Ukraine war/President/news

[Drip_Torch]

The reason Operation Unthinkable was discarded was because there was no guarantee the West would fare any better following an invasion of Russia than the Germans did. Besides which, declaring war on Russia would have made our side no better than the folks we claim to defend against. ANY nation which uses military force to impose its political and/or economic will on others is an evil entity.

So, in essence, we tossed Eastern Europe under a bus and let the Soviet Union walk away with everything they had negotiated with Hitler through the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. In the end the Soviet Union used military force to impose its political and economic will on others and we stood by and let it happen.

.

The only thing necessary for evil to triumph in the world is that good men do nothing.

[Silverstarqueen]

Comparing the Ukranian situation to what happened just prior to the Second World War is misleading, and ignores the part the West played in triggering the current Ukrainian conflict.

Nobody is defending Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, they were very wrong to do that. But we shouldn’t ignore the provocations that led up to it, and the reasons behind them.

If Russia had expanded its military alliances right up to the U.S. borders the way NATO did to Russia, I’m reasonably sure that the U.S. would also have reacted militarily. The Cuban crisis was a good example of such a reaction.

And American meddling in Ukranian internal affairs prior to the conflict is well documented. Financing a coup to overthrow a democratically elected Government that the Americans considered to be too friendly to Russia was just one of the many things the Americans did that contributed to the current conflict.

The Hunter Biden affair is a good example of how American commercial interests were invested in Ukraine, and also helps explain the American interest in general in Ukranian affairs. Because, at the end of the day, almost all conflicts can be traced back to commercial interests.

The American economic system has been based on America being engaged in or funding wars the World over ever since the end of WW2. Their industrial military machine has made billions from such conflicts. That fact is undeniable. Meanwhile, millions of ordinary people suffer and die as a result of all those conflicts, and there is no end in sight. When the Ukraine war finally ends, another will begin, and the cycle will continue.

So if only Ukraine had let Russian tanks roll in, let Russians take over their airport, take down the Ukrainian government, let Russia "liberate" all their cities, the Russians would not have killed a bunch of "resistors", never would have gunned down innocent people in the streets to raise the terror leverl, and Ukraine could have peacefully just switched to not having their own country?
And why didn't they just do that? because we all know how reasonable and reliable Russia is with their promises (we aren't going to invade Ukraine, then they did). We know Russia would have been kind about just taking Ukrainian resources, taking over their government and ports, because they are such swell guys. Can't they all just be friends? And then the rest of the world could have gone on their merry way (except for maybe which ever countries were next on Russia's list. Knowing that the west would do absolutely nothing to interfere, what would stop Russia from taking any other country it wants?(but of course in a slightly less brutal way as long as they just surrender).
"Russia’s former leader Dmitry Medvedev warned Moscow could annex more of Ukraine a year on from when they first claimed Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson.

”The special military operation will continue until the complete destruction of the Nazi regime in Kyiv. Victory will be ours. And there will be more new regions within Russia,” Mr Medvedev said."

[Merry]

Continue to support this war if you want to, but be prepared for it to escalate into a “hot” war with Russia and, when that happens, be prepared to see your sons and daughters die fighting it.

If you don’t want to see that happen, start demanding NATO seek peace talks with Russia, and try to negotiate an end to this conflict.

Those are the only two choices.

[PoplarSoul]

Continue to support this war if you want to, but be prepared for it to escalate into a “hot” war with Russia and, when that happens, be prepared to see your sons and daughters die fighting it.

If you don’t want to see that happen, start demanding NATO seek peace talks with Russia, and try to negotiate an end to this conflict.

Those are the only two choices.

Before and after the illegal invasion of Ukraine, Zelensky asked numerous times for Putin to come to the table and negotiate.
He refused every single time.

[GordonH]

Continue to support this war if you want to, but be prepared for it to escalate into a “hot” war with Russia and, when that happens, be prepared to see your sons and daughters die fighting it.

If you don’t want to see that happen, start demanding NATO seek peace talks with Russia, and try to negotiate an end to this conflict.

Those are the only two choices.

Before and after the illegal invasion of Ukraine, Zelensky asked numerous times for Putin to come to the table and negotiate.
He refused every single time.

This raises a curious question, what exactly is Putin afraid of in having talks.

[gertlush]

Before and after the illegal invasion of Ukraine, Zelensky asked numerous times for Putin to come to the table and negotiate.
He refused every single time.

This raises a curious question, what exactly is Putin afraid of in having talks.

1 - who exactly would he talk to? The White House cabbage? Jabba the Nuland? Who is in charge in the West?

2 - we'd just lie and break our word... again...

[gertlush]

One huge problem in the Western approach is the WW2 goggles. Our elites are ahistorical morons, their only knowledge of military conflict is this cartoonish representation of evil Nazis vs. Noble Us.

Then, when you get into the academics, they are ideologically blinkered. Read Condi Rice's work, look at the groaning bookshelves filled with variations of "Evil commie-nazi Putin wants to take over world".

Their is no nuance, no subtlety, its "Stormtrooper syndrome" i believe it is called.

Russia and China are much more clearsighted and goal directed.

[Drip_Torch]

Continue to support this war if you want to, but be prepared for it to escalate into a “hot” war with Russia and, when that happens, be prepared to see your sons and daughters die fighting it.

If you don’t want to see that happen, start demanding NATO seek peace talks with Russia, and try to negotiate an end to this conflict.

Those are the only two choices.

Nah, there's a third choice and we're seeing it play out right now. Give Ukraine enough support for the war to keep going "as long as it takes". It's good for arms sales and Russian hegemony in the eastern block countries. In a way, this is better than what was happening under Yeltsin.

It's great for western arms sales!

We could give Ukraine enough weapons to repel the attack, but then what? A collapse of a nuclear power is a scary thing and yet, in the end, that is what is likely to happen. Russian soldiers don't come from Moscow and St Petersburg (Russia), they come from all the ethnic areas of the Federation and sooner or later that will be noticed. We're already seeing those tensions build.

The whole Koran burning thing, with Kadyrov's kid beating up the captured Russian on TV being just one example.

[gertlush]

But really, at the end of the day... Uncle Sam is all hat, no cattle. We ain't gonna fight Russia for some loser country in Eastern Europe.

Look at Canada! Those Leopard tanks we sent? They will never, ever be replaced. We are cutting our budget but posturing like big boys... you don't think Russia, China, India see us for the cupcakes we are

[Drip_Torch]

Before and after the illegal invasion of Ukraine, Zelensky asked numerous times for Putin to come to the table and negotiate.
He refused every single time.

This raises a curious question, what exactly is Putin afraid of in having talks.

Appearing weak.

[Silverstarqueen]

Continue to support this war if you want to, but be prepared for it to escalate into a “hot” war with Russia and, when that happens, be prepared to see your sons and daughters die fighting it.

If you don’t want to see that happen, start demanding NATO seek peace talks with Russia, and try to negotiate an end to this conflict.

Those are the only two choices.

How do they negotiate with a guy who doesn't keep his word?
Putin has already shown, by his actions, what his intentions are. If they were peaceful, he would have proceeded peacefully. He has already said what he expects: Ukraine must surrender, but he cannot be trusted, even if he said, fine in exchange for your surrender, we let the rest live.
TALKS MEAN NOTHING when dealing with liars. so actions are the only language they know and understand. Russia can pull out and stop bombing at any time. No one is stopping them.

[Even Steven]

Putin has already shown, by his actions, what his intentions are. If they were peaceful, he would have proceeded peacefully.

Russia indeed tried to resolve things peacefully in November-January before the invasion - you might have missed all the negotiations they tried to do (not to mention the Minsk accords that West and Ukraine signed but had no intentions of fulfilling. The West thought they could spare a few hundred thousand Ukrainians to call his bluff and ignore Russian government concerns.

West did not want to do things peacefully, so they had to get militarily.

Oh well. Who cares about Ukranians, right? They're just cheap tool to get the job done.

[Silverstarqueen]

Putin has already shown, by his actions, what his intentions are. If they were peaceful, he would have proceeded peacefully.

Russia indeed tried to resolve things peacefully in November-January before the invasion - you might have missed all the negotiations they tried to do (not to mention the Minsk accords that West and Ukraine signed but had no intentions of fulfilling. The West thought they could spare a few hundred thousand Ukrainians to call his bluff and ignore Russian government concerns.

West did not want to do things peacefully, so they had to get militarily.

Oh well. Who cares about Ukranians, right? They're just cheap tool to get the job done.

Lining up troops on the border, and claiming they aren't going to invade doesn't seem like a peaceful negotiating tactic.
"Jan. 2021: Zelenskiy appeals to U.S. president Joe Biden to let Ukraine join NATO. In February, his government freezes the assets of opposition leader Viktor Medvedchuk, the Kremlin's most prominent ally in Ukraine.

Spring 2021: Russia begins massing troops near Ukraine's borders in what it says are training exercises.

Nov. 2021: Satellite images taken by Maxar Technologies show ongoing buildup of Russian forces near Ukraine with estimates soon surpassing 100,000 troops deployed.

Dec. 17 2021: Russia presents security demands including that NATO pull back troops and weapons from eastern Europe and bar Ukraine from ever joining.

Jan. 24 2022: NATO puts forces on standby and reinforces eastern Europe with more ships and fighter jets.

Jan. 26: Washington responds to Russia's security demands, repeating a commitment to NATO's "open-door" policy while offering a "pragmatic evaluation" of Moscow's concerns. Two days later Russia says its demands not addressed.

Feb. 2022: Amid growing Western fears Russia could attack Ukraine, the United States says it will send 3,000 extra troops to NATO members Poland and Romania. Washington and allies say they will not send troops to Ukraine, but warn of severe economic sanctions if Russian President Vladimir Putin takes military action.

Feb. 21: In a TV address, Putin says Ukraine is an integral part of Russian history and has a puppet regime managed by foreign powers. Putin orders what he called peacekeeping forces into two breakaway regions in eastern Ukraine, after recognising them as independent"

[Even Steven]

Lining up troops on the border, and claiming they aren't going to invade doesn't seem like a peaceful negotiating tactic.

Well, you have to be ready for plan B, if your concerns are ignored.

By the way, did you forget these?

2014 - Ukraine/France/Germany/Russia sign an agreement giving Russian people safety within Ukraine, calls for Ukraine to recognize republics as autonomous regions, let them be, let them speak Russian and live peacefully.

Ukraine brings in an army, bombs cities, and kills members of the republic's govt.

2015 - Ukraine signs it AGAIN after losing a few bloody battles. And once again promises not to interfere, not to bring in troops, and let them be WITHIN UKRAINIAN BORDERS. And then they ignore everything they've agreed to AGAIN.

....

2022 - Both Ukrainian and German/French govt come clean and confess they had no intentions of ever fulfilling their obligation and it was just a stalling tactic to build enough force to crash them in 2022. So, Russian "invasion" was just staying one step ahead.

Some negotiation tactics lol. Russia once again been lied to and now they're learning not to trust us. I mean, I would not lol.

[seewood]

Continue to support this war if you want to,

Not sure if I support it per say, however any assistance given to Ukraine to protect their borders is a good thing.
The consequence of a leader like Pootin to invade another country because of a never ending moving scale of reasons, is something worth preventing or fighting back. The wack job has mentioned on several occasions how the collapse of the Soviet Union and corresponding subservient countries under its sphere of influence was an unmitigated disaster. Some talking heads figure his objective is to regain that sphere of influence. Which means really to rape and pillage the respective countries treasury.
Ukraine has borders recognized by the UN and an invading force( Russia) crossed said borders.

but be prepared for it to escalate into a “hot” war with Russia and, when that happens, be prepared to see your sons and daughters die fighting it.

Not sure what you mean by "hot-war" but the only way NATO troops are going to be actually shooting at Russia, is if Russia crosses a NATO countries border. Going nuclear will be in Russia's court and if any country crosses Russia's borders nuclear may well be the result. Because Russia cannot take Ukraine conventually, is not a reason to go Nuclear. Pretty sure Pootin understands that, talking head on Russian TV, perhaps not so much.

I truly believe Ukraine would love to have some peace talks. Thing is, apparently the guy in the bigger country with more resources and bigger military seems to have such an ego that any capitulation without the conquest of Ukraine is a non starter regarding peace talks. Not to mention Ukraine wants their original borders recognized. Fair ask.

Russia will not gain any more ground of note, nor will Ukraine regain any or much of the lost Ukrainian territory. Russia is too dug in and Ukraine will have a reduced NATO assistance next year, enough I suspect to maintain the status quo.

Bloody geo-political mess costing billions. Needlessly if Russia did not invade Ukraine.