Castanet

Queen K wrote:Now if only any of those candidates had included in their platform, "raking the forest floor as they do on a regular basis in Finland."

A sure shoo in would have been had.

Suck at politics indeed.

Yes, #RakeAmericaGreatAgain.



I think it's great idea, a really wonderful idea.

(Provided it doesn't cost any money and someone else does it.)

We know from our own fires that Trump is right about the mismanagement of the forests in California, they are given billions of federal dollars to deal with the problem but the moneys are spent elsewhere. In the land of Governor Moonbeam they believe in leaving all the fuel for the fires in a natural state, and there in lies the problem.

Queen K wrote:Now if only any of those candidates had included in their platform, "raking the forest floor as they do on a regular basis in Finland."

What the president of Finland said:

Finnish president says he briefed Trump on forest monitoring

November 18, 2018

HELSINKI (AP) — Finland’s president says that he briefed U.S. President Donald Trump amid the California wildfires on how the Nordic country effectively monitors its substantial forest resources with a well-working surveillance system.

President Sauli Niinisto said in an interview published Sunday in the Ilta-Sanomat newspaper that he told Trump during their brief meeting in Paris on Nov. 11 that “Finland is a country covered by forests but we also have a good surveillance system and network” in case of wildfires.

Trump said Saturday in northern California that wildfires weren’t a problem in Finland because the Finns “spend a lot of time on raking” leaves and “cleaning and doing things.”

Niinisto said he told Trump “we take care of our forests,” but said that he can’t recall anything being mentioned on raking.

Finland is the same latitude as the BC Yukon border. Kinda different than California.
The Nordic countries used to manage and clean their forest floors, however they found they removed the natural nutrients and sometimes took to fertilizing the forest. More detritus is now left on the forests floor.

monilynno wrote:We know from our own fires that Trump is right about the mismanagement of the forests in California, they are given billions of federal dollars to deal with the problem but the moneys are spent elsewhere. In the land of Governor Moonbeam they believe in leaving all the fuel for the fires in a natural state, and there in lies the problem.

Problem being no one has been able to come up with a solution to get rid of the bug killing the trees.
i.e mountain pine beetle

Added later: add in drought conditions, combination = tinderbox

CA Gov. Jerry Brown Vetoed Bipartisan Wildfire Management Bill in 2016
https://sacramentocitizen.wordpress.com ... 38WauwcrDw

Again, this is not a forest fire. It is an urban infrastructure fire.

monilynno wrote:We know from our own fires that Trump is right about the mismanagement of the forests in California, they are given billions of federal dollars to deal with the problem but the moneys are spent elsewhere. In the land of Governor Moonbeam they believe in leaving all the fuel for the fires in a natural state, and there in lies the problem.

For me, perhaps one of the proudest moments of being a British Columbian came during the 2017 fire season. Which, as you may recall, happened while we were transitioning gov't from one party to another. Lock step were the politician on both sides of the floor in their resolve to get the task at hand accomplished. Politics has no business being played while people’s lives, livelihoods and communities are in the wind.

Mr. Trump is far from "right" in his empty talking point. The federal Government manages 57 percent of forested lands in California, the state manages 2 percent and the remaining forest is under the stewardship of private owners. The Camp fire has burned close to 88,000 acres of federally managed forest.

That is, of course, a mere distraction from the real problem at hand. I don't deny that forests are being mismanaged and more could be done, however the popular "go to" management solutions tend to exacerbate the situation far more than provide relief.

We're really talking about two separate problems here. Forests burn. (full stop) That's not going to change and if by some chance it ever does, we won't be here to witness that change. The cali fires, Woolsey and Camp fire, are both examples of an entirely different problem.

Compare your picture to this one below. California is a state with more than 39 million people, many of them living in Wildland Urban Interface areas. Surely, you can see a difference between a vegetative fire razing a stand of red and dead timber and this fire, which emerged from federally managed forest lands and burned houses, infrastructure and the amenities of an entire town.

When I review your post, it is obvious to me this, is not that.

removed.

Paradise, or also known as Pair-o-dice from the Saloon back from the gold mining days is exactly that, a place where you take your chances. The Sierra slope retirement town has had about 8 horrendous fires since 1927. The risk of wild fires in this area is always critical. There will be more fires here in the future and the fires will seem worse as the town grows through forested areas. (if it grows after this). Calgary is similar in that the city floods from time to time and has been doing this for 100s of years and no one wants to change anything. Unfortunately forest management will still be frowned upon, just as Calgary is ok with the risk of flood seeing a mitigation plan would cost billions. If one does not do anything, then they are ok with the risk.

Late Friday afternoon PG&E alerted California regulators to a second occurrence:

Summary:

On November 8, 2018, at approximately 0645 hours, PG&E experienced an outage on the Big Bend 1101 12kV Circuit in Butte County. CAL FIRE has collected PG&E equipment on that circuit. CAL FIRE has secured a location near PG&E facilities on that circuit. This information is preliminary. PG&E is cooperating with CAL FIRE.

This information came out just days after media reported the possibility of a second fire start captured by "firewatch cameras". Here's the initial dispatch information on the second start.

Power company under pressure to explain actions before California wildfire

Some victims of California's worst-ever wildfire are asking why the state's largest utility didn't shut off power in areas that were at high risk. The death toll from the Camp Fire is up to 77, and that number is likely to rise.

Nearly 1,000 other people are unaccounted for. In 11 days, the fire has destroyed more than 10,000 homes north of Sacramento, the state's capital.

Pacific Gas & Electric said two of its power lines failed in areas where the fire broke out a short time before the first flames were reported. It highlighted one failure the day the fire began but then waited more than a week to report the second until more information was available.

PG&E said the fire forecast did not meet the criteria for a "public safety power shutoff." The cause of the fire is still under investigation.

More here: https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/fires ... 5-QEuJYzHU

ferri wrote:Power company under pressure to explain actions before California wildfire

Some victims of California's worst-ever wildfire are asking why the state's largest utility didn't shut off power in areas that were at high risk. The death toll from the Camp Fire is up to 77, and that number is likely to rise.

Nearly 1,000 other people are unaccounted for. In 11 days, the fire has destroyed more than 10,000 homes north of Sacramento, the state's capital.

Pacific Gas & Electric said two of its power lines failed in areas where the fire broke out a short time before the first flames were reported. It highlighted one failure the day the fire began but then waited more than a week to report the second until more information was available.

PG&E said the fire forecast did not meet the criteria for a "public safety power shutoff." The cause of the fire is still under investigation.

More here: https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/fires ... 5-QEuJYzHU

Easy to sexond guess after the fact.

Of course the utility company is going to be under fire for decisions made - especially because of sparks:

Two days before the fire started, PG&E told customers in nine counties, including Butte County, that it might shut off their power Nov. 8 because of extreme fire danger. The fire started about 6:30 a.m. that morning.

https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2018/11 ... camp-fire/