone in place. Then there are equipment needs and all that have to be purchased. There are 1,000 officers alone in Surrey. Think about the numbers of support staff currently there. You can't say Monday March 26 we're are our own force. It takes time to switch over and once committed, you best continue!

Lastly the RCMP they are already in process I'm sure re-locating the members that are slowly being replaced. There is another cost factor as well. Once they are re-located again you can't just hold them back.

Yes there may be some RCMP member patch changing, if the new management thinks they want them. Let's face it, now is a good time to clean out the ranks. There is so much more that is going on that people don't consider.

[my5cents]

Sitting on the outside looking in. Surrey is on the right track, although once you have started the process you cannot stop mid-stream and go back.

The extreme costs you hear of with them is, if you stop and go backwards look out. You have contracts, you have civil law suits, you can't do this change of mind without a large pot of gold.

In transitioning, you need to keep the Police who was currently policing untill you have the backbone in place. Then there are equipment needs and all that have to be purchased. There are 1,000 officers alone in Surrey. Think about the numbers of support staff currently there. You can't say Monday March 26 we're are our own force. It takes time to switch over and once committed, you best continue!

Lastly the RCMP they are already in process I'm sure re-locating the members that are slowly being replaced. There is another cost factor as well. Once they are re-located again you can't just hold them back.

Yes there may be some RCMP member patch changing, if the new management thinks they want them. Let's face it, now is a good time to clean out the ranks. There is so much more that is going on that people don't consider.

There's a couple of issues,,, one doesn't concern the policing switch but should be very concerning. That is there is a trend in government to undo or terminate programs or initiatives that were implemented by previous governments. This happens at all levels of government. The oil pipeline approved by the Trump administration, ended by the Biden administration certainly comes to mind.

The new mayor of Surrey, Brenda Locke, appears to be a BIG problem, but the former mayor Doug McCallum IMO was no better.

The project of converting policing of a large municipality (the largest RCMP detachment in Canada) from RCMP to a municipal police is a huge and expensive undertaking and should not be taken lightly. I'm not aware of any independent reliable study presenting the pros and cons of RCMP verses Municipal police. McCallum has made statements supporting the change to municipal that are just not correct or are his impressions, not fact. "I think they have a hard time addressing all the gun violence", "I live in South Surrey, ... I never see the RCMP", "RCMP officers will come here for two or three years, and then get transferred out".

The first two are not based on anything but McCallum's impression, but the third is false, the average time an RCMP officer stays in Surrey is seven or eight years. Now, is six or seven years a desirable term in an area for a police officer ?

I'm not saying keeping the RCMP is a good or bad idea, but shouldn't such an endeavor be investigated by experts ??? Then an informed decision arrived at, either by a municipal counsel or by the public by way of plebiscite. The estimated cost over 5 years for Surrey to completely convert to a municipal police force is about $¼ Billion. How many studies would have to take place to build a structure costing $250,000,0000 ?

The RCMP began policing Surrey on May 1st 1951 as a result of a plebiscite. As far as I know this change to municipal police was based on the election of McCallum. McCallum took his election win to be a vote for a switch to a municipal police force.

The subsequent election of Locke was taken by Locke to be a vote to return to the RCMP. It seems all the tax payers of Surrey are astonished with the costs, both to form a municipal force and to undue the partial switch.

IMO a full investigation of the viability of, and desirability to switch to municipal policing should have been completed before the change.

I would think a full blown independent investigation on the use of the RCMP for all municipal policing, contract provincial policing and rural policing in the province should have been completed by the provincial government years ago. Without such an investigation we're left with opinions on whether the RCMP should retain the contract for policing in BC and is like belly buttons, everyone has one.

There is one pro. If Surrey continues to convert to a municipal police force it will free up many RCMP officer who can fill empty RCMP positions all over the province.

The RCMP already have "opted out" of investigating traffic collisions with the exception of the extremely serious ones, collision statistic being generated by ICBC claims, most minor crimes are not attended by police, reports are submitted via telephone or on line, what other crimes will be eliminated from their "book of business" and their numbers dwindle, who knows. "The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, a division of stats Canada".

[Ken7]

The RCMP already have "opted out" of investigating traffic collisions with the exception of the extremely serious ones, collision statistic being generated by ICBC claims, most minor crimes are not attended by police, reports are submitted via telephone or on line, what other crimes will be eliminated from their "book of business" and their numbers dwindle, who knows. "The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, a division of stats Canada".

I think the RCMP have stopped investigating more than accidents. Even from members of their own, the moral is so low they are only keeping a store front. Using manpower shortage, doesn't hold water for me, I've been there.

There needs to be changes made with that organization.

In sating this, the NEW police are not like the old where they took pride in their work. There used to be accountability and members took ownership of the City they Policed. Today standards have been lowered to fill the ranks.

[alanjh595]

The RCMP, are not only national, but also interprovincial. In other words, they do not stop at city boundaries, they don't stop at provincial boundaries.

If a "chase/investigation" begins in one city, the RCMP will follow it to the next city and/or province.

Down in the USA, they have city, state, highway police. The entire country is covered by the FBI, ICE, HLS, NCIS, and many others. They don't always communicate effectively and support each other in a conducive manner.

Who is going to police the rural communities of this country?

[liisgo]

I think the RCMP have stopped investigating more than accidents. Even from members of their own, the moral is so low they are only keeping a store front. Using manpower shortage, doesn't hold water for me, I've been there.

There needs to be changes made with that organization.

In sating this, the NEW police are not like the old where they took pride in their work. There used to be accountability and members took ownership of the City they Policed. Today standards have been lowered to fill the ranks.

Agreed, having to work with in the confines, barriers, judgements, laws etc. of the new political correct, culture issues and claims, victim hoods, woke demands and quota's, etc. there would be absolutely no way in the world this organization could run effectively and successfully.
Guess we could easily assume these burdens to manage and be successful are taking its toll everywhere from governments, to airlines, to pretty much all we rely on to work at an optimum level.
It would take a new leader with strength and courage to stand against the demands of this social culture and put all else first. That person will never be put into the opportunity for the same reason.

[my5cents]

The RCMP already have "opted out" of investigating traffic collisions with the exception of the extremely serious ones, collision statistic being generated by ICBC claims, most minor crimes are not attended by police, reports are submitted via telephone or on line, what other crimes will be eliminated from their "book of business" and their numbers dwindle, who knows. "The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, a division of stats Canada".

I think the RCMP have stopped investigating more than accidents. Even from members of their own, the moral is so low they are only keeping a store front. Using manpower shortage, doesn't hold water for me, I've been there.

There needs to be changes made with that organization.

In sating this, the NEW police are not like the old where they took pride in their work. There used to be accountability and members took ownership of the City they Policed. Today standards have been lowered to fill the ranks.

Sorry, you've misunderstood. They've stopped attending minor traffic collisions, all the while touting the seriousness of traffic violations but the result is only violators that don't cause collisions get tickets, the ones that do, don't get ticketed (isn't that backwards ??) . As for "minor crimes" they are not attended and then as well and the information submitted by the victim isn't investigated, it just contributes to statistics. Thus my stating "The RCMP a division of stats Canada".

Insurance companies require police case numbers before they will entertain most insurance claims. I think the reasoning was that a victim had to report an incident to the police and thus an investigation would be commenced verifying the legitimacy of the claim. The truth being the reporting of a minor incident merely provides the RCMP with a statistic for them to place on subsequent reports and include on graphs, there is no investigation. The policy of insurance companies to require the case number doesn't really accomplish anything.

[Ken7]

I think the RCMP have stopped investigating more than accidents. Even from members of their own, the moral is so low they are only keeping a store front. Using manpower shortage, doesn't hold water for me, I've been there.

There needs to be changes made with that organization.

In sating this, the NEW police are not like the old where they took pride in their work. There used to be accountability and members took ownership of the City they Policed. Today standards have been lowered to fill the ranks.

Sorry, you've misunderstood. They've stopped attending minor traffic collisions, all the while touting the seriousness of traffic violations but the result is only violators that don't cause collisions get tickets, the ones that do, don't get ticketed (isn't that backwards ??) . As for "minor crimes" they are not attended and then as well and the information submitted by the victim isn't investigated, it just contributes to statistics. Thus my stating "The RCMP a division of stats Canada".

Insurance companies require police case numbers before they will entertain most insurance claims. I think the reasoning was that a victim had to report an incident to the police and thus an investigation would be commenced verifying the legitimacy of the claim. The truth being the reporting of a minor incident merely provides the RCMP with a statistic for them to place on subsequent reports and include on graphs, there is no investigation. The policy of insurance companies to require the case number doesn't really accomplish anything.

You missed my point.

They have slowed down doing police work. With the RCMP it is all about stats, I worked their reporting system and am fully aware of PIRS and PROS and how they work. It's all about the numbers.

WE used to be more concerned about our solving rates.

[bob vernon]

Like many small towns, Grande Prairie wants a police force who will do what the movers and shakers in town want, not what the law says. They want to be able to call up the chief and get that impaired charge reduced or that assault charge reduced to causing a disturbance. RCMP officers come and go every few years, police who are a permanent part of the community can be called and brought to heel.

[Ken7]

Like many small towns, Grande Prairie wants a police force who will do what the movers and shakers in town want, not what the law says. They want to be able to call up the chief and get that impaired charge reduced or that assault charge reduced to causing a disturbance. RCMP officers come and go every few years, police who are a permanent part of the community can be called and brought to heel.

You have no idea on Policing if you believe that.

A Chief will find himself in real hot water in a community if he pulls that. It is called obstructing justice.

RCMP officers are now spending more time then in the past. At one time it was every 2-3 years and off they went. Now it's up to ten years and some places longer. I'm going to bet there are member in Kelowna Detachment with in excess of 10 years.

[my5cents]

Like many small towns, Grande Prairie wants a police force who will do what the movers and shakers in town want, not what the law says. They want to be able to call up the chief and get that impaired charge reduced or that assault charge reduced to causing a disturbance. RCMP officers come and go every few years, police who are a permanent part of the community can be called and brought to heel.

So the RCMP are the way to go eh ? Rotated in and out to prevent corruption.

Is this an impression you have, saw it on a TV show, came to you in a dream ? Or do you have something to share ?

[my5cents]

Interesting Article: "National police force grapples with calls for change, shifting role as it turns 150"

https://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/42 ... 150#427975

• As the RCMP marks its 150th anniversary, a familiar, nagging question about the storied national police force is resurfacing: Should the Mounties withdraw from small communities across Canada to fully concentrate on big-ticket federal files such as cybercrime, fraud and human trafficking?
  
  The notion of a more focused version of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, a sort of "FBI North" that leaves provincial and municipal policing to others, has rarely been far from conversations about the force's mandate and future direction.

[seewood]

RCMP officers are now spending more time then in the past. At one time it was every 2-3 years and off they went. Now it's up to ten years and some places longer. I'm going to bet there are member in Kelowna Detachment with in excess of 10 years.

I'd believe that.
Friends kid has been there at least 7 years and will likely stay until the kids are older.
Correct me if I'm wrong but if you want to stay, your chances of promotion ( Corporal, Sargent) become limited. That affects the pension I suspect.
perhaps today members want to stay in a spot longer for lifestyle while raising a family. A city constable does have the ability to move to other city run departments if they wanted to. On the Tube I see many Vancouver transit cops that were spokespeople for Abbotsford or Vancouver department.
Never heard of in the past but I know of one member that has been posted in their hometown.
Other than one or two, the members I have interacted with over the years have been very easy and approachable.
Bob Vernon has a point to some degree, if the department is city run, the chief and officers I suppose answer to council eventually with the town or city doing the hiring and firing. A good constable or chief should not be swayed by council to do their bidding regarding charges. All will be in the news eventually for all the wrong reasons.

[my5cents]

..........
A city constable does have the ability to move to other city run departments if they wanted to. On the Tube I see many Vancouver transit cops that were spokespeople for Abbotsford or Vancouver department.

"move" = resign and get re-hired at a different department.

..............
Bob Vernon has a point to some degree, if the department is city run, the chief and officers I suppose answer to council eventually with the town or city doing the hiring and firing. A good constable or chief should not be swayed by council to do their bidding regarding charges. All will be in the news eventually for all the wrong reasons.

• (reminder of what Bob Vernon posted) : Grande Prairie wants a police force who will do what the movers and shakers in town want, not what the law says. They want to be able to call up the chief and get that impaired charge reduced or that assault charge reduced to causing a disturbance. RCMP officers come and go every few years, police who are a permanent part of the community can be called and brought to heel.

Municipal police are governed by their local police board and the BC Police Act. I think Bob watches too much TV. The offense for the acts Bob described is "Obstructing Justice" a criminal offense. Municipal forces do their own hiring and firing, they aren't supplied with candidates by the town or city. A municipality would not have the resources to vet and select appropriate candidates for their force.

All police forces receive general direction, or requests for police recourse allocation by their respective city counsels, RCMP included.

As for the alleged illegal symbiotic relationship between municipal police forces and their city council, one only has to look at the example of the City of Vancouver's relationship with the Vancouver Police, when the city cut $5.7 million from the police budget.
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-new ... illion-cut