Russia war in the Ukraine

[seewood]

I just don't buy the Russian's are evil and the West is perfect mantra and I'll leave it there.

Believe me, I'm with you on that. I'd be pretty sure that Russians themselves are a pretty patriotic, proud bunch. I would be after what they endured during WW2. Pretty much can be said of pretty much all citizens of their respective countries.

Likely, as in numerous countries, the citizens are pretty cool, but there are a few countries in the world where the leaders could be considered corrupt, dictatorial a.. h....( )

In this case with Russian troops massing on the border with Ukraine, having large war games with Ukraine's other neighbour Belarus. I truly hope they don't invade, no need for it in my mind.

Now the Baltics are getting antsy : https://www.rt.com/russia/545896-increa ... rs-baltic/

[GordonH]

I just don't buy the Russian's are evil and the West is perfect mantra and I'll leave it there.

Believe me, I'm with you on that. I'd be pretty sure that Russians themselves are a pretty patriotic, proud bunch. I would be after what they endured during WW2. Pretty much can be said of pretty much all citizens of their respective countries.

Likely, as in numerous countries, the citizens are pretty cool, but there are a few countries in the world where the leaders could be considered corrupt, dictatorial a.. h....( )

In this case with Russian troops massing on the border with Ukraine, having large war games with Ukraine's other neighbour Belarus. I truly hope they don't invade, no need for it in my mind.

Now the Baltics are getting antsy : https://www.rt.com/russia/545896-increa ... rs-baltic/

Incredibly sad part is how Stalin had killed huge amount ussr citizens (3+ million according to official records). Who knows how many more unofficially.

[capleton]

I just don't buy the Russian's are evil and the West is perfect mantra and I'll leave it there.

Believe me, I'm with you on that. I'd be pretty sure that Russians themselves are a pretty patriotic, proud bunch. I would be after what they endured during WW2. Pretty much can be said of pretty much all citizens of their respective countries.

Likely, as in numerous countries, the citizens are pretty cool, but there are a few countries in the world where the leaders could be considered corrupt, dictatorial a.. h....( )

In this case with Russian troops massing on the border with Ukraine, having large war games with Ukraine's other neighbour Belarus. I truly hope they don't invade, no need for it in my mind.

Now the Baltics are getting antsy : https://www.rt.com/russia/545896-increa ... rs-baltic/

Democracies can't become dictatorships? I think Plato or Aristotle disagree. What about all those weapons that the U.S and U.K send to to dictatorships like Bahrain and the UAE?

[seewood]

Democracies can't become dictatorships?

Sure they can, Russia is arguably. Hugo Chaves was elected in an election and before long became a socialist dictator until his death.
There are some that would think even Trump was a wanna be dictator.. The US has many checks and balances to really prevent that though.

Don't think Bahrain would fall under dictatorship: Bahrain is located in the Middle East and gained independence from Britain in 1971. According to Bahrain’s 2002 Constitution, the country is a constitutional monarchy and the king is the head of state while the prime minister is the head of government. The king wields legislative, judicial and executive authority and is responsible for appointing of government officials.

UAE :The UAE is run by a federal government and local governments of the seven emirates. Their powers and roles are defined by the Constitution. Under the UAE system of government, the President of the Federation is elected by a body known as the Supreme Council of Rulers. The Supreme Council is the top policy-making body in the UAE, and the President and Vice President are both elected from its membership for renewable five-year terms.

What about " all those weapons" ? Pretty much every country in the world build, make and export weapons of various size and destruction capability.

Canada's share :For the 2019 calendar year, the value of Canadian exports of controlled military goods and technology amounted to a record high of approximately $3.757 billion.

Well, regarding the title, Russia is still talking, good thing. I think their phobias are misleading. NATO is a defensive alliance in Europe. They would have NO intention or desire to invade Russia. Dumb thing to attempt and expect a different result.

[MalaPropina]

Incredibly sad part is how Stalin had killed huge amount ussr citizens (3+ million according to official records). Who knows how many more unofficially.

Holomodor. The Terror Famine. The genocide and starvation of millions if Ukranians. 1932-1933. A campaign by Stalin to exterminate the Ukranians who wanted independence from the Soviet Union which they had briefly in 1918-1920 before the Red Army moved in on them.

3.5 million to 5 million died. Some scholars speculate it could be as many as 7 million.

Ukraine has been fighting for freedom and independence for a long long time.

[unclemarty]

I just don't buy the Russian's are evil and the West is perfect mantra and I'll leave it there.

According to some Ukrainian immigrants to Canada the corruption there is through the roof. One told me not to take what we hear at face value - much of it is misleading with massive omissions and distortions.

I told him i'm not surprised to hear it - a lot of that going around these days.

One thing is sure - when reading the translated subtitles to Putin interviews and comments, compared to our clowns, Putin is smart, straight-forward and direct.

Whatever else he may be, at least Russia still has a leader. What do we have - weak "woke" double-talking politicians you can't trust.

[GordonH]

Incredibly sad part is how Stalin had killed huge amount ussr citizens (3+ million according to official records). Who knows how many more unofficially.

Holomodor. The Terror Famine. The genocide and starvation of millions if Ukranians. 1932-1933. A campaign by Stalin to exterminate the Ukranians who wanted independence from the Soviet Union which they had briefly in 1918-1920 before the Red Army moved in on them.

3.5 million to 5 million died. Some scholars speculate it could be as many as 7 million.

Ukraine has been fighting for freedom and independence for a long long time.

[Babba_not_Gump]

An interesting map showing the ever changing borders of Ukraine, starting with the 8th century.
And it will continue to change.
Best that we, NATO, keep our noses out.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... e-ukraine/

[Babba_not_Gump]

If the bullets start flying, are we prepared to see Canadian troops coming home in body bags?

These are Canada's military missions in the area.
Operation UNIFIER is the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) mission to support the Security Forces of Ukraine.  The intent is to help Ukraine remain sovereign, secure, and stable.

Operation REASSURANCE in Central and Eastern Europe.  At any time, there can be up to 915 CAF members deployed on Operation REASSURANCE, making it Canada’s largest current international military operation.

Are these military personally going to stand by and watch if Russia moves on Ukraine, will they come home or will they start shooting back?
Believe me, this won't be a slow drawn out military action like Afghanistan was.

[Thinktank]

In 2014, Russian military forces annexed Crimea ... The ongoing conflict in eastern Ukraine has claimed some 14,000 lives.

Timeline of the slaughter

1-YANUKOVICH (pro Russian) was democratically elected in 2010

2-NULAND IS APPOINTED in 2013? Saddest day in history.

With $5 billion dollars Nuland and other criminals are able to get rid of the democratically elected
president of Ukraine - and begin a quick slaughter - that no one in Canada knows about because
no one talks about it. It's kind of a secret.



100% damage was done by Ukraine's criminals. 14,000 dead people in the east.


A true two-face - And Nuland won't go away even now.
Below - the truth about Ukraine.

https://mid.ru/ru/press_service/publika ... 9/?lang=en



..

[Babba_not_Gump]

^^^ No...it wont be protracted in any way.
Russian doctrine is to not shoot at NATO with anything conventional because they can't afford to. No chance at all for them to defeat NATO in a conventional war. That's why NATO never dares to fire on them, or they will switch to tactical nukes in short order. And when it comes to tactical battlefield ( and strategic) nukes, Russia vastly outguns NATO.

I hope you're right.
I have only some trust in Putin, even less trust in Biden and no trust in Freeland.

[Babba_not_Gump]

Damn, at first glance that sure looked like Freeland handing out goodies to her favourite countrymen.

[capleton]

Democracies can't become dictatorships?

Sure they can, Russia is arguably. Hugo Chaves was elected in an election and before long became a socialist dictator until his death.
There are some that would think even Trump was a wanna be dictator.. The US has many checks and balances to really prevent that though.

Don't think Bahrain would fall under dictatorship: Bahrain is located in the Middle East and gained independence from Britain in 1971. According to Bahrain’s 2002 Constitution, the country is a constitutional monarchy and the king is the head of state while the prime minister is the head of government. The king wields legislative, judicial and executive authority and is responsible for appointing of government officials.

UAE :The UAE is run by a federal government and local governments of the seven emirates. Their powers and roles are defined by the Constitution. Under the UAE system of government, the President of the Federation is elected by a body known as the Supreme Council of Rulers. The Supreme Council is the top policy-making body in the UAE, and the President and Vice President are both elected from its membership for renewable five-year terms.

What about " all those weapons" ? Pretty much every country in the world build, make and export weapons of various size and destruction capability.

Canada's share :For the 2019 calendar year, the value of Canadian exports of controlled military goods and technology amounted to a record high of approximately $3.757 billion.

Well, regarding the title, Russia is still talking, good thing. I think their phobias are misleading. NATO is a defensive alliance in Europe. They would have NO intention or desire to invade Russia. Dumb thing to attempt and expect a different result.

Sure Bahrain falls under a dictatorship, they are a Sunni monarchy who brutally suppresses the Shia population and the UAE is described by google as a autocratic authoritarian government. So quoting Wikipedia does not change that and they both buy weapons from the West so they can bomb the poorest country in the Middle East (*Yemen). Man your comments just reinforce my original post the West is no better then Russia.

[GordonH]

^^^ There are still a few Absolute Kingdoms:
Saudi Arabia
Oman
Swaziland
Vatican City

[seewood]

Sure Bahrain falls under a dictatorship,

Nope, I don't think so.

West sells a ton of weapons to numerous countries, as does Russia. For whatever the reason China is not big on exports...yet. Maybe quality?
All these weapons that east, west sell to other countries are designed to kill. And kill they do, so lets not get on a high horse here and start saying things I did not say. We all know what the Russians did in Syria, and we all know what the west did in Iraq, and so many other countries I couldn't count.

The topic of this thread is regarding Russia's impending invasion of Ukraine, or not. The west will not put boots on the ground but will and are supplying kit that will kill Russian's should they cross the border. The fact Russia thinks if they occupy Ukraine will give them more security is a fallacy. Within a year I would not be surprised if the west boosts their presence in the old Soviet block countries that are now under the NATO umbrella, especially the Baltic states. Not what Russia wants.