The Cancelling of Women Continues

[The Green Barbarian]

Thank you. I will. Signed a Woman (and an actual person you don’t care about apparently)
Ps See how hypocritical you are?

You'd have a better chance of Venezuela and Cuba suddenly signing a "capitalism pact" and opening up free markets and holding free elections.

[localtransguy]

As a biological woman I will not be sub categorized or erased or canceled as a woman.

I say this as gently as possible, because I don't want to come across as patronizing or condescending, but I do feel the need to point out that there are already subcategories of women.

There are women with red hair and women with brunette hair. There are women who are Black and women who are Jewish. There are women with and without uteruses, and there are women with and without breasts. There are women who need to take hormone replacement therapy, and there are women with broad shoulders and narrow hips. There are women with PCOS who grow facial hair and experience other effects from elevated testosterone levels. There are intersex women with any combination of anatomical traits. There are trans women who are treated by the world around them as women, and they may share any number of these same traits with non-trans women.

The broader umbrella category of womanhood is big enough for all of these people inside it, and nothing about these subcategories does anything to diminish the other subcategories. The existence of blonde people does not erase brunette people, and the existence of trans women does not erase or cancel cis women.

[Iamme]

‘As gently as possible’ ? Give me a break. I’m not a woman you can condescend to. You have not walked in my shoes. You have not dealt with what I have dealt with. Your examples are ridiculous. Obviously you have a different pov than me. No matter how hard you try, no matter your ocd is to counter what I believe and probably the majority of us believe, you will not take me or women down. Full stop now transguy.

[JLives]

‘As gently as possible’ ? Give me a break. I’m not a woman you can condescend to. You have not walked in my shoes. You have not dealt with what I have dealt with. Your examples are ridiculous. Obviously you have a different pov than me. No matter how hard you try, no matter your ocd is to counter what I believe and probably the majority of us believe, you will not take me or women down. Full stop now transguy.

And you haven't dealt with what trans people have dealt with. Same thing. You're just people.

[rustled]

Of course. However again, here, I'm seeing the suggestion that those of us who are not trans needed to be told to behave with basic human decency. It doesn't seem to me most women are going to kick up any sort of a fuss if someone visibly trans enters the washroom, uses a stall, washes up and leaves.

That doesn't mean we should go along with people who are attempting to normalize seeing people who are obviously biological males entering women's spaces, as though there's no possibility of a negative consequence for normalizing that. While I realize it's difficult for those struggling to transition, they are not the only vulnerable people involved.

Nor should we be expected to shrug - or stay silent for fear of being called bigots or accused of hate speech - when folk like Lia Thomas and others who have exposed their male genitalia to unconsenting women and girls in change rooms choose to disregard those women and girls, who should be able to use the spaces set aside for women and girls without being exposed to male genitalia without their consent.

Great post rustled.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xak-ENogayg

Thanks for sharing that clip. I like Bari Weiss's response to Brian Stelter - about how people are being villainized for not going along with the narrative on topics like this one. We see it in this thread.

[SuperMom]

The broader umbrella category of womanhood is big enough for all of these people inside it, and nothing about these subcategories does anything to diminish the other subcategories. The existence of blonde people does not erase brunette people, and the existence of trans women does not erase or cancel cis women.

I appreciate your explanation for the use of cis, but as a woman I do not want to be labelled as such. Womanhood is a broad category, however, to me, your examples don't quite line up with being called cis or trans. A woman is a woman regardless of her skin or hair colour, the shape of her body, whether or not she has or even wants children, her job or education or talents. Having quite a few acquaintances in the LGBTQ community, most of the time I see cis being used in a negative and condescending manner. It comes across as divisive. To be honest, I also find it somewhat disrespectful when someone uses they/them pronouns when talking about me. I will use whatever pronouns someone wants me to use, but I am a woman and do not want my identity as a woman to be diminished in the attempt to not offend those who identify differently.

[rustled]

So much chat about washrooms.

which is a red herring. Washrooms are something that can be dealt with via private stalls. Change rooms and showers cannot. Whenever someone starts babbling on about washrooms, it's clear they are just deflecting or are trying to muddy the waters, which we see a lot of in this thread.

Yes and no. Here's why we're babbling on about washrooms: The day no one raises an eyebrow when someone who is obviously a biological male enters a women's washroom in a mall or gas station where a 12-year-old girl is alone is the day we know that in our society, there is no longer any genuine interest in protecting the vulnerable.

And yes, I'm fully aware boys already face this. Plenty of times during Clifford Olson's hunting days I waited while my son used the men's and was gone longer than I'd expected. A) a man or boy behaving outside the norms in a men's room faces consequences from men and boys who enter - not more women and girls who are now being urged not to follow their instincts and protect each other, and b) we won't address the risk to boys by making it easier for deviant men to access girls and women.

[countmeout]

And you haven't dealt with what trans people have dealt with. Same thing. You're just people.

No, I suppose they don't have a metal illness that causes them to put so much time into what is between their legs. Sex change is physically impossible, it frequently does not provide the long-term wholeness and happiness that people seek.

Yes you can suppress hormones and start to appear like the sex you wish to be, but the surgery doesn't allow a biological man to get pregnant or a biological female to ejaculate.

The above is no different for sports competitions and canceling of women. Transitioning gives one a reconstructed body to help with their gender dysphoria and live a happier life in the skin they want. Just because they feel they deserve to be treated like the sex they transitioned to doesn't mean biological born people of the same gender don't have to sideline their own lives to accommodate a mental/body issue another person is having.

[JLives]

*removed*

[localtransguy]

Having quite a few acquaintances in the LGBTQ community, most of the time I see cis being used in a negative and condescending manner. It comes across as divisive.

To an extent, I kind of agree with you on this. I have known a few trans people who openly claim to blanket hate all cis people (perhaps in jest, perhaps not), and while I understand that this likely corresponds with their lived experiences of transphobia, I nevertheless consider this mentality to be maladaptive in almost all cases. There are estimated to be millions of trans people in the world, and I certainly do not philosophically agree with all of them on everything, hahaha.

If I were to speculate, I might guess that the issue most people have with the word "cis" is less with the word itself and more with the mindset behind using the word, similar to how the word "gay" is not in and of itself a slur, but it can be used in an offensive way (eg. "a gay man" vs. "that's so gay (derogatory)"). Speaking personally, I do my best to exclusively use the word "cis" in situations where differentiating trans and non-trans people makes a material difference to the point I'm trying to make, similar to how I might clarify when a person is white or straight when those traits are relevant. My hope is that by exclusively using it as politely as I can, I can help dispel the stigma that you and others experience when you hear the word, because it truly is the shortest and least clunky way of saying "not trans" that I've encountered.

To be honest, I also find it somewhat disrespectful when someone uses they/them pronouns when talking about me. I will use whatever pronouns someone wants me to use, but I am a woman and do not want my identity as a woman to be diminished in the attempt to not offend those who identify differently.

For what it's worth, there are a lot of trans people who agree with you on this. I think some people use they/them when they aren't sure what gender someone is trying to present as, and nonbinary people can benefit from this, but for people who want to present themselves as specifically male or specifically female, whether they're trans or not, it can definitely be invalidating to hear that they aren't being perceived or treated that way. My guess is that people who mistakenly use they/them pronouns for you would likely be happy to correct themselves if you let them know.

[rustled]

*removed*

[JLives]

Listen. I really don't give give a *bleep* about any of that. Live your life and don't be an *bleep*. Drop the hatred. It's pretty simple.

IMO, routinely referring to "hatred" where there's no hatred in a post is a pretty ugly way to deflect from the reasonable points made in the post, in this case about how the current activism for trans rights is affecting everyone, including many of the people who seek happiness through transitioning.

*removed* It IS hatred.

[rustled]

*removed*

[the truth]

*removed*

[countmeout]

*removed*