Pope Says First Nations On Turtle Island Subjected To Genocide

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BC Landlord
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Re: Pope Says First Nations On Turtle Island Subjected To Genocide

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captkirkcanada wrote: Aug 2nd, 2022, 12:08 pm
BC Landlord wrote: Aug 2nd, 2022, 11:30 am

I don't think you understood me correctly. We, i.e. every one of us INDIVIDUALLY make up Canada, and there is no collective guilt. Genocide is a very serious accusation, and it carries serious legal and financial ramifications to all citizens. It implies collective guilt, and it should be fought vigorously whenever encountered. What Pope is saying, I don't give a flying thing, but I would be more worried about the language coming from Ottawa.
But it did happen there is collective guilt . There isnt a individual guilt of anyone except for the folks who may still be alive that was part of it somehow. Do you feel the same about ww2 and what happened to the jews ? That should be argued against ? Or the armenians in turkey . We should pretend all that never happened ?
When you say “collective guilt”, I would like to know which collective did you mean? Is it Canada, or the RC Church? If it’s the former, that implies me, and I do not accept that for obvious reasons.
What are you talking about the WW2? The only guilt for what happened there was NOT assigned to German people as a collective. That’s what Nuremberg trials were all about, to put the guilt to individual faces. And perhaps Nazis as a group. But NOT German people.

Seriously, why would you impose guilt, and possible financial burden as a consequence upon present day Canadians for something what and if happened centuries ago? Are Spaniards paying reparations for their Conquistadors misdeeds? Turks for their Ottomans conquests and pillaging? Mongols for Genghis Kahn’s?
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Re: Pope Says First Nations On Turtle Island Subjected To Genocide

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captkirkcanada wrote: Aug 2nd, 2022, 12:08 pm
BC Landlord wrote: Aug 2nd, 2022, 11:30 am

I don't think you understood me correctly. We, i.e. every one of us INDIVIDUALLY make up Canada, and there is no collective guilt. Genocide is a very serious accusation, and it carries serious legal and financial ramifications to all citizens. It implies collective guilt, and it should be fought vigorously whenever encountered. What Pope is saying, I don't give a flying thing, but I would be more worried about the language coming from Ottawa.
But it did happen there is collective guilt . There isnt a individual guilt of anyone except for the folks who may still be alive that was part of it somehow. Do you feel the same about ww2 and what happened to the jews ? That should be argued against ? Or the armenians in turkey . We should pretend all that never happened ?

Collective punishment is a violation of the Geneva convention. There is not collective guilt, that is rubbish as Canadians are not a unified culture with a single heritage but an ongoing diversity of peoples each with their own stories. My ancestors escaped persecution as refugees and fled to Canada to face persecution yet again. Some random Canadian down the street does not owe me a debt for that, they have their own story.

The quest for moral superiority always seems to be about making other people feel worse, almost never about becoming better yourself. The pseudo religious hunt to persecute the morally insufficient is as wrong now as it was when the churchs did it.
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Re: Pope Says First Nations On Turtle Island Subjected To Genocide

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captkirkcanada wrote: Aug 2nd, 2022, 6:55 am
bb49 wrote: Aug 1st, 2022, 9:32 pm And he doesn't speak for me.
It's a good thing the catholic church is in decline, we don't them interfering in our politics.

But hey jt already called it genocide, so what's the big deal.
You clearly dont know what the doctrine of discouvery means and how it ties you to what the pope said.
I understand what that document means and if our present government starts studying it, looking at how to use it to solve the "native problem", there is where I am fearful.
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Re: Pope Says First Nations On Turtle Island Subjected To Genocide

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If you are accused of any serious crime, the first thing your lawyer would tell you is NOT to admit any of it. However, our government is doing the exact opposite by admitting no less than a genocide in our names. And I don't care what Pope says, except that it gives further ammo to our clown in chief and perpetual apologizer to inflict more and longer lasting damage to Canadians.
If Vatican is willing to take on (most likely) legal proceedings as a result from such an admition, I have no issues with that. Just stay clear from Canada and Canadians. If any Catholic living in Canada wants to chip-in personally for reparations, I have no issues with that either.
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Re: Pope Says First Nations On Turtle Island Subjected To Genocide

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Government of Canada was the ones who set up the Residential School system, it was brain child of both MacDonald & Mackenzie.
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Re: Pope Says First Nations On Turtle Island Subjected To Genocide

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GordonH wrote: Aug 2nd, 2022, 4:04 pm Government of Canada was the ones who set up the Residential School system, it was brain child of both MacDonald & Mackenzie.
It doesn't matter who set it up. What matters is who committed crimes (if any) while running it. And that was not the government. I would also argue, that was not the RC Church either, but a few sick clergys in their ranks. But the Holy See knows better.
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Re: Pope Says First Nations On Turtle Island Subjected To Genocide

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BC Landlord wrote: Aug 2nd, 2022, 9:37 am We are Canada ... you, me, anyone else. Not sure about you, but if anything happened to natives, that was 100's of years before I came to Canada.
The last residential school closed in 1996.
My ancestors arrived in Canada in the 1600s.
I don't feel any guilt.
I do acknowledge it happened and move on.
Let First Nations grieve the way they see fit.
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Re: Pope Says First Nations On Turtle Island Subjected To Genocide

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BC Landlord wrote: Aug 2nd, 2022, 4:36 pm
GordonH wrote: Aug 2nd, 2022, 4:04 pm Government of Canada was the ones who set up the Residential School system, it was brain child of both MacDonald & Mackenzie.
It doesn't matter who set it up. What matters is who committed crimes (if any) while running it. And that was not the government. I would also argue, that was not the RC Church either, but a few sick clergys in their ranks. But the Holy See knows better.
Government must have had officials overseeing daily operations, plus knowing how many priests have done unspeakable things to children. All the RC church does is reassign them to another area or different country, so they can continue.
I don't give a damn whether people/posters like me or dislike me, I'm not on earth to win any popularity contests.
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Re: Pope Says First Nations On Turtle Island Subjected To Genocide

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BC Landlord wrote: Aug 2nd, 2022, 3:53 pm If you are accused of any serious crime, the first thing your lawyer would tell you is NOT to admit any of it. However, our government is doing the exact opposite by admitting no less than a genocide in our names.
I guess the last government should never have admitted to wrong doing and apologize.
The last Indian residential school, located in Saskatchewan, closed in 1996. On June 11, 2008, Prime Minister Stephen Harper on behalf of the Government of Canada issued a public apology to Aboriginal Peoples acknowledging Canada's role in the Indian Residential Schools system.
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Re: Pope Says First Nations On Turtle Island Subjected To Genocide

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PoplarSoul wrote: Aug 2nd, 2022, 4:45 pm
BC Landlord wrote: Aug 2nd, 2022, 3:53 pm If you are accused of any serious crime, the first thing your lawyer would tell you is NOT to admit any of it. However, our government is doing the exact opposite by admitting no less than a genocide in our names.
I guess the last government should never have admitted to wrong doing and apologize.
The last Indian residential school, located in Saskatchewan, closed in 1996. On June 11, 2008, Prime Minister Stephen Harper on behalf of the Government of Canada issued a public apology to Aboriginal Peoples acknowledging Canada's role in the Indian Residential Schools system.
Apologizing for "wrong doing" and admitting to no less than a genocide are two entirely different dimensions. The later opens up the door for serious litigations, and potentially costly and long lasting damages to Canadians who have nothing to do with what happened back then. And it is not natives who I am afraid of, but a plethora of well funded and determined western world haters who would salivate at such an opportunity to bring Canada down.
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Re: Pope Says First Nations On Turtle Island Subjected To Genocide

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$Kaching, $Kaching.
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Re: Pope Says First Nations On Turtle Island Subjected To Genocide

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This is the biggest scam in history. All 150,000 children were kidnapped? All these children were abused? All these grave's were "unmarked"? Canada is "guilty" of genocide, meaning it's White Canadian's who are guilty of genocide. every person who went to those school's is called a "survivor". Never, never will anyone in the bribed media ask seriously question's, just go along with the current narrative or else be called a racist, white colonizer/settler, White privilege/right extremist etc, etc. Play the victim race card is the only argument they, and their supporter's have.
Whole generation's of White Canadian's will grow up being told that must feel guilty of what allegedly happened long before they were born, meanwhile, the first Nation's can continue to claim that "reparation's" can only be fulfilled by more and more monetary payoff's.
And government will continue to pay out hundred's of billion's of dollar's to assuage alleged "white guilt". And it will never end as long as there are people who can be made to feel guilty for things they are not responsible for and for things that never happened.
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Re: Pope Says First Nations On Turtle Island Subjected To Genocide

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*removed*
Last edited by ferri on Aug 8th, 2022, 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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youjustcomplain
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Re: Pope Says First Nations On Turtle Island Subjected To Genocide

Post by youjustcomplain »

gertlush wrote: Aug 2nd, 2022, 12:59 pm Well the Pope apologized and God will forgive the sinners. Anybody else faces judgement on the afterlife. So job done as far as Im concerned. If God thought it was genocide then surely he would punish Canada no??

"Behold my wrath... i send unto you a bowl-cutted idiot... and you will call him PM and it is my will"
If god was against genocide, then surely he would have put a stop to it. He didn't. He either has no power, or no desire.
In fact, the bible promoted genocide and slavery. Deuteronomy 20
Is god real? topic for another thread.

The Pope has every responsibility to confess the sins of his church, though he, himself, was not guilty of the crime.
I have every reason to feel horrified knowing of the way first nations were treated and the way some still are. However, I learned much of this in school... 30 years ago. Unearthing graves is just a fresh reminder, but it's not new. Nothing new here. Everyone educated in Canada around the same time I was would have been taught the same things. First nations children were sent to residential schools and many were never seen by their families again. That's not my definition of genocide. If Canada and the church wanted genocide, they'd have done it; they didn't. If they wanted genocide, we'd have no first nations people alive today to talk about the way they were mistreated. There would be no reserves, no appologies.

What happened may very well have been an attempt at cultural genocide. I'm not sure that there is a real definition of that, but the purpose was never to murder all first nations children. It was to tame the savage, meaning.... assimilate them into our culture.

Some of the children died in these schools. I'm sure things like TB were rampant in those facilities. My heart breaks for the children who suffered and their poor parents who had their most precious things pulled from them, sanctioned by the government. We shouldn't dare think that the Pope's words have any meaning; the churches worked with the Canadian government to commit these attrocities. The responsibility for all of this falls of the Canadian Government. How do we move forward? imo, paying survivors does not solve the problem. Make amends by ensuring that all first nations people, or or off reserve, have the same access to clean drinking water, education and health care as the rest of us.
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Re: Pope Says First Nations On Turtle Island Subjected To Genocide

Post by youjustcomplain »

RoyRomanoski wrote: Aug 7th, 2022, 12:03 pm This is the biggest scam in history. All 150,000 children were kidnapped? All these children were abused? All these grave's were "unmarked"? Canada is "guilty" of genocide, meaning it's White Canadian's who are guilty of genocide. every person who went to those school's is called a "survivor". Never, never will anyone in the bribed media ask seriously question's, just go along with the current narrative or else be called a racist, white colonizer/settler, White privilege/right extremist etc, etc. Play the victim race card is the only argument they, and their supporter's have.
Whole generation's of White Canadian's will grow up being told that must feel guilty of what allegedly happened long before they were born, meanwhile, the first Nation's can continue to claim that "reparation's" can only be fulfilled by more and more monetary payoff's.
And government will continue to pay out hundred's of billion's of dollar's to assuage alleged "white guilt". And it will never end as long as there are people who can be made to feel guilty for things they are not responsible for and for things that never happened.
What if you're wrong? What if it's not a scam?
We know residential schools were real. We know the kids were taken from their families and many were never seen again by their families. We know many died in the governments care.

Doesn't take media spin to understand. Denying this is akin to denying the holocaust. (Not to say that the two things are the same; they're not). But there is more than enough evidence and documentation that we all KNOW that this happened. It's not media brain washing.

Where we agree though is that I don't think that first nations children who didn't die in a residential school is a survivor. Some likely are, but not all. We must remember that a residential school was not the elementary school most of us attended. They didn't go learn things about math and english, then go home for dinner. Maybe the team "Residential School" should be redone to better describe what happened there.

Also, government paying hundreds of billions of dollars to first nations leaders isn't the answer. I've been alive long enough to hear enough stories about a chief getting paid millions of dollars to establish sanitation systems or clean drinking water systems for their community, but instead they just keep the money for themselves. How many billions of dollars should Canadian tax payers pay and we still see first nations communities without the basics, like water. No more money should be given; only money spent.
Last edited by youjustcomplain on Aug 8th, 2022, 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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