Ukraine war/President/news

Mazdatruck
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Re: Ukraine war/President/news

Post by Mazdatruck »

Silverstarqueen wrote: May 9th, 2023, 12:40 pm I'm curious what you think peace in Ukraine would look like, after over a year of Russia moving in tanks and bombing civilians in their homes, as they flee, bombing their hospitals, killing them in their own streets as they cycle out to get groceries?
Easy to say "I'm in favor of peace", but how would that be accomplished? Would Russians withdraw from ukraine and stop attacking them if they had a chance to do it?
Ukraine was not minding it's own business when Russia started their military operation.

Ukraine was accepting NATO troops and NATO was training up Ukrainians to kill Russians.

Peace in Ukraine means a neutral Ukraine. Russia would withdraw immediately if they were assured that Ukraine would not join NATO and that no hostile weapons would be placed in Ukraine.

The US/NATO won't let Ukraine be neutral. The US wants all of Ukraines riches and natural resources and in order to grab them Ukraine has to be part of NATO and all the corruption needs to flow in US dollars. People like Hunter Biden and other connected oligarchs will all be given pieces of Ukraine. All that money ends up away from Ukraine and back in the US.

This war is about one single question :

Is Ukraine allowed to be hostile towards Russia?

Ukraine picked up a gun and pointed it at Russia.

Russia is slapping the gun out of their hand.
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Re: Ukraine war/President/news

Post by Mazdatruck »

Dead right wrote: May 9th, 2023, 12:33 pm And if you get that by attacking them good luck.
russia does not have the right to tell any other country how to act.
Why did the US invade Cuba?

There were no nuclear missiles there.
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Re: Ukraine war/President/news

Post by Silverstarqueen »

Mazdatruck wrote: May 9th, 2023, 3:11 pm
Silverstarqueen wrote: May 9th, 2023, 12:40 pm I'm curious what you think peace in Ukraine would look like, after over a year of Russia moving in tanks and bombing civilians in their homes, as they flee, bombing their hospitals, killing them in their own streets as they cycle out to get groceries?
Easy to say "I'm in favor of peace", but how would that be accomplished? Would Russians withdraw from ukraine and stop attacking them if they had a chance to do it?
Ukraine was not minding it's own business when Russia started their military operation.

Ukraine was accepting NATO troops and NATO was training up Ukrainians to kill Russians.

Peace in Ukraine means a neutral Ukraine. Russia would withdraw immediately if they were assured that Ukraine would not join NATO and that no hostile weapons would be placed in Ukraine.

The US/NATO won't let Ukraine be neutral. The US wants all of Ukraines riches and natural resources and in order to grab them Ukraine has to be part of NATO and all the corruption needs to flow in US dollars. People like Hunter Biden and other connected oligarchs will all be given pieces of Ukraine. All that money ends up away from Ukraine and back in the US.

This war is about one single question :

Is Ukraine allowed to be hostile towards Russia?

Ukraine picked up a gun and pointed it at Russia.

Russia is slapping the gun out of their hand.
So we come down to a philosophical question, should a country be allowed to prepare its troups for defense of it's borders, while another country is lining up tanks, and conducting "exercises near the border", with promises they would not invade Ukraine. And then the Russians attempted to take over the airport and the government of the day, which was unsuccessful, so they went on a bombing spree. Was that designed to reduce Ukraine's antipathy toward Russia? or win them over?
Is Ukraine allowed to be hostile to Russian troups invading their country and bombing the hell out of civilians living in their cities?
Putin said he was not going to invade. Then he did it anyway. So talking peace with a guy like that is not going to go well, how can they negotiate anything with a guy they can't trust?
Was Ukraine about to invade Russia? or did Russia invade ukraine?
Does ukraine have the right to defend itself against troups which are bombing its cities and killing its people?
Suppose Russia had not invaded Ukraine, wouldn't it have been more peaceful than what has occurred for the last 15 months, if peace was their objective.
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Re: Ukraine war/President/news

Post by Mazdatruck »

Silverstarqueen wrote: May 9th, 2023, 3:32 pm So we come down to a philosophical question, should a country be allowed to prepare its troups for defense of it's borders, while another country is lining up tanks, and conducting "exercises near the border", with promises they would not invade Ukraine.
If you view NATO as defensive that's your misunderstanding. NATO is not defending against Russia. Russia hasn't moved. NATO has surrounded Russia and is actively pointing weapons at Russia. The Soviet Union fell but NATO kept expanding. NATO is defending against nothing...yet they are expanding and growing larger. Only now when Russia is forced to protect themselves everyone screams that "Russia is trying to take over the world!". It's a lie of epic size. NATO just took over half of Europe and keeps moving weapons closer and closer to Russia. Russia wasn't threatening anyone.

After the Soviet Union fell Russia was promised that NATO would not move one inch to the east. Ukraine being part of NATO has been Russia's red-line since the Soviet Union fell. This is historically documented.

I want to engage with you but it's very difficult when you are 100% indoctrinated with "NATO is the good guys" viewpoint. I have been anti-war since Vietnam and it hasn't been Russia going around the world for the last 50 years starting wars and taking over countries. There was nothing, zero, nada interest for Canada to bring Ukraine into NATO. Hunter Biden is not my friend and I do not support killing people so he and his buddies can make $70,000 dollars a month in Ukraine.

The US regime change Ukraine in 2014, criminal corrupt people like Hunter Biden were placed in key infrastructure and high dollar roles in the country and they were in the process of setting up NATO weapons which were hostile towards Russia in Russia's backyard. There is zero evidence that Russia wanted to invade Ukraine and capture it and there is zero evidence that Ukraine had anything to fear from Russia - unless they picked up the NATO gun and pointed it at Russia's head.

Ukraine does not have a right to be hostile towards anyone.

Russia is preventing them from being hostile.
Was Ukraine about to invade Russia? or did Russia invade ukraine?
NATO moving into Ukraine is EXACTLY like when Russia moved nuclear missilies into Cuba. Was Cuba about to invade the US? No. But the US would not accept a threat that close to their border.

NATO in Ukraine is a threat that Russia will not accept.

Their lives are on the line from their perspective. Do you understand that?
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Re: Ukraine war/President/news

Post by gertlush »

Interesting philosophical questions but... its exactly that. Was it Rumsfeld who said something to the effect of "we create our own realities", ie the USA will do what it wants.

The West ia great at outrage, not so much critical thinking or strategy.
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Re: Ukraine war/President/news

Post by gertlush »

Leaving philosophy aside - the brutal reality is Ukraine continues to be ground to dust. That "counter offensive" withered on the vine pretty quick, no more big splashy headlines eh?

And away from the battlefield - Ukraine has already said they'll need another $60bil in financial support in the next year + moar gunz. Where's that coming from?

You should beware of people whom, when you ask them direct questions, respond with "why freedom and democracy of course"
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Re: Ukraine war/President/news

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Silverstarqueen wrote: May 9th, 2023, 3:32 pm ...should a country be allowed to prepare its troups for defense of it's borders, while another country is lining up tanks,...
Like Jeffrey Sachs said - PUTIN'S DEMANDS MADE SENSE.

I finally agree Russia has the absolute right to blow Ukraine to hell. Everyone with even one functioning brain cell
knows Ukraine should have stayed neutral, but instead to provoke Russia they started a genocide on Russian speaking people.

And then little clown Zelensky met with rich clown Fink to discuss important things - $$$$$$ money and the gobbling
of the breadbasket of the world by Blackrock.

The blood is not on Putin's hands, but on creeps like Vikki Nuland, Stinkin Blinken, Macron Vonder lying, and Chrystia Freeland
and all the crooked little war pigs in the West. Putin begged for peace. But the west is full of garbage that wanted war.

Image
Like Jeffrey Sachs said - PUTIN'S DEMANDS MADE SENSE.
WHEN WILL WESTERN WAR PIGS WIND THIS UKRAINIAN GENOCIDE DOWN?????????????

BBC says tens of thousands of Ukrainians have died and Zelensky needs hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians to replace them. Yes. BBC is just that dumb.
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Re: Ukraine war/President/news

Post by Drip_Torch »

gertlush wrote: May 9th, 2023, 5:51 pm Leaving philosophy aside - the brutal reality is Ukraine continues to be ground to dust. That "counter offensive" withered on the vine pretty quick, no more big splashy headlines eh?
3.2 km's wide and 2.6 km's deep. Nope, no headlines - no reporting, but not much left of 2 companies of the 72nd Brigade or the 3rd assault detachment of Wagner. What is left of the 72nd seems to be making a glorious advance in a rearward direction.

Not for everyone, you probably don't need to see it. Typical warnings, stupid people doing stupid things in a war zone with all the typical results you could probably imagine. https://twitter.com/i/status/1656107010390126592
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Re: Ukraine war/President/news

Post by Silverstarqueen »

Mazdatruck wrote: May 9th, 2023, 4:17 pm
Silverstarqueen wrote: May 9th, 2023, 3:32 pm So we come down to a philosophical question, should a country be allowed to prepare its troups for defense of it's borders, while another country is lining up tanks, and conducting "exercises near the border", with promises they would not invade Ukraine.
If you view NATO as defensive that's your misunderstanding. NATO is not defending against Russia. Russia hasn't moved. NATO has surrounded Russia and is actively pointing weapons at Russia. The Soviet Union fell but NATO kept expanding. NATO is defending against nothing...yet they are expanding and growing larger. Only now when Russia is forced to protect themselves everyone screams that "Russia is trying to take over the world!". It's a lie of epic size. NATO just took over half of Europe and keeps moving weapons closer and closer to Russia. Russia wasn't threatening anyone.

After the Soviet Union fell Russia was promised that NATO would not move one inch to the east. Ukraine being part of NATO has been Russia's red-line since the Soviet Union fell. This is historically documented.

I want to engage with you but it's very difficult when you are 100% indoctrinated with "NATO is the good guys" viewpoint. I have been anti-war since Vietnam and it hasn't been Russia going around the world for the last 50 years starting wars and taking over countries. There was nothing, zero, nada interest for Canada to bring Ukraine into NATO. Hunter Biden is not my friend and I do not support killing people so he and his buddies can make $70,000 dollars a month in Ukraine.

The US regime change Ukraine in 2014, criminal corrupt people like Hunter Biden were placed in key infrastructure and high dollar roles in the country and they were in the process of setting up NATO weapons which were hostile towards Russia in Russia's backyard. There is zero evidence that Russia wanted to invade Ukraine and capture it and there is zero evidence that Ukraine had anything to fear from Russia - unless they picked up the NATO gun and pointed it at Russia's head.

Ukraine does not have a right to be hostile towards anyone.

Russia is preventing them from being hostile.
Was Ukraine about to invade Russia? or did Russia invade ukraine?
NATO moving into Ukraine is EXACTLY like when Russia moved nuclear missilies into Cuba. Was Cuba about to invade the US? No. But the US would not accept a threat that close to their border.

NATO in Ukraine is a threat that Russia will not accept.

Their lives are on the line from their perspective. Do you understand that?
Just so I understand: are you saying Ukraine has no right to defend it's territory as Russian tanks invade, bomb their cities for over a year, and kill civilians in their own homes?

It appears that Ukraine is closer this year than ever to becoming part of Nato. Could the Russian invasion have been the tipping point for that process? Why wouldn't Ukraine want to keep the Russians out of Ukraine after what they have done. Before the invasion, it sounds like there was quite a bit of free trade and traffic between the two. Now I don't see how anything can be the same again.
Last edited by Silverstarqueen on May 9th, 2023, 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ukraine war/President/news

Post by Drip_Torch »

Silverstarqueen wrote: May 9th, 2023, 6:34 pm Before the invasion, it sounds like there was quite a bit of free trade and traffic between the two.
Yep, the best example is the Russian Cruiser "Moskva". Built in Ukraine, it was great ship for the Russian Navy and served when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008, when Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, in Syria in 2015 and it led the Russian naval assault of Ukraine in 2022... - but admittedly that story didn't end well for the Russians, so we should maybe overlook that last part.
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Re: Ukraine war/President/news

Post by Mazdatruck »

Silverstarqueen wrote: May 9th, 2023, 6:34 pm Just so I understand: are you saying Ukraine has no right to defend it's territory as Russian tanks invade, bomb their cities for over a year, and kill civilians in their own homes?
Russia is defending their territory.

Ukraine does not have a right to threaten Russia. The US regime changed the government there and they became hostile towards Russia. Russia warned about this for decades. The US pushed and pushed and pushed and Hunter Biden was there making corrupt money at the very end.

Russia should not have been pushed to this result, but here we are.
Before the invasion, it sounds like there was quite a bit of free trade and traffic between the two.
Much less after they regime changed Ukraine and put Hunter Biden and company moving in there to grab all the goods.
Last edited by Mazdatruck on May 9th, 2023, 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ukraine war/President/news

Post by gertlush »

Drip_Torch wrote: May 9th, 2023, 6:16 pm
gertlush wrote: May 9th, 2023, 5:51 pm Leaving philosophy aside - the brutal reality is Ukraine continues to be ground to dust. That "counter offensive" withered on the vine pretty quick, no more big splashy headlines eh?
3.2 km's wide and 2.6 km's deep. Nope, no headlines - no reporting, but not much left of 2 companies of the 72nd Brigade or the 3rd assault detachment of Wagner. What is left of the 72nd seems to be making a glorious advance in a rearward direction.
Sounds important, um, what is it?
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Re: Ukraine war/President/news

Post by gertlush »

Drip_Torch wrote: May 9th, 2023, 6:47 pm
Silverstarqueen wrote: May 9th, 2023, 6:34 pm Before the invasion, it sounds like there was quite a bit of free trade and traffic between the two.
Yep, the best example is the Russian Cruiser "Moskva". Built in Ukraine, it was great ship for the Russian Navy and served when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008, when Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, in Syria in 2015 and it led the Russian naval assault of Ukraine in 2022... - but admittedly that story didn't end well for the Russians, so we should maybe overlook that last part.
Your logic is faulty, thats like crediting Canada with the minivan just cause its built in Windsor.
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Re: Ukraine war/President/news

Post by seewood »

Mazdatruck wrote: May 9th, 2023, 6:55 pm Russia is defending their territory.
I have yet to see any reports of foreign troops massing at any Russian border in preparation of an attack on Russian sovereign soil. In fact I don't believe anyone is seeing a pending or actual attack on Russian soil. They have nukes and would be a stupid thing to do, just as stupid to claim Russia is defending its territory. Russia INVAIDED Ukraine last February, not the other way around.. right?
NATO is a defensive force originally devised to prevent any westward movement by Countries taken over by the communist Russia( Warsaw Pact). Today it is in place for exactly the same reason except Russia is not a communist country anymore, it is run by a deranged autocrat put in place by a corrupt voting system who has openly said that the fall of the wall and collapse of the Soviet Union is the worst thing that has ever happened to Russia. : https://www.rferl.org/a/1058688.html

So Russia is defending it's territory by slamming missiles into apartment blocks in Ukraine? Phttt.
Mazdatruck wrote: May 9th, 2023, 6:55 pm Ukraine does not have a right to threaten Russia.
I agree and Ukraine does not. It's military was pitiful 10 years ago and only after Russia's annexation of Crimea in 2014 has Ukraine started training its military with the wests assistance. Action- reaction I guess. It happens.
Mazdatruck wrote: May 9th, 2023, 6:55 pm The US regime changed the government there and they became hostile towards Russia.
I didn't think Americans were allowed to vote in Ukraine. Pretty sure the Ukrainians voted for Zelenski as he ran on an anti corruption platform and leaned to western values, not the corrupt Russian ones as some others wanted. Russia was pizzed they could not get their greedy corrupt hands on Ukraines business's any more so they are having a go by force.
Not working out the way they planned I suspect. One tank and no fly overs in a very important parade kinda tells that story. [icon_lol2.gif]
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Re: Ukraine war/President/news

Post by GordonH »

^^^ Russian Empire then Communism dominated the Ukrainian people for 275+ years. Then in early 1990s former Soviet Union agreed on borders, of numerous countries on the breakup of the USSR (including the territory of Ukraine).

Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Belarus
Ukraine
Kazakhstan
Uzbekistan
Turkmenistan
Kyrgyzstan
Tajikistan

People that wanted to remain as Russian citizens could have sold their places in Ukraine and moved back to Russia.
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