Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Ka-El » Sep 27th, 2018, 12:36 pm

Catsumi wrote: It is simple enough work that has been posed on these threads many times, pick up garbage, litter, weeding etc. and in return, be paid for the effort. The cities are not forcing anyone to shift their tails but there is incentive for those who may be bored to death with street lifestyle.

We had some very similar programs being delivered in our province at one time, that in addition to community benefiting work experience, also addressed participant’s barriers to employment and delivered lifes skills and employment preparation training. Our own research showed that after program costs we were providing the province with immediate significant savings by moving people off the welfare rolls. We presumed additional savings and benefits would be realized as these people eventually started contributing to the tax base, and via reduced crime and reduced health costs. Then a new government came in and this type of approach, in spite of its demonstrated benefits, didn’t fit with their ideology. It worked very well for the five years they lasted though and got hundreds of people who had been chronically unemployed off welfare.
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Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Catsumi » Sep 27th, 2018, 1:00 pm

I don't recall this program unless it was sometime around when Vanderzalm said "give them a shovel".

In any case it would seem it is about time to revive it, get folks off the street (at least part time), have them contribute something of value to society and most important, to themselves.

My age group (now senior) was taught by our parents that just giving endlessly to kids doesn't help them realize the effort that went into working to be able to purchase the desired items. At the time it seemed harsh to do chores, earn an allowance and be responsible. TV shows directed at kids were pretty much the same as now with endless ads showing us what to want next; TV parents were so generous with their TV children adding to the feeling of being done hard by. However, no regrets here. We know the price of everything and its value. Not many of us wound up on the streets whereas now it seems to be an epidemic.

Something went wrong in between generations of raising kids. Perhaps a root cause of streeting is parenting, or the lack of same. Values not taught? Just a thought.

In any case what we are doing now, isn't working very well. Maybe you, Ka-el could provide more details so that we can approach our political masters with the concept of working for pay to reduce streeting issues.
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Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Ka-El » Sep 27th, 2018, 2:05 pm

Catsumi wrote:I don't recall this program unless it was sometime around when Vanderzalm said "give them a shovel". In any case it would seem it is about time to revive it, get folks off the street (at least part time), have them contribute something of value to society and most important, to themselves.

It was actually during the Glen Clark/Ujjal Dosanjh era that these programs were being delivered. Unfortunately, with the polarized nature of BC politics, when a new government comes in the first order of business seems to be to discontinue everything the previous government had put in place – no matter what, and without considering whether any benefit was being realized. In this case we had a particularly petulant and spiteful politician come in with a very different mindset and trying to help marginalized people to find value in themselves was not really at the top of his list of things to do.

Something went wrong in between generations of raising kids. Perhaps a root cause of streeting is parenting, or the lack of same. Values not taught? Just a thought.

Whether folk want to realize it or not the world has been changing - with demographics (less stay at home moms), increased cost of living with stagnant wage increases (requiring both parents to work more), technology (with both its benefits and threats), etc. In today’s world it is unrealistic to assume all children are going to have all there development needs met by their parents (even more unrealistic to assume all children are going have an equal chance in that regard) and we are going to have to accept there is a role to be played by our community and educational systems. We have to approach these issues with a more collective attitude, or we will continue to collectively pay for neglecting them, or just trying to blame someone else (very popular among conservative thinkers).

In any case what we are doing now, isn't working very well. Maybe you, Ka-el could provide more details so that we can approach our political masters with the concept of working for pay to reduce streeting issues.

All I can say is we have to start thinking and acting like a community instead of a bunch of individuals who just happen to be living in the same place. Sadly, when anyone starts talking about concepts like social or collective responsibility someone will quickly cry “communism!” and that’s as far as we get. It’s much easier to blame the homeless and drug-addicted for being homeless and drug-addicted than it is to recognize we are really all in this together. The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members - Mahatma Gandhi
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Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Catsumi » Sep 27th, 2018, 2:10 pm

This all makes me wonder what the Japanese society is doing right that we are lacking in ours.

We really do need to look at other countries' successes, or nearer to success than our path.

Added: I have been considering your above post whilst doing chores. I agree with what you are saying, that we must all approach the problem together, free of political ideologies, bite the bullet and find the best means possible to eradicate the Streeter issue.

However, being old as dirt, I know this can never happen within my shortening days. Maybe in the future? I certainly hope so, but in the meantime will watch for results in the American experiment. One thing good about the Tulsa situation is that they're not emptying the taxpayers wallet in order to to get some of them off the sidewalks.

Sometimes the most obvious solution doesn't cost much.

However, it does not address the hard core, mentally ill or severely addicted; Utopia not entirely possible anywhere it seems. I love visiting Japan....a breath of fresh air. How do they do it with their huge population and all the costly earthquakes, typhoons and flooding problems that must gobble up a lot of taxed money to effect repairs?
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Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby ferri » Nov 2nd, 2018, 6:21 pm

Just an update on what Seattle is doing...or not doing?

Seattle cracks down on property owners who post signs to deter homeless RVs


SEATTLE - Seattle business owners say they are plagued by issues with homeless people living in RVs parked by their businesses and the city is going after them for trying to do something about it.

KIRO 7 got copies of letters from SDOT to multiple property owners saying the “no-parking” signs posted on their buildings are a “public nuisance.”


More here:
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/seattl ... /865268221
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Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Catsumi » Nov 3rd, 2018, 7:41 pm

It appears to be much the same as here Ferri. The peeps who own businesses and homes suffer both ways with this homeless/addict situation.

In one case they get no help from authorities to deal with the problems.

In the second, the officers go after those who have tried to deal with the problem.

We need a new (to us) model and again I say, look to Japan.
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Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Queen K » Nov 3rd, 2018, 7:52 pm

Ka-El wrote:
Catsumi wrote: It is simple enough work that has been posed on these threads many times, pick up garbage, litter, weeding etc. and in return, be paid for the effort. The cities are not forcing anyone to shift their tails but there is incentive for those who may be bored to death with street lifestyle.

We had some very similar programs being delivered in our province at one time, that in addition to community benefiting work experience, also addressed participant’s barriers to employment and delivered lifes skills and employment preparation training. Our own research showed that after program costs we were providing the province with immediate significant savings by moving people off the welfare rolls. We presumed additional savings and benefits would be realized as these people eventually started contributing to the tax base, and via reduced crime and reduced health costs. Then a new government came in and this type of approach, in spite of its demonstrated benefits, didn’t fit with their ideology. It worked very well for the five years they lasted though and got hundreds of people who had been chronically unemployed off welfare.


Oh Ka-el, it is much easier to kick peope down according to some here. Provide addresses to the homeless so they can get into programs? Just kick it down. Kick down the homeless who have no address. Kick down the unskilled worker, jack up tuitions.

We've created a society all for the rich.
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Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Jlabute » Nov 3rd, 2018, 8:17 pm

We listed a room for rent one time 20 years back, and the ministry came by with an 18yo girl all cured and everything, or according to them, ready to get in to the real world. She could have done something to improve her situation, but instead began bringing johns in to our home at 2am, flushing drugs down the sink or toilet whenever the ministry dropped in, putting little white piles of ‘something’ on top of her coffee grinds every morning which wasn’t a sweetener, walking around the house naked totally out of her mind... the ministry just stopped taking our calls and basically said it was our problem.
The Johns was the last straw. At the time we asked her to leave, she overdosed herself so she could be admitted to hospital. We see her occasionally around the neighbourhood.

It is a tough cycle to break. It really requires the love and patience of a parent to raise them over again from scratch.
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Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Jflem1983 » Nov 4th, 2018, 10:35 am

We've created a society all for the rich.[/quote]


I disagree. I went to college on student loans. Took what was supposed to be a great trade. Passed the course. Paid back the loans. Never found so much as an interview. Not one person i went to school with is working full time as far as i know. Most gave up on that trade years ago.

Cost me many thousands . Of borrowed money paid back at small rate. Really had i been so inclined. I could have packed off to Saskatoon. Gotten a job. Finished my education. I made some different choices.


What i am trying to say. Even if you are broke. You can still bust you ash and go to school. Even today.
As an added bonus they put the course in Penticton. So i bought a little Honda for that time.

I read today Seattle spends 7400 dollars per year per homeless person. That is just the city.


Think about that. That is tuition.
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Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby coffeeFreak » Nov 4th, 2018, 11:59 am

The homeless have become "institutionalised" by a structure that is set up and functions only as a band-aid solution rather than creating a system that begins much earlier in a person's life. As it is now, IMO, it's a make work project for the booming business of homelessness. The group of called "homeless" are broken, screwed up, many mentally ill or suffering childhood traumas are receiving a ridiculous amount of attention, yet not learning anything about how to address their emotional, mental and physical health other than to carry a naloxone group in case they OD. It takes a lot of work to learn or reintegrate into what are considered societal norms of functioning after any length of time of living this way, from basics like personal cleanliness to budgeting to accessing services that will support their "new" lifestyle. These "band-aid" services do not walk that extra mile with them unless their clients are capable of jumping through the system's hoops of accessing services, such as housing, food, income assistance, employment, doctors, mental health services, detox, treatment, let alone build a supportive social type network, such as what any of the "Anonymous" programs or organised religion might provide. This takes a level of commitment and time, and definitely requires time management and an ability plan ahead. It is also necessary to have a phone and/or access to the internet nowadays.

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Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Catsumi » Nov 9th, 2018, 7:44 pm

Just watched on news (King 5) that Olympia, Wa has had tent city increase from 30 to 300. Angst and alarm

So, what they are doing is locating them all on city property where city workers pick up trash, supply toilets, give new tents for tattered ones. Then they intend to fence it in. Those inside MUST obey rules.

This is the best they can do until someone figures out a solution to ever growing problem

Good luck. We need an Einstein to tackle this conundrum and come up with an answer. We ignore with both eyes and ears what Japan has done.
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Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Jflem1983 » Nov 9th, 2018, 8:04 pm

Catsumi wrote:Just watched on news (King 5) that Olympia, Wa has had tent city increase from 30 to 300. Angst and alarm

So, what they are doing is locating them all on city property where city workers pick up trash, supply toilets, give new tents for tattered ones. Then they intend to fence it in. Those inside MUST obey rules.

This is the best they can do until someone figures out a solution to ever growing problem

Good luck. We need an Einstein to tackle this conundrum and come up with an answer. We ignore with both eyes and ears what Japan has done.



Dont they have the jobs core in the USA for people who end up needing it. We could have something like that here.

https://www.jobcorps.gov
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Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Glacier » Nov 15th, 2018, 4:56 pm

So San Francisco is going to spend $75,000/year per homeless person to end homelessness. That's like $90,000 Canada. Because throwing more money at a problem always fixes it.
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Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Jflem1983 » Nov 15th, 2018, 6:16 pm

Glacier wrote:So San Francisco is going to spend $75,000/year per homeless person to end homelessness. That's like $90,000 Canada. Because throwing more money at a problem always fixes it.




Hawaii pays 85k Canadian a year for welfare . Unreal.
Guess the easiest way to get ahead today. Become a useless junkie. Let the Government pay your way. 90k a year
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Re: Seattle goes back to drawing board on homeless spending

Postby Queen K » Nov 15th, 2018, 6:20 pm

Jflem1983 wrote:
Glacier wrote:So San Francisco is going to spend $75,000/year per homeless person to end homelessness. That's like $90,000 Canada. Because throwing more money at a problem always fixes it.




Hawaii pays 85k Canadian a year for welfare . Unreal.
Guess the easiest way to get ahead today. Become a useless junkie. Let the Government pay your way. 90k a year


Oh man, how do I get to land a gig like that? Do nothing for something...
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