Anti-Semite

Anti-Semite

Postby Osoyoos_Familyof4 » Jan 27th, 2015, 4:52 pm

There is much news of late, mostly concerning Europe, but North America is not immune either, to people resurrecting an old brand of hate against Jews.

I deeply respect the Jewish religion and culture. I feel there is no question surrounding the reality of the holocaust and the generational devastation to European Jews.

However, I am no longer at a point where I can condone a Jewish state in The Middle East at its current location. I don't know if there can indeed be a Jewish land-holder state anywhere in the Middle East.

I don't have an answer as to where they should go and what they should do. But I think more and more people are starting to realize the mistake made when The Middle East was partitioned.

The land needs to be returned to Palestine. Hopefully the state of Palestine will continue to respect and honour the religious sites that are claimed by Judaism, Christianity, and Islam in the sensitive areas. But I have no moral doubt anymore that the State of Isreal was a hasty decision made by guilty politicos of European and North American extraction.

No wonder the Middle Easterners distrust us. We steal their land, partition them off and them bomb them when they complain.

We need to find some humility and common sense here. We made a mistake. We need to make it right with them. How we make it right for the Jews, I don't know. We may not ever be able to compensate The Jews appropriately. But the Partition of Palistine is no way to make amends to The Jews. Maybe Nazi sympathizing countries can take a look at making better reparations, I don't know. But as someone who Jerusalem is very important to me, I still have to say we need to give it back and hope they let us worship at the sites we all deem holy.

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Re: Anti-Semite

Postby Glacier » Jan 27th, 2015, 6:26 pm

Osoyoos_Familyof4 wrote:However, I am no longer at a point where I can condone a Jewish state in The Middle East at its current location. I don't know if there can indeed be a Jewish land-holder state anywhere in the Middle East.

I don't have an answer as to where they should go and what they should do. But I think more and more people are starting to realize the mistake made when The Middle East was partitioned.

The land needs to be returned to Palestine.

What are you talking about? The Jewish people are the only people who have ever had a sovereign nation in that location, so why should that give it to the Palestinians, a group of people that never existed until after the creation of modern day Israel?

The reason the Muslim world hates the Jewish state is that they believe that all Kafirs need to be subjugated as dhimmis, but the Jews refuse to be dhimmis.

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Re: Anti-Semite

Postby maryjane48 » Jan 27th, 2015, 7:52 pm

Maybe Nazi sympathizing countries can take a look at making better reparations




im a little lost on where you were going with this ? its not the jewish peoples fault , that their leaders are puppets of the yanks.
i think if left to the jewish citizens and palestinian citizens, a deal would have happened long ago, but , the arms dealers in the good ole us of a , be laying people off, if they didn't have israel to sell weapons to.

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Re: Anti-Semite

Postby Atomoa » Jan 28th, 2015, 3:15 am

Osoyoos_Familyof4 wrote:The land needs to be returned to Palestine.


As of Friday, that type of language might be considered condoning terrorism ;)
The true business of people should be to go back to
school and think about whatever it was they were
thinking about before somebody came along and told
them they had to earn a living.

- Buckminster Fuller

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Re: Anti-Semite

Postby Smurf » Jan 28th, 2015, 6:11 am

I have a real problem believing they are or ever will be puppets to anyone. It is just not in their makeup. I would be more likely to believe the states are bowing to them.
Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have of changing others.

The happiest of people don't necessarily have the best of everything, they just make the most of everything that comes their way.

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Re: Anti-Semite

Postby brounal » Jan 28th, 2015, 10:25 am

Israel exists. Unless other nations destroy it , its not going anywhere and since Israel is a nuclear power that does tend to stop countries from messing with it like they tried to do in the past in 1948, 1967 , 1975? with major attacks against the state.

So best thing that can happen is for people to learn to get along with it. Also about 20% of Israel consists of Arab /Israelis . Not counting West Bank and Gaza. The best solution to me would be to have a three state solution . Gaza and West bank would be Palestinian states and Israel would remain the way it is. Jerusalem should be an international city open to all faiths. Israel should not allow any settlements in Gaza or West Bank .If they buy land there legally or choose to live on Palestinian land on lease basis well guess that would be fine just like people in West Side here live on leased land .
And guess Palestinians should have right to buy land in rest of Israel as well. Not sure what to do about right of return of millions of Palestinians to main part of Israel. Israel also is afraid if the Palenstinians have majority in Israel then the country would be impossible to govern the way they want to govern it. As many times majority Islamic governments try to put in Sharia law in the entire country and are often very heavy handed on other religions as well. And Sharia law as its usually implemented has no place in the 21st century.

If you read history you will see that the Jews in Israel have land claims going back thousands of years.

I do tend to get a bit annoyed when people become extreme in their views and some Jewish people can get this way and that is more Zionistic type of thing . You then get some wanting to rebuild the temple on the original site which is currently
the Dome of the Rock a very holy Islamic site and you get some Israelis trying to build settlements in every part of the country even Gaza and West Bank and of course Jerusalem. As said to me the only answer is to make Jerusalem an international city not some walled city like Berlin was.
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Re: Anti-Semite

Postby brounal » Jan 28th, 2015, 10:28 am

Oh and lots of other countries are supplying weapons to the Palestinian and other surrounding Arab countries and have since the state of Israel came into being in 1948. Yes the US and maybe some other countries supply arms to Israel and they do have one of the most highly trained best equipped militaries in the world. A necessity since as said they had to fight three major invasion attempts since 1948.
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Re: Anti-Semite

Postby rustled » Jan 28th, 2015, 10:34 am

Glacier wrote:What are you talking about? The Jewish people are the only people who have ever had a sovereign nation in that location, so why should that give it to the Palestinians, a group of people that never existed until after the creation of modern day Israel?

The reason the Muslim world hates the Jewish state is that they believe that all Kafirs need to be subjugated as dhimmis, but the Jews refuse to be dhimmis.


I'll admit to being less than fully informed on this topic, but the premise put forth in that video seemed overly simplistic.

Interesting reading here:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html
Provides an interesting perspective of which I'd been completely unaware (that of the Jewish people who were there when Israel was created) along with what may be a far more reasoned assessment of the conflict.
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Re: Anti-Semite

Postby Glacier » Jan 28th, 2015, 12:56 pm

rustled wrote:I'll admit to being less than fully informed on this topic, but the premise put forth in that video seemed overly simplistic.

Interesting reading here:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html
Provides an interesting perspective of which I'd been completely unaware (that of the Jewish people who were there when Israel was created) along with what may be a far more reasoned assessment of the conflict.

I wouldn't trust a source from an anti-semitic website. You call the link simplistic, but you did not refute a single point he made. That's because he speaks the truth, but it conflicts with your NDP loving leftist "Muslims are always the victims" preconceived assumption. If you want something a little less simplistic, try this.
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Re: Anti-Semite

Postby maryjane48 » Jan 28th, 2015, 1:33 pm

NDP loving leftist "Muslims are always the victims" preconceived assumption
why write lies , lets see a link to the ndp constitution that says this.
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Re: Anti-Semite

Postby rustled » Jan 28th, 2015, 2:09 pm

Glacier wrote:I wouldn't trust a source from an anti-semitic website. You call the link simplistic, but you did not refute a single point he made. That's because he speaks the truth, but it conflicts with your NDP loving leftist "Muslims are always the victims" preconceived assumption. If you want something a little less simplistic, try this.

Wow! Does willingness to consider all sides actually mean I'm an NDP loving leftist, or that I go by the assumption "Muslims are always the victims"? I hardly think so. But what you've assumed and then posted about me without even bothering to look at the link may say a great deal about you. I'll leave that for you to decide.

The piece I linked to is not anti-semitic. It starts out with this:
The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict

By Jews for Justice in the Middle East

Just a few paragraphs in:
One further point: being Jewish ourselves, the position we present here is critical of Zionism but is in no way anti-Semitic. We do not believe that the Jews acted worse than any other group might have acted in their situation. The Zionists (who were a distinct minority of the Jewish people until after WWII) had an understandable desire to establish a place where Jews could be masters of their own fate, given the bleak history of Jewish oppression. Especially as the danger to European Jewry crystalized in the late 1930’s and after, the actions of the Zionists were propelled by real desperation.

But so were the actions of the Arabs. The mythic “land without people for a people without land” was already home to 700,000 Palestinians in 1919. This is the root of the problem, as we shall see.

It's not up to me to refute the points made in the video. The piece I linked to presents a great deal of context your video lacked. Read it or don't. Agree with it or don't. Accept where it refutes a few points in the video, or don't.

Perhaps you're comfortable you already understand everything there is to understand about the conflict.

Personally, I'm interested in learning more.
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Re: Anti-Semite

Postby Glacier » Jan 28th, 2015, 2:10 pm

lakevixen wrote: why write lies , lets see a link to the ndp constitution that says this.

Almost all apologists for Islam are leftists. The right leaning apologists are the neo-Nazi anti-Semitic variety, but they are far fewer in number than the left leaning apologists. The reason that many people with NDP sort of thinking apologize for Islam is not because they like the teachings, but because they view Muslims as minorities, and since all minorities are victims, they need our help to fight against Islamophobia.

This is not to say that bigotry against Muslims doesn't exist (it most definitely does), but in my view many on the left are paralyzed by the prospect that any negative comments about Islamic doctrine could give fuel to the fire of some bigot somewhere, and thus work overtime to criticize any criticism of Islam, even though almost all criticisms are not bigoted.
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Re: Anti-Semite

Postby Thinktank » Jan 28th, 2015, 5:50 pm

Osoyoos_Familyof4 wrote:...

The land needs to be returned to Palestine. ....


Bad idea. Impossible anyway.

There has to be better solutions than that.
Ukraine is broke, and undertook a war on that portion of the country that provided 30% of GDP. Now a draft, for an army, for a war, for a government that will - get this - implement IMF/EU *austerity*.
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Re: Anti-Semite

Postby Glacier » Jan 28th, 2015, 11:48 pm

^ Besides, under international law, the land belongs to the Israelis (which includes 20% Arabs AKA Palestinians), so it's not like the Palestinians couldn't be part of the government. It's a better deal than they had when they were under Turkish rule for 1000 years.
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Re: Anti-Semite

Postby maryjane48 » Jan 29th, 2015, 8:55 am

Almost all apologists for Islam are leftists.
bs lets see a link that shows it is a official part of ndp? if you cant then it should be removed from your post
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