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The Zeitgeist Movement
-
peaceseeker
- Lord of the Board
- Posts: 4000
- Joined: Sep 11th, 2008, 10:27 am
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement
TZM: Response to FBI targeting Political Activists as Terrorists
As many students of history are familiar, Galileo Galilei, famed mathematician & astronomer, known today by many as the “father of modern science”, was forced by the Catholic Church under threat of torture to recant his “heretical” view that the earth revolved around the sun and not vice-versa in the 17th century. This scientifically valid idea voided long held religious dogma and hence challenged the Church's integrity itself.
In a letter from 1634, René Descartes, one of the world's most noted thinkers and philosophers, stated: “Doubtless you know that Galileo was recently censored by the Inquisitors of the Faith, and that his views about the movement of the earth were
condemned as heretical. I must tell you that all the things I explained in my treatise, which included the doctrine of the movement of the earth, were so interdependent that it is enough to discover that one of them is false to know that all the arguments I was using are unsound. Though I thought they were based on very certain and evident proofs, I would not wish, for anything in the world, to maintain them against the authority of the church.... I desire to live in peace and to continue the life I have begun under the motto to 'live well you must live unseen'.”
If we step back and think about the challenges that faced this small progressive and scientific community during 17th Century Europe and compare the fear and patterns of suppression coming from the established orthodoxy of that time to that of the modern-day, we find only mere variation. Descartes' revelation and retreat from exposure, as expressed by the motto: 'to live well you must live unseen' is a disheartening disposition that speaks volumes and sadly carries on to this day across the world. The use of fear, intimidation and other time tested variations of oppression continue to persist as the dominant institutions of our society work to protect it's established orders regardless of social validity. Even more, the overall cultural itself, which invariably tends to support the accepted beliefs put forward by those that define “power” of a period, also tends to condemn those who choose to pose a challenge as it becomes a threat to the mass accepted identity itself.
The result is that many simply are not willing to risk their lives, occupations and reputations to challenge the orthodoxy of the time.
In late May 2011 news reports were generated that detailed how the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the United States was actively targeting “Political Activists” under the pretense of “Terrorism”.
http://rt.com/usa/news/fbi-political-ac ... errorists/
Just as people like John Lennon and Martin Luther King Jr. were watched and harassed by the FBI for their activism decades ago, it appears modern, so-called “Anti-Terrorism” resources are being used to target environmentalists, peace, animal and political activists.
Just like the accusations of “Communism” against people like MLK Jr. in the mid 20th century, this newer, more generalized device called “Terrorism” of the 21st century is no less an “heretical”, accusatory tool than what was employed by the Inquisition century's ago to maintain the politico-religious social system.
So, we can sympathize with Descartes' notion, as to move against the Zeitgeist is to position yourself against the odds, regardless of how empirical, necessary or obvious the truth you wish to convey and act upon is.
Unfortunately, Descartes' position is unacceptable in the modern world. The risks that now exist within our current order are beginning to far outweigh the temporal personal risks generated by the act of activist objection itself.
It is no longer issues of accurate data, “rights” and “freedoms”. Today our very stability as a civilization is now in question and, if left unhindered, it threatens us all, regardless of one's position in the modern feudal hierarchy.
So, we can sit in confusion and watch as global unemployment rises due to technological unemployment and the resulting regional instability that is sure to grow. We can stare blankly at the systematic debt collapse of the world economy, country by country, like dominos, as self-appointed global banking institutions that derive money out of nothing impose austerity measures against the poor and middle class of each country to help support the wealthy, furthering the income divide.
We can twiddle our thumbs as what we have called “democracy” turns inexplicably into global plutocracy and the world economy becomes measured by how much money the rich move around amongst themselves. We can distract ourselves with our little gadgets as the rain-forests – considered by many to be the “lungs” of this planet – are destroyed at faster and
faster rates, reducing our ability to absorb the growing CO2 in the atmosphere. We can keep the TV on as the clean water and food shortages that currently affect over 1 billion people continue to grow to 2 billion... 3 billion. We can scan the tabloids at the grocery store news stands as the very basis of industrial civilization, the Hydrocarbon Economy, inches towards crisis scarcity with virtually no active initiative taken to change course.
We can continue to pretend that our “leaders” are anything but “mis-leaders”, set in motion by monetary commercial interests that follow the rules of the free-market with all legislation and offices going to the highest bidder, one way or another... and we can stand amused as a new global arms race gains speed as each country comes to terms with the very real reality that wars for resources are upon us in a way unlike any period in history.
This is what separates our world from the one Descartes hid from.
The fact is, the fear tactics of the Orthodoxy - in this context the FBI or any such “Intelligence Agency” - are no longer worthy of viable concern or even acknowledgment. At no time in history has any true social change come in a manner that was not opposed with hostility by the dominant orders of the time. If you choose fear, then fear exists and those little lists/tactics held by the Intelligence/Police Agencies have merit. If you choose love, pride and self-respect then no accusations, lists, or threats can ever stop you. The trick now is in numbers and if we can gain critical mass and override the “divide and conquer” techniques used to keep the orthodoxy in place, the game is over.
The Zeitgeist Movement is a global sustainability activist group working to bring the world together for the common goal of species sustainability before it is too late. It is a social movement, not a political one, with over 1100 chapters across nearly all countries. Divisionary notions such as nations, governments, races, political parties, religions, creeds or class are non-operational distinctions in the view of The Movement. Rather, we recognize the world as one system and the human species as a singular unit, sharing a common habitat. Our overarching intent could be summarized as “the application of the scientific method for social concern.”
As many students of history are familiar, Galileo Galilei, famed mathematician & astronomer, known today by many as the “father of modern science”, was forced by the Catholic Church under threat of torture to recant his “heretical” view that the earth revolved around the sun and not vice-versa in the 17th century. This scientifically valid idea voided long held religious dogma and hence challenged the Church's integrity itself.
In a letter from 1634, René Descartes, one of the world's most noted thinkers and philosophers, stated: “Doubtless you know that Galileo was recently censored by the Inquisitors of the Faith, and that his views about the movement of the earth were
condemned as heretical. I must tell you that all the things I explained in my treatise, which included the doctrine of the movement of the earth, were so interdependent that it is enough to discover that one of them is false to know that all the arguments I was using are unsound. Though I thought they were based on very certain and evident proofs, I would not wish, for anything in the world, to maintain them against the authority of the church.... I desire to live in peace and to continue the life I have begun under the motto to 'live well you must live unseen'.”
If we step back and think about the challenges that faced this small progressive and scientific community during 17th Century Europe and compare the fear and patterns of suppression coming from the established orthodoxy of that time to that of the modern-day, we find only mere variation. Descartes' revelation and retreat from exposure, as expressed by the motto: 'to live well you must live unseen' is a disheartening disposition that speaks volumes and sadly carries on to this day across the world. The use of fear, intimidation and other time tested variations of oppression continue to persist as the dominant institutions of our society work to protect it's established orders regardless of social validity. Even more, the overall cultural itself, which invariably tends to support the accepted beliefs put forward by those that define “power” of a period, also tends to condemn those who choose to pose a challenge as it becomes a threat to the mass accepted identity itself.
The result is that many simply are not willing to risk their lives, occupations and reputations to challenge the orthodoxy of the time.
In late May 2011 news reports were generated that detailed how the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the United States was actively targeting “Political Activists” under the pretense of “Terrorism”.
http://rt.com/usa/news/fbi-political-ac ... errorists/
Just as people like John Lennon and Martin Luther King Jr. were watched and harassed by the FBI for their activism decades ago, it appears modern, so-called “Anti-Terrorism” resources are being used to target environmentalists, peace, animal and political activists.
Just like the accusations of “Communism” against people like MLK Jr. in the mid 20th century, this newer, more generalized device called “Terrorism” of the 21st century is no less an “heretical”, accusatory tool than what was employed by the Inquisition century's ago to maintain the politico-religious social system.
So, we can sympathize with Descartes' notion, as to move against the Zeitgeist is to position yourself against the odds, regardless of how empirical, necessary or obvious the truth you wish to convey and act upon is.
Unfortunately, Descartes' position is unacceptable in the modern world. The risks that now exist within our current order are beginning to far outweigh the temporal personal risks generated by the act of activist objection itself.
It is no longer issues of accurate data, “rights” and “freedoms”. Today our very stability as a civilization is now in question and, if left unhindered, it threatens us all, regardless of one's position in the modern feudal hierarchy.
So, we can sit in confusion and watch as global unemployment rises due to technological unemployment and the resulting regional instability that is sure to grow. We can stare blankly at the systematic debt collapse of the world economy, country by country, like dominos, as self-appointed global banking institutions that derive money out of nothing impose austerity measures against the poor and middle class of each country to help support the wealthy, furthering the income divide.
We can twiddle our thumbs as what we have called “democracy” turns inexplicably into global plutocracy and the world economy becomes measured by how much money the rich move around amongst themselves. We can distract ourselves with our little gadgets as the rain-forests – considered by many to be the “lungs” of this planet – are destroyed at faster and
faster rates, reducing our ability to absorb the growing CO2 in the atmosphere. We can keep the TV on as the clean water and food shortages that currently affect over 1 billion people continue to grow to 2 billion... 3 billion. We can scan the tabloids at the grocery store news stands as the very basis of industrial civilization, the Hydrocarbon Economy, inches towards crisis scarcity with virtually no active initiative taken to change course.
We can continue to pretend that our “leaders” are anything but “mis-leaders”, set in motion by monetary commercial interests that follow the rules of the free-market with all legislation and offices going to the highest bidder, one way or another... and we can stand amused as a new global arms race gains speed as each country comes to terms with the very real reality that wars for resources are upon us in a way unlike any period in history.
This is what separates our world from the one Descartes hid from.
The fact is, the fear tactics of the Orthodoxy - in this context the FBI or any such “Intelligence Agency” - are no longer worthy of viable concern or even acknowledgment. At no time in history has any true social change come in a manner that was not opposed with hostility by the dominant orders of the time. If you choose fear, then fear exists and those little lists/tactics held by the Intelligence/Police Agencies have merit. If you choose love, pride and self-respect then no accusations, lists, or threats can ever stop you. The trick now is in numbers and if we can gain critical mass and override the “divide and conquer” techniques used to keep the orthodoxy in place, the game is over.
The Zeitgeist Movement is a global sustainability activist group working to bring the world together for the common goal of species sustainability before it is too late. It is a social movement, not a political one, with over 1100 chapters across nearly all countries. Divisionary notions such as nations, governments, races, political parties, religions, creeds or class are non-operational distinctions in the view of The Movement. Rather, we recognize the world as one system and the human species as a singular unit, sharing a common habitat. Our overarching intent could be summarized as “the application of the scientific method for social concern.”
"I think our society is run by insane people for insane objectives...I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends...but I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
~ John Lennon
~ John Lennon
-
kina
- Board Meister
- Posts: 668
- Joined: Mar 15th, 2010, 8:43 am
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement
What is a Rothschild doing at a Zeitgeist conference!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2ahWHbUVVU
And just so there is no argument as to the identity and origins of the man:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/David_Mayer_de_Rothschild
Methinks something is wrong here.
The Zeitgeist plan for a "self-sustainable" city to me looks a lot like the Agenda 21 version where contact with nature is controlled and all of the population is subjugated into cordoned off cities:
http://vimeo.com/11406231 All that I saw here was control and artificial structures. Where are the wildflowers in this "perfect" view of the world? Can't I just go hiking in the woods without getting permission from some environmental group?
It seems to me that the whole movement was made as a facade whose sole purpose is to unite people into one communist regime without calling it as such.
A couple of words from David Icke:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd8VkQZir7Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2ahWHbUVVU
And just so there is no argument as to the identity and origins of the man:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/David_Mayer_de_Rothschild
Methinks something is wrong here.
The Zeitgeist plan for a "self-sustainable" city to me looks a lot like the Agenda 21 version where contact with nature is controlled and all of the population is subjugated into cordoned off cities:
http://vimeo.com/11406231 All that I saw here was control and artificial structures. Where are the wildflowers in this "perfect" view of the world? Can't I just go hiking in the woods without getting permission from some environmental group?
It seems to me that the whole movement was made as a facade whose sole purpose is to unite people into one communist regime without calling it as such.
A couple of words from David Icke:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd8VkQZir7Y
"The Ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy...”
-Martin Luther King
-Martin Luther King
-
Homeownertoo
- Lord of the Board
- Posts: 3948
- Joined: Nov 10th, 2008, 1:50 pm
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement
Yep, that's about it.
“Certain things cannot be said, certain ideas cannot be expressed, certain policies cannot be proposed.” -- Leftist icon Herbert Marcuse
“Don’t let anybody tell you it’s corporations and businesses create jobs.” -- Hillary Clinton, 25/10/2014
“Don’t let anybody tell you it’s corporations and businesses create jobs.” -- Hillary Clinton, 25/10/2014
-
steelrules
- Grand Pooh-bah
- Posts: 2623
- Joined: Nov 7th, 2005, 11:09 pm
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement
I'm not big on the Venus project either there is some good in it and some bad.
But do not confuse the message from the Zeitgeist movie with the Venus project ,which does in fact mirror agenda 21.
Rothschilds = pure evil.
Just the way the Republican Tea party highjacked many Ron Paul supporters Rothschilds will highjack Zeitgeist
But do not confuse the message from the Zeitgeist movie with the Venus project ,which does in fact mirror agenda 21.
Rothschilds = pure evil.
Just the way the Republican Tea party highjacked many Ron Paul supporters Rothschilds will highjack Zeitgeist
"A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves"
Edward R Murrow
Now a proud member of the NRA & Canadian Sport Shooting Association.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
Edward R Murrow
Now a proud member of the NRA & Canadian Sport Shooting Association.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
-
peaceseeker
- Lord of the Board
- Posts: 4000
- Joined: Sep 11th, 2008, 10:27 am
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement
kina wrote:What is a Rothschild doing at a Zeitgeist conference!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2ahWHbUVVU ...
To be straight, Google's 'Zeitgeist Europe' has absolutely nothing to do with The Zeitgeist Movement and/or The Venus Project...no affiliation whatsoever.
Homeownertoo wrote:Yep, that's about it.
And Homey, for future, you should at least familiarize yourself with the topic at hand before you decide to blindly chime in.
Links to all the Zeitgeist movies can be found at the below link...
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
I see there's a new one slated for 2012 - ZEITGEIST: BEYOND THE PALE 2012 [TBA] - looking forward to it.
Peter Joseph and David Mayer de Rothschild...two completely different people with entirely different objectives...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw9IHJNB75E&feature=related[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw9IHJNB75E
A message from the filmmaker.
In late 2009 I was able to interview Peter Joseph, the creator of "Zeitgeist, The Movie" and "Zeitgeist- Addendum"; Founder of The Zeitgeist Movement, in his home. He described himself and his life in details in what is likely a rare interview. He was kind enough to provide me with previously unreleased media and video and I in turn did my best to create a documentary
(albeit kinda poor in quality compared to his work!) that would help express who this person is.
Thanks
-Charles
http://www.whoispeterjoseph.com/
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/
"I think our society is run by insane people for insane objectives...I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends...but I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
~ John Lennon
~ John Lennon
-
Jo
- Slot 16
- Posts: 22663
- Joined: Nov 27th, 2004, 12:33 pm
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement
This is beginning to look like a come-to-zeitgeist hallelujah thread. STOP promoting the site by posting the links over and over again, or this thread will be shut down. This is to discuss the issue, nothing more, it is not to promote it or help advertise it.
-
peaceseeker
- Lord of the Board
- Posts: 4000
- Joined: Sep 11th, 2008, 10:27 am
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement
Jo wrote:This is beginning to look like a come-to-zeitgeist hallelujah thread. STOP promoting the site by posting the links over and over again, or this thread will be shut down. This is to discuss the issue, nothing more, it is not to promote it or help advertise it.
My post was in response to a couple of ill-founded posts...that's all. I am defending The Zeitgeist Movement/The Venus Project and what it promotes. I can't help it if some people don't investigate before posting.
"I think our society is run by insane people for insane objectives...I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends...but I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
~ John Lennon
~ John Lennon
-
kina
- Board Meister
- Posts: 668
- Joined: Mar 15th, 2010, 8:43 am
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement
peaceseeker wrote:To be straight, Google's 'Zeitgeist Europe' has absolutely nothing to do with The Zeitgeist Movement and/or The Venus Project...no affiliation whatsoever.
I'm not saying I completely disagree with some of the things that the Zeitgeist Movement has to offer, but their motives behind it seem murky considering things such as Zeitgeist Europe and The Venus Project, both of which still fall under it's category.
I would just like to ask how you came to differentiate what is and what isn't a part of the movement.
If these areas truly aren't connected, then why didn't Peter Joseph sue the other infiltrators for using the name of his movement to promote something that he doesn't stand for?
"The Ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy...”
-Martin Luther King
-Martin Luther King
-
kina
- Board Meister
- Posts: 668
- Joined: Mar 15th, 2010, 8:43 am
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement
Here's a video of Peter Joseph talking about the Zeitgeist Movement and The Venus Project:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6155267538808426800
Here is the quote from the first couple of seconds into the film:
"What is the Zeitgeist Movement? The Zeitgeist Movement is the activist arm of The Venus Project, which constitutes the
lifelong work of industrial designer and social engineer Jacque Fresco." -Peter Joseph
Just image search this guys name and you'll see his "visionary works".
This is what I was pertaining to in the first post I made on this thread:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In this video Peter Joseph states how he started:
_He didn't make it in music so he ended up in advertising
_He had a problem with people telling him what to do and he didn't like advertising so...
_...He ended up working in the "financial arena" by doing day trading and continued to make money off of the market on and off for many years. He doesn't anymore because he despises the market system.
_He justifies working for what he supposedly didn't believe in because it was the only job he could think of that didn't have a boss and client and it represented freedom for him.
_He does admit that the market has no social relevance and contributes nothing to society, though.
So taking all of this into account, he made money in his early years off of the very source of the problems in today's society so that he could in the end talk about how disapproving he is of it?
Makes me wonder whether things like this (https://rt.com/usa/news/bulldozing-america-bank-america/) are happening in order to make way for things like this (http://www.thevenusproject.com/).
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6155267538808426800
Here is the quote from the first couple of seconds into the film:
"What is the Zeitgeist Movement? The Zeitgeist Movement is the activist arm of The Venus Project, which constitutes the
lifelong work of industrial designer and social engineer Jacque Fresco." -Peter Joseph
Just image search this guys name and you'll see his "visionary works".
This is what I was pertaining to in the first post I made on this thread:
Kina wrote:The Zeitgeist plan for a "self-sustainable" city to me looks a lot like the Agenda 21 version where contact with nature is controlled and all of the population is subjugated into cordoned off cities:
http://vimeo.com/11406231 All that I saw here was control and artificial structures. Where are the wildflowers in this "perfect" view of the world? Can't I just go hiking in the woods without getting permission from some environmental group?
It seems to me that the whole movement was made as a facade whose sole purpose is to unite people into one communist regime without calling it as such.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
peaceseeker wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw9IHJNB75E
In this video Peter Joseph states how he started:
_He didn't make it in music so he ended up in advertising
_He had a problem with people telling him what to do and he didn't like advertising so...
_...He ended up working in the "financial arena" by doing day trading and continued to make money off of the market on and off for many years. He doesn't anymore because he despises the market system.
_He justifies working for what he supposedly didn't believe in because it was the only job he could think of that didn't have a boss and client and it represented freedom for him.
_He does admit that the market has no social relevance and contributes nothing to society, though.
So taking all of this into account, he made money in his early years off of the very source of the problems in today's society so that he could in the end talk about how disapproving he is of it?
Makes me wonder whether things like this (https://rt.com/usa/news/bulldozing-america-bank-america/) are happening in order to make way for things like this (http://www.thevenusproject.com/).
"The Ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy...”
-Martin Luther King
-Martin Luther King
-
kina
- Board Meister
- Posts: 668
- Joined: Mar 15th, 2010, 8:43 am
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement
On a lighter note:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_iz2iQLW3rJ8/TUzk_lCUmxI/AAAAAAAAAHw/Q315pyApyag/s1600/The+Penis+Project+Co-Opt.jpg
Enjoy.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_iz2iQLW3rJ8/TUzk_lCUmxI/AAAAAAAAAHw/Q315pyApyag/s1600/The+Penis+Project+Co-Opt.jpg
Enjoy.
"The Ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy...”
-Martin Luther King
-Martin Luther King
-
peaceseeker
- Lord of the Board
- Posts: 4000
- Joined: Sep 11th, 2008, 10:27 am
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement
kina wrote:peaceseeker wrote:To be straight, Google's 'Zeitgeist Europe' has absolutely nothing to do with The Zeitgeist Movement and/or The Venus Project...no affiliation whatsoever.
I'm not saying I completely disagree with some of the things that the Zeitgeist Movement has to offer, but their motives behind it seem murky considering things such as Zeitgeist Europe and The Venus Project, both of which still fall under it's category.
I would just like to ask how you came to differentiate what is and what isn't a part of the movement.
If these areas truly aren't connected, then why didn't Peter Joseph sue the other infiltrators for using the name of his movement to promote something that he doesn't stand for?
Kina, 'Zeitgeist Europe' is not infiltrating 'The Zeitgeist Movement'. Zeitgeist Europe originated in May 2006...preceding the first Zeitgeist 'movie' by one year. Why/how would Peter Joseph sue someone/something that preceded his creation? The word zeitgeist simply means 'spirit of the times'.
In your original post - viewtopic.php?f=31&t=18225&start=375#p1040237 - you were attempting to link 'Zeitgeist Europe' to 'The Zeitgeist Movement' by asking what a Rothschild was doing at a Zeitgeist conference. I'm letting you know the presentation you refer to is not a 'Zeitgeist Movement' lecture...and that the two 'movements' are not, and never have been, affiliated.
You should check out a real 'Zeitgeist Movement' lecture...completely different message being promoted...
http://www.google.ca/search?q=zeitgeist ... =firefox-a
Do I honestly believe such a change in society will happen? No, probably not in our lifetime....but it definitely could happen. If it weren't for the need of almighty PROFIT being attached to whatever is produced in this world we could definitely see a 'resource-based economy' come to fruition.
"I think our society is run by insane people for insane objectives...I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends...but I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
~ John Lennon
~ John Lennon
-
kina
- Board Meister
- Posts: 668
- Joined: Mar 15th, 2010, 8:43 am
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement
Thanks for that information about Zeitgeist Europe.
But we still haven't touched upon the issue of what the Zeitgeist Movement DOES promote, such as The Venus Project. Peter Joseph is openly promoting a technocratic man who, as far as I can tell, only has one goal: to see a full-size playhouse of his imagination come to life and expect to have everyone play in it by passing it off as a "step towards the harmony of the future."
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Technocracy
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Technocracy_movement
The reason I have such a problem with this is because that model of living has absolutely no room for imagination, growth, creativity, feeling, and all of the other things that let us function as fully aware individuals and human beings.
In the end, we come to the same situation that religion creates: a complete submission to one way of thinking, only instead of this time being gods and angels, it becomes science and technology.
Instead of attempting to better ourselves, find the true value in our lives, and once again define ourselves as a species, we are still attempting to forcefully change the outside world and nature in order to make it fit into this malfunctioning system of thinking. We fail to see that no form of society will work unless we ourselves change our perception on things. I would much rather see a movement for something like this ((just an example)):
"Kymatica"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AanQ2mY2jjc
But we still haven't touched upon the issue of what the Zeitgeist Movement DOES promote, such as The Venus Project. Peter Joseph is openly promoting a technocratic man who, as far as I can tell, only has one goal: to see a full-size playhouse of his imagination come to life and expect to have everyone play in it by passing it off as a "step towards the harmony of the future."
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Technocracy
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Technocracy_movement
The reason I have such a problem with this is because that model of living has absolutely no room for imagination, growth, creativity, feeling, and all of the other things that let us function as fully aware individuals and human beings.
In the end, we come to the same situation that religion creates: a complete submission to one way of thinking, only instead of this time being gods and angels, it becomes science and technology.
Instead of attempting to better ourselves, find the true value in our lives, and once again define ourselves as a species, we are still attempting to forcefully change the outside world and nature in order to make it fit into this malfunctioning system of thinking. We fail to see that no form of society will work unless we ourselves change our perception on things. I would much rather see a movement for something like this ((just an example)):
"Kymatica"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AanQ2mY2jjc
"The Ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy...”
-Martin Luther King
-Martin Luther King
-
peaceseeker
- Lord of the Board
- Posts: 4000
- Joined: Sep 11th, 2008, 10:27 am
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement
kina wrote:Thanks for that information about Zeitgeist Europe.
But we still haven't touched upon the issue of what the Zeitgeist Movement DOES promote, such as The Venus Project. Peter Joseph is openly promoting a technocratic man who, as far as I can tell, only has one goal: to see a full-size playhouse of his imagination come to life and expect to have everyone play in it by passing it off as a "step towards the harmony of the future."
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Technocracy
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Technocracy_movement
The reason I have such a problem with this is because that model of living has absolutely no room for imagination, growth, creativity, feeling, and all of the other things that let us function as fully aware individuals and human beings.
In the end, we come to the same situation that religion creates: a complete submission to one way of thinking, only instead of this time being gods and angels, it becomes science and technology.
Instead of attempting to better ourselves, find the true value in our lives, and once again define ourselves as a species, we are still attempting to forcefully change the outside world and nature in order to make it fit into this malfunctioning system of thinking. We fail to see that no form of society will work unless we ourselves change our perception on things. I would much rather see a movement for something like this ((just an example)):
"Kymatica"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AanQ2mY2jjc
I should note that this is a topic I haven't kept myself up-to-date...after doing some refreshing I discovered (for what it's worth) The Zeitgeist Movement and The Venus Project have split ways and are no longer functioning as a partnership. This isn't to say either projects have ended - far from it - they are simply no longer functioning as a partnership.
Anywho, back to your comments...
Nothing wrong with a technocracy...just because it doesn't provide 'profit' doesn't make it a bad thing and, if implemented, would prove a far better worth to Mother Earth and to the people on the whole. Curious...why do you believe that model of living has absolutely no room for imagination, growth, creativity, feeling? These are attributes that come from within...how could science/technology take them away?
The same can't be said about our current 'way of life' ie. capitalism and its inherent 'monetary system'. Capitalism doesn't use science/technology to benefit Mother Earth or humanity (on the whole). Never has, never will. Capitalism does nothing but create division within society through competition...division creates wealth differential...wealth differential creates poverty...a technocracy would eliminate these fine attributes of capitalism. Capitalism doesn't ever promote efficiency, abundance and sustainability...it's survives by promoting scarcity, waste, pollution, multiplicity and planned obsolescence. A technocracy would eliminate these survival tactics of capitalism as well.
Again, do I believe something like this will happen? No, probably not in our lifetime...the capitalist system is too engrained in society. But a point I cannot stress enough is that it could be done. We could, right now, rid ourselves of OIL as being a primary energy source and utilize the many renewable energy sources provided by the Earth/Sun. We could, right now, end poverty worldwide and allow all our brothers and sisters to experience life without needless tethers.
"I think our society is run by insane people for insane objectives...I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends...but I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
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Re: The Zeitgeist Movement
That's a lot of politics for a hippie movement.
Sarcasm is like a good game of chess. Most people don't know how to play chess.
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kina
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Re: The Zeitgeist Movement
peaceseeker wrote:Nothing wrong with a technocracy...just because it doesn't provide 'profit' doesn't make it a bad thing and, if implemented, would prove a far better worth to Mother Earth and to the people on the whole.
First of all, I don’t see how you deduced that a lack of profit was my main beef. All that I’m against is being forced to live in a society of somebody else’s vision with no input from any other individual on earth other than Jacque Fresco and those who support him. Just because the current bureaucracy messed up and damaged the earth so much that it’s begun affecting our survival as well doesn’t mean that I have to pay the price by being put in a “playpen”.
All I’m trying to point out is that no mode of living and no sustainable city will be able to save us unless we learn to live WITH Mother Earth and view ourselves as a PART of it not as something separate that should be cordoned off into little inescapable cities.
What if I want to go camping in the woods? What if I just want to go out of the city and explore nature? What if I want to live IN nature? Will I be “allowed” to do that of my own initiative or will I have to get approval from the technocratic leader.
peaceseeker wrote:Curious...why do you believe that model of living has absolutely no room for imagination, growth, creativity, feeling? These are attributes that come from within...how could science/technology take them away?
The same way that the current way of living is slowly taking it away. A person can experience creativity when he or she is given room to do so. But that requires that their environment is reflective of that. Look at that city closely again. Where do you see anything different from what Jacque envisioned? Where was there any room left for the ideas of somebody else? As soon as a person has no choice in the way they live or in how they live (without harming others, of course), that is a limitation and a blockade against their right to liberty. No matter how nice the prison may look, it is still a prison.
Why is technocracy being given unlimited room and freedom for exploration of the unknown but I am not give the opportunity to explore myself? How is what I am able to create more dangerous than what science and technology is able to create?
Science and technology have the very likely chance to go astray because of lack of forethought and it is not always right. Just remember how smoking was publicized before by doctors, how some vaccines proved fatal to individuals, how the constant humming from wind turbines have caused sheep and cattle to go mad and how the propellers kill the birds who are in flight, how the Large Hadron Collider project which is being worked on with little to no knowledge of the major repercussions possible (such as creating a cataclysm). These are the technocratics, and you expect me to believe in and follow them?
I’m not saying that we should go back to living in caves and live like animals. We have advanced as a species too far in order to even be able to do that probably in the first place. But instead of forcing science upon us without looking at all the facts, (not just from a scientific and technological perspective but also from a psychological, emotional, and spiritual one as well) it won’t do us nor the earth much good at all.
peaceseeker wrote:The same can't be said about our current 'way of life' ie. capitalism and its inherent 'monetary system'. Capitalism doesn't use science/technology to benefit Mother Earth or humanity (on the whole). Never has, never will. Capitalism does nothing but create division within society through competition...division creates wealth differential...wealth differential creates poverty...a technocracy would eliminate these fine attributes of capitalism. Capitalism doesn't ever promote efficiency, abundance and sustainability...it's survives by promoting scarcity, waste, pollution, multiplicity and planned obsolescence. A technocracy would eliminate these survival tactics of capitalism as well.
A technocratic society only deals with the mechanical, technological side of life. Its primary motive is to make its surroundings as functional and sustainable as possible. And that sounds alright, until you factor in the point that if that is what rules our society, how will there be any room left for the soul?
Look at the “Kymatica” video I posted in my last post again (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AanQ2mY2jjc). It is not natural for an individual to be separated from nature. That is why the current way of life doesn’t work and that is why the Venus Project won’t either. Both ways of life seem to treat the people as the “enemy” (for lack of a better word) only one sees them as an enemy to the established artificially made order while the other sees them as the enemy to the natural Mother Nature order. You cannot say that they don’t either because, otherwise, the envisioned way of living would be far different and it would leave every individual room to create and decide on their own way of life.
We already see the Venus Project and technocratic views around us already. Pathways on which you have to walk, don’t tread on the grass signs, little men in orange patrolling the place to make sure nobody doesn’t anything minutely wrong. We’re being functioned to follow and not lead.
peaceseeker wrote:Again, do I believe something like this will happen? No, probably not in our lifetime...the capitalist system is too engrained in society. But a point I cannot stress enough is that it could be done. We could, right now, rid ourselves of OIL as being a primary energy source and utilize the many renewable energy sources provided by the Earth/Sun. We could, right now, end poverty worldwide and allow all our brothers and sisters to experience life without needless tethers.
Ok, as far as sustainable living, renewable energy, and reduction of pollution is concerned, I agree with you 100%. If we aren’t taking care of our planet, we aren’t taking care of ourselves. It’s just how we envision taking care of our planet is what I’m disputing. We don’t need to be separate from it in order to take care of it.
I have to admit, I am a very anal person myself. I like everything around me to be clean and ordered because I find it easier for me to function that way. But I always put myself into the shoes of the person who likes to be a bit more messy than me and find that the majority of them find it easier to live in THAT way. I’d rather see them happy than force them into an ordered life just because it suits me that way. In a way, I have learned far more from the messy person than I have from the ordered person.
"The Ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy...”
-Martin Luther King
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