Swedish experiments with Liberal multi-culturalism....

[BeingHuman]

The start of the second year in Canada – when the proverbial cord is cut – is seen as the crucial launch point for refugees, a point many are reaching now. The thinking goes that if Ottawa or private sponsors can carry them along in their first year with financial resources, language lessons and assistance navigating schools and clinics, the newcomers will have the tools to carry forth on their own by Month 13. But only a small portion of government-assisted refugees have functional English or French skills at the end of their first year and just a sliver are able to find jobs. The settlement workers and social workers who assist them, many of whom also take a big step back after a year, say that despite the emphasis on Month 13, it’s unrealistic to expect refugees to be thriving at that point.

At the end of their first year, most do what Mr. Al Rasoul and Ms. Al Mekhlef do: cover their expenses with welfare and the federal child benefit.

Government-assisted refugees in many ways face greater challenges than the privately sponsored cohort: They generally have lower levels of education and bigger families, according to federal figures, but fewer resources and support from volunteers. They struggle more with navigating cultural differences, finding employment, maintaining a social life and finding housing.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/tor ... 761a942563

The article goes on to explain how refugees often end up living in the same area, and socializing with each other. Which results in them speaking their native language most of the time, rather than learning the language of their host country. This, in turn, makes it harder for them to get a job, because few people will hire someone who cannot communicate effectively.

Read the entire article; it's well worth it.

AGAIN, nothing "new" here; http://www.torontoneighbourhoods.net/ne ... ly/history

Vancouver's Chinatown, 130 years in the making. http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2016/02/vanc ... n-history/

Would love to add a little Syria to our mix!

[BeingHuman]

Merry states; "If you go back and re-read my post you will see that what I am suggesting is that we do a better job of making sure refugees we bring over are given every opportunity to learn one of our official languages, and to learn something about our culture. Because without those two skills they will be virtually unemployable."

And yet due to funding cuts to our public education system here in BC, many English as a Second Language (ESL) courses and programs are being axed. Might want to talk to your local BC Liberal MLA about that issue!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/bri ... e20295740/

http://www.straight.com/news/785436/gab ... l-training

[zzontar]

AGAIN, nothing "new" here; http://www.torontoneighbourhoods.net/ne ... ly/history

Vancouver's Chinatown, 130 years in the making. http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2016/02/vanc ... n-history/

Would love to add a little Syria to our mix!

As a lot of cities have a Chinatown, you also see more "Syriatowns" popping up in cities. They're known as no-go zones. You want them here why?

[BeingHuman]

I want them here why? Ummm... cultural diversity, and the fact that we helped bomb the crap out of their country, making it impossible for them to live there, so maybe we should make it up to them by being accommodating towards them? It would seem to be the decent thing to do.

[zzontar]

I want them here why? Ummm... cultural diversity, and the fact that we helped bomb the crap out of their country, making it impossible for them to live there, so maybe we should make it up to them by being accommodating towards them? It would seem to be the decent thing to do.

Do you really think it's worked in Europe?

[sobrohusfat]

Well that's because those Swedes and Europeans just don't do enough - like Merry says, the onus is entirely on you and me to provide, and keep providing, much more - for much longer then ever before.

Unlike every other past generation of immigrants/refugees [Vietnamese "Boat People"] who had to learn a new language and join the rest of citizens on the everyday struggle of building even a humble after-tax life - (with some doing better than others) - this time it's up to us to ensure we provide a complete, lifelong shangri-la experience ... or else?.

[Merry]

Nobody is suggesting we provide people with a "life long Shangri La experience" but it is irresponsible to bring tens of thousands of people over as refugees from a war zone and then fail to provide them with the tools they need to make a success of life in their new home.

Although it may make us feel like "good" people, it's not enough to accept all those refugees if we're not prepared to pay higher taxes to cover the cost of helping them all assimilate. The Government's own estimate is that in the first 6 years following the arrival of the first 25,000 Syrians they'll spend 1.6 billion of our tax dollars on the refugee program, which is a huge amount of money, yet according to the articles I cited in my earlier post, it still won't be enough to ensure a smooth transition for many of these folks.

But if we fail to help them get off to a good start in their new home, we risk the kind of frustration and hopelessness amongst their young folks that has led to a lot of the trouble we've witnessed in Europe. Armies of unemployed, angry young men lashing out at the world because they see no way out of a very bleak existence.

If we don't want the same outcome, we either have to be willing to spend whatever it takes to make sure those "angry armies" never materialize, or we have to seriously curb our refugee program to more affordable levels. One or the other - it's your choice. But people shouldn't be demanding the Government bring over tens of thousands more refugees unless they're willing to pay the cost.

[the truth]

sorry but that is exactly what you are saying ,you just do not realize it

[the truth]

Well that's because those Swedes and Europeans just don't do enough - like Merry says, the onus is entirely on you and me to provide, and keep providing, much more - for much longer then ever before.

Unlike every other past generation of immigrants/refugees [Vietnamese "Boat People"] who had to learn a new language and join the rest of citizens on the everyday struggle of building even a humble after-tax life - (with some doing better than others) - this time it's up to us to ensure we provide a complete, lifelong shangri-la experience ... or else?.

and as a landed immigrant myself i agree with you 100% ,sobrohusfat

[jamapple]

I listened to the entire video, and I wouldn't call it "fear mongering" to raise concerns about how poor assimilation of refugees has, in some cases, resulted in ethnic youth gangs intimidating people.

I have witnessed this exact same result in England; it's been going on there for years in certain parts of certain cities, that have high numbers of one particular ethnic group all located in the same area. The fact that in England it is a different ethnic group than the one causing problems in Sweden, merely illustrates the folly of allowing ANY ethnic group to all live in a single area. Because when a person is surrounded by people who speak the same language, share the same religious and political beliefs, and eat and dress in the same manner, there is no incentive for that person to try to assimilate into the larger society. Which results in them being isolated from the larger community of their host country.

And once they become isolated, and not seen as being a "part of the whole", human nature is such that discrimination (in all its ugly forms) against those who are perceived to be "different" always seems to set in. This in turn leads to resentment on the part of the group being discriminated against, and so it goes on.

So it seems to me that the best way to break this cycle is to discourage large ethnic ghettos from developing in the first place. And the way to do that is to make sure that new immigrants from any one particular ethnic group are more evenly spread out across the country, rather than concentrated in certain neighbourhoods of cities like Toronto.

So, let me get this straight. You feel the answer is to spread out ethnic groups instead of having areas like "little Italy, China towns", etc? So, you feel segregation is the answer so these people won't all be together to be discriminated against that makes the very small minority of them turn to gangs and criminal activity. Alrighty then!! You do know you just actually gave the solution in your second to last paragraph? DON'T DISCRIMINATE AGAINST ANY "GROUP" OF PEOPLE, AND THEY WON'T BE THAT WAY TOWARDS YOU!!! Simple, really.
It boggles my mind how we pick and choose who we want to hate for the day. What do you think they should do about those pesky chinese people in Richmond, or all those dispicable Sihks in Surrey? Break them up, seperate them so they won't feel discriminated against?
Merry, I thought you were better then that.

[zzontar]

So, let me get this straight. You feel the answer is to spread out ethnic groups instead of having areas like "little Italy, China towns", etc? So, you feel segregation is the answer so these people won't all be together to be discriminated against that makes the very small minority of them turn to gangs and criminal activity. Alrighty then!! You do know you just actually gave the solution in your second to last paragraph? DON'T DISCRIMINATE AGAINST ANY "GROUP" OF PEOPLE, AND THEY WON'T BE THAT WAY TOWARDS YOU!!! Simple, really.
It boggles my mind how we pick and choose who we want to hate for the day. What do you think they should do about those pesky chinese people in Richmond, or all those dispicable Sihks in Surrey? Break them up, seperate them so they won't feel discriminated against?
Merry, I thought you were better then that.

Try walking through little Italy, Chinatown, and a no-go zone. Feel the difference.

[Merry]

It boggles my mind how we pick and choose who we want to hate for the day. What do you think they should do about those pesky chinese people in Richmond, or all those dispicable Sihks in Surrey? Break them up, seperate them so they won't feel discriminated against?
Merry, I thought you were better then that.

I never said we should "break ethnic groups up so they don't feel discriminated against" so if that's what you heard, then you misunderstood.

My point is that when large groups of people move to a new country, one that has a language and culture that is totally alien to them, it is not easy for them to "fit in" right away. It takes a lot of time, and they need a lot of help. But the help they need can be very expensive, and often the same folks who demand the Government bring in more and more such people, balk when it comes time to pay the cost of helping them fit into their new home. In other words, many people are unwilling to "put their money where their mouth is".

And this unwillingness frequently has undesirable consequences. Because large groups of people who don't feel like they "fit in" will turn to each other instead of reaching out to the larger unfamiliar society. And when they do this, instead of learning the new language and the host country's cultural norms, they simply continue to live the same way they did in their native country, speaking their native language and abiding by the old countries cultural norms. And when the cultural norms of that old country are in direct conflict with the cultural norms of the host country, the problems set in.

The citizens of the host country begin to feel threatened when large groups of people who speak a different language, and have different cultural values, congregate in one area to the point where (in that particular area) they begin to outnumber the locals. So those now threatened citizens begin to discriminate against those they perceive to be a threat. And those being discriminated against understandably begin to push back. And, when you add a lot of unemployed youth into such a volatile mix, young people without jobs who form into gangs to provide each other with emotional support, you have a recipe for what we've already witnessed happening in certain parts of Europe.

So what's a host country to do? The first thing they need to do is acknowledge the potential for the kind of situation I outlined to develop, and then devise a plan to either prevent it from happening, or counter it if it's already happened. And that involves discussing the issue but, if every time someone tries to discuss it they are accused of racism, then the discussion is going to go nowhere and the problems will never be solved.

Which is exactly what's happened and is happening in Europe, where stifling the debate has simply allowed the problem to fester and grow.

[the truth]

exactly

[The Green Barbarian]

Which is exactly what's happened and is happening in Europe, where stifling the debate has simply allowed the problem to fester and grow.

and in Rotherham England thousands of young girls to be raped.

[the truth]

correct