Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby ferri » Sep 14th, 2018, 11:30 am

I thought some of you might be interested in this.

The city has spent $86.7 million on homeless services in 2018. Nearly $10 million of that was for cleanup and unauthorized encampment removal.


Article here:
https://www.krem.com/article/news/seatt ... /594217722

According to a friend of mine that lives there "the problem has gotten exponentially worse and far more dangerous JUST within the last year."
“When someone is nasty or treats you poorly, don't take it personally. It says nothing about you, but a lot about them.” ― Michael Josephson

2 people like this post.
User avatar
ferri
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 44870
Likes: 15004 posts
Liked in: 9510 posts
Joined: May 11th, 2005, 2:21 pm

Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Ka-El » Sep 14th, 2018, 12:49 pm

Very interesting. What to do, what to do? More money invested into education, family services, job training and mental health and addiction could help to alleviate some of the problem before it happens (saving money in the long run), but there doesn't seem to be an effective solution for the issue after the fact. Maybe one day we'll realize it's better to invest the money up front. All these cuts to social spending only cost us so much more at the end of the day (as one example, it has been shown that enforcement and punishment costs up to ten times as much as harm reduction and treatment with drug addiction). Oh well.
The ability to suspend judgment and change your mind when warranted is a distinguishing feature of critical thought
– apparently not recognizable to those who don’t have the ability.

"I don't know what this means"

ferri likes this post.
User avatar
Ka-El
Guru
 
Posts: 6203
Likes: 3291 posts
Liked in: 5577 posts
Joined: Oct 18th, 2015, 8:19 am

Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Catsumi » Sep 22nd, 2018, 6:27 am

Ferri, I am uncertain as to what your friend means when she says the situation worsened.
Did the free homes attract more of homeless also wanting free housing?
Did the homeless reject the free housing, preferring to live on streets?

87 million US dollars is about 100 million Cdn. THAT is a mountain of cash for one city to throw at the problem only to result in failure.

Does Seattle also fund the safe injection sites, revival kits and standby emergency medical care too, as we do?
2015 JUST-IN. 2019 JUST-OUT

There is nothing government can give you that it hasn't taken from you in the first place.
Winston Churchill

Jflem1983 likes this post.
User avatar
Catsumi
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3619
Likes: 4111 posts
Liked in: 3123 posts
Joined: May 24th, 2017, 7:26 pm

Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby The Green Barbarian » Sep 23rd, 2018, 2:47 pm

I was in Vernon yesterday and turned left at Polson Park. Suddenly to my right there appeared a large homeless encampment right on the side of the highway. Two people, obviously under the influence, wavered dangerously in front of my car as I weaved to avoid them.

I was speaking to someone who has worked with homeless shelters in the past, and in their opinion, there is a segment of society that just will never be able to support itself, no matter how much money is given to them or how much "job training" they get. They either have debilitating mental illnesses, or addictions to drugs and alcohol that have damaged their bodies and brains beyond repair. What do we do with these people? Is there anything you can do?

I met some people from San Fran while on a recent trip, and they told me that San Fran has become a giant toilet. There is human fecal matter on the streets everywhere. The city is just falling apart. They are getting out. What do you do?

Ten people holding a sign on a road shouldn't be able to stop thousands of people from making a living. The needs of the many must come ahead of the lunacy of the few.

2019 - The year we get rid of the Liberals and their drunken farm wife spending.
User avatar
The Green Barbarian
Admiral HMS Castanet
 
Posts: 29776
Likes: 13219 posts
Liked in: 17978 posts
Joined: Sep 16th, 2010, 8:13 am

Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby bob vernon » Sep 24th, 2018, 8:11 am

People who traffic in hard drugs like Fentanyl, Carfentanyl, heroin, and crack should face the death penalty. No matter how often we send dealers to jail, there are always more to take their place. And the number who re-offend is huge. These dealers knowingly destroy these lives for profit. Addicts will sink to whatever level it takes to get their next hit. Only permanent removal of dealers will work.
bob vernon
Grand Pooh-bah
 
Posts: 2368
Likes: 8 posts
Liked in: 1324 posts
Joined: Oct 27th, 2008, 9:37 am

Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby seewood » Sep 24th, 2018, 8:30 am

bob vernon wrote:People who traffic in hard drugs like Fentanyl, Carfentanyl, heroin, and crack should face the death penalty. No matter how often we send dealers to jail, there are always more to take their place. And the number who re-offend is huge. These dealers knowingly destroy these lives for profit. Addicts will sink to whatever level it takes to get their next hit. Only permanent removal of dealers will work.


Wonder if shipping them to the Philippines is an option?
I am not wealthy but I am rich

Jflem1983 likes this post.
seewood
Übergod
 
Posts: 1263
Likes: 2821 posts
Liked in: 1284 posts
Joined: May 29th, 2013, 1:08 pm

Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby ferri » Sep 24th, 2018, 9:25 am

Catsumi wrote:Ferri, I am uncertain as to what your friend means when she says the situation worsened.
Did the free homes attract more of homeless also wanting free housing?
Did the homeless reject the free housing, preferring to live on streets?

87 million US dollars is about 100 million Cdn. THAT is a mountain of cash for one city to throw at the problem only to result in failure.

Does Seattle also fund the safe injection sites, revival kits and standby emergency medical care too, as we do?


Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I messaged her on facebook. Here's our conversation. :)

I sent your questions Catsumi, and she answered:
Yeah, the homeless are completely rejecting any type of assistance and doing drugs out in the open and SPD doesn't do anything about it!


So I said:
Wow. And they probably won't be leaving for winter. It sounds pretty unsafe, I would imagine crime is up.


Her answer:
Exactly, just for our corporate office in the past 3 months we've had to spend thousands of dollars just to increase security. We had four groups of different types of handy guys around the building working last Thursday.
Working on fencing, electricity, door locks, and new lighting for outside so our office now looks like a car lot at night.
“When someone is nasty or treats you poorly, don't take it personally. It says nothing about you, but a lot about them.” ― Michael Josephson

2 people like this post.
User avatar
ferri
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 44870
Likes: 15004 posts
Liked in: 9510 posts
Joined: May 11th, 2005, 2:21 pm

Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Catsumi » Sep 24th, 2018, 11:00 am

Thanks Ferri for going the extra mile.

It would be crystal clear from the above reply and your link that burning 100 million Cdn trying to fix the problem is a complete and total waste.

The bandaid solution of providing security for folks while at work isn't protection for after hours. Those employed folks are on their own then.

After businesses close or move away and home owners do as well, will all N. American cities be abandoned to zombie-like creatures? What a horror.

It would be nice if the supply chain of illegal drugs was pinched off at source and dealer-wise. Political will and enforcements is just not there so I do think drug related problems will only get worse. Think, ten years from now .....yikes.

I'm sure we all got a chuckle at yesterdays news. 20 million bucks worth stashed into a banana shipment destined for a prison! Someone must have been pretty confident that the drugs would arrive safely, otherwise why commit such a huge dollar amount to a "first time" shipment. Also makes me wonder just who was to accept delivery, oversee distribution and collect payment for the products.

DEA just might be setting up chat time with kitchen staff. I certainly would.

Hand in glove.
Last edited by Catsumi on Sep 24th, 2018, 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2015 JUST-IN. 2019 JUST-OUT

There is nothing government can give you that it hasn't taken from you in the first place.
Winston Churchill
User avatar
Catsumi
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3619
Likes: 4111 posts
Liked in: 3123 posts
Joined: May 24th, 2017, 7:26 pm

Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Queen K » Sep 24th, 2018, 11:13 am

[quote="The Green Barbarian"]I was in Vernon yesterday and turned left at Polson Park. Suddenly to my right there appeared a large homeless encampment right on the side of the highway. Two people, obviously under the influence, wavered dangerously in front of my car as I weaved to avoid them.

I was speaking to someone who has worked with homeless shelters in the past, and in their opinion, there is a segment of society that just will never be able to support itself, no matter how much money is given to them or how much "job training" they get. They either have debilitating mental illnesses, or addictions to drugs and alcohol that have damaged their bodies and brains beyond repair. What do we do with these people? Is there anything you can do?

<snip>

Kelowna has houses for the mentally ill, they look like normal houses on the outside, you'd never know otherwise. No "job training" saves these guys, they don't even have to cut their own house lawn because workers are sent in to do it for them. No sense in putting tools in their hands.

But we need about 100 more of them, maybe more. Sad isn't it?
Could it be that a whole life can shift the day one starts telling the truth about what makes one happy? New Years Resolution: Take more road trips.

The Green Barbarian likes this post.
User avatar
Queen K
Queen of the Castle
 
Posts: 54511
Likes: 12951 posts
Liked in: 13739 posts
Joined: Jan 31st, 2007, 11:39 am
Location: What? You mean here?

Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Catsumi » Sep 24th, 2018, 5:56 pm

As seen by above posts, throwing millions of dollars into trying to solve the problem just is NOT working.
2015 JUST-IN. 2019 JUST-OUT

There is nothing government can give you that it hasn't taken from you in the first place.
Winston Churchill
User avatar
Catsumi
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3619
Likes: 4111 posts
Liked in: 3123 posts
Joined: May 24th, 2017, 7:26 pm

Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Ka-El » Sep 25th, 2018, 3:54 am

Catsumi wrote:As seen by above posts, throwing millions of dollars into trying to solve the problem just is NOT working.

It rarely does after the fact. It would be nice to see us invest more up front (education, family services, mental health and addiction) to address some of the issues that underlie and lead to homelessness (and other problems).
The ability to suspend judgment and change your mind when warranted is a distinguishing feature of critical thought
– apparently not recognizable to those who don’t have the ability.

"I don't know what this means"
User avatar
Ka-El
Guru
 
Posts: 6203
Likes: 3291 posts
Liked in: 5577 posts
Joined: Oct 18th, 2015, 8:19 am

Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Catsumi » Sep 25th, 2018, 10:25 am

I agree that it would be a boon to head off problems before they become major societal and personal issues.

Unless you have a one to one minder for each young individual, how are we to pinpoint those who are going to be future problems? It is expensive all the way around. We already have costly social services and still wind up paying for the homeless, mentally ill and drug addicted in the end.

There seems no way out of this growing problem unless (as some wish) we spend even more; as Seattle example has shown, that isn't the answer either.
2015 JUST-IN. 2019 JUST-OUT

There is nothing government can give you that it hasn't taken from you in the first place.
Winston Churchill
User avatar
Catsumi
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3619
Likes: 4111 posts
Liked in: 3123 posts
Joined: May 24th, 2017, 7:26 pm

Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Catsumi » Sep 26th, 2018, 4:30 pm

The Green Barbarian wrote:I was in Vernon yesterday and turned left at Polson Park. Suddenly to my right there appeared a large homeless encampment right on the side of the highway. Two people, obviously under the influence, wavered dangerously in front of my car as I weaved to avoid them.

I was speaking to someone who has worked with homeless shelters in the past, and in their opinion, there is a segment of society that just will never be able to support itself, no matter how much money is given to them or how much "job training" they get. They either have debilitating mental illnesses, or addictions to drugs and alcohol that have damaged their bodies and brains beyond repair. What do we do with these people? Is there anything you can do?

I met some people from San Fran while on a recent trip, and they told me that San Fran has become a giant toilet. There is human fecal matter on the streets everywhere. The city is just falling apart. They are getting out. What do you do?



Just now had time to view the link. Thanks for a heads up, GB. I was to attend a convention in San Francisco next Autumn but would rather spend my hard earned tourist bucks in Japan, a country that is safe, clean and Sane! (No shitte on streets, not even dogcrap, no grafitti or trash, no aimless folk shooting up.

One fellow in the video said he was from a third world country but not as bad as it is in SF. That says a lot.

As in Seattle, San Francisco and our own cities, throwing funds wildly about is NOT helping one little bit. Those who are in favor of doing so must be benefitting somehow in this gawd-awful fecal trail.

The video, if it could have been possible to air thirty years before, would have been decried and laughed at. Impossible to believe that our North American cities could have devolved into such sorry, pathetic sights.

Now, if only we could see thirty years into the future ....will it be even worse or will the problem be magically cured?

:200:
2015 JUST-IN. 2019 JUST-OUT

There is nothing government can give you that it hasn't taken from you in the first place.
Winston Churchill

The Green Barbarian likes this post.
User avatar
Catsumi
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3619
Likes: 4111 posts
Liked in: 3123 posts
Joined: May 24th, 2017, 7:26 pm

Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby honkonbobo » Sep 27th, 2018, 2:52 am

City Manager Bruce Moore and Vice Mayor Kathy Webb of Little Rock want to give jobs to the Homeless:
Pilot project that engages with the homeless.

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/201 ... ess-20180/
honkonbobo
Fledgling
 
Posts: 125
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 5 posts
Joined: Oct 2nd, 2006, 7:55 pm

Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Catsumi » Sep 27th, 2018, 10:11 am

^^^^ good find, honkonbobo

We must keep an eye on Little Rock, Tulsa and Albuquerie as try outs for this idea.

It is simple enough work that has been posed on these threads many times, pick up garbage, litter, weeding etc. and in return, be paid for the effort. The cities are not forcing anyone to shift their tails but there is incentive for those who may be bored to death with street lifestyle.

It is a small ray of hope for American cities but would it work here? We have so many rights that they seem to be impediments to correcting our ills.
2015 JUST-IN. 2019 JUST-OUT

There is nothing government can give you that it hasn't taken from you in the first place.
Winston Churchill

The Green Barbarian likes this post.
User avatar
Catsumi
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3619
Likes: 4111 posts
Liked in: 3123 posts
Joined: May 24th, 2017, 7:26 pm

Next

Return to World

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 1 guest