The push to end homelessness.

Social, economic and environmental issues in our ever-changing world.
flavorflav
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by flavorflav »

Why don't we build a commune,nothing fancy,just a bare bones facility near the new prison wherever it's to be built.As a matter of fact,the homeless can help build it,heck I'll even volunteer several days of labor.Say to the homeless,addicts,whomever wants to be there,"Here's your big chance to get clean,do you want it?" If they take the oppurtunity,we help.If not ,we invoke the vagrancy laws just like James-T suggested. Here's another thought, Have the OUC carpenter's apprentice program build it.Sounds like a win win for everybody.As for the new facility,we can have the OUC nursing program get on board as part of their practicum.
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crookedmember
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by crookedmember »

I was in the downtown branch of the library last week, for the first time in a long time. The place is full of homeless. But while they may be homeless, they're certainly not boozeless, potless, cigaretteless or drugless.

Some of them are sleepless; the poor library workers don rubber gloves to rouse them.

I didn't stay long. And certainly didn't dare sit on any of the furniture.

It used to be a nice place.
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james-d
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by james-d »

Yes flavourflav, good idea and let's have mtn biker and cork soaker head it up, They are the resident experts on the homeless, must have a lot of experience. and let's let them pay for most of it, They are after all so highly edumucated. lol
sanfish
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by sanfish »

I almost don't even know where to start, but ill take a stab at it. The first thing we should look at is the Math. There are far more people out of work than there are jobs ( not to mention the underpaid, and underemployed). If everyone "pulled up their boot straps and applied themselves", the Math would still dictate the same number of people with no jobs/homes/food etc. Society had lost its way. A society should be judged on how it cares for its most vulnerable,and in this we have failed....miserably. The problem is we have been distracted, divided, and manipulated to the point where we either think certain people deserve it due to choices they make or worse yet that there's no solutions available to fix it. This couldn't be further from the truth. There are 6 times more vacant homes in North America than there are homeless people. We waste enough food daily to feed every hungry person. Does this mean I think we should give up a summer cottage to a homeless person or feed everyone out table scraps? NOT at all. Merely pointing out that we live in a world of abundance. The UN says world hunger could be eradicated for the sum if 30 Billion /yr ( high estimate because they only count feeding people not helping people feed themselves). The world spends this sum every 8 days on military spending. I'm not saying we have to have lasting peace in the world ( would be nice), just sayin perhaps we could stop spending on killing each other 1 week out if the year . Canada spends 60 Billion a year on interest for a national debt common sense dictated we shouldn't have . The states spends almost a trillion and a half ( not to mention they spend same on military as next 13 countries combined). We have Wall Street investment bankers/traders getting 40 million dollar bonuses/yr for basically manipulating the system and ruining our hard earned purchasing power of our currencies. We have barely legal adults making multi millions a year for playing a game while we vilify teachers/nurses etc who want a slightly better standard of living. Why is this so? Because we allow it. I could go on and on, but if you don't get it by now you won't even if I keep writing.

ETA don't know about anyone else, but I'd rather see my hard earned tax dollars go to help a hungry /homeless person ( even if they were "lazy such and suches") than to carpet bombing countries, bailing out banks ( who not only devalue or currency by the very way they operate, and who don't even pay taxes in the Billions they make), young adults who are lucky to be paid to play a game ( yes shorter career and entertainment so they deserve good money but not to make 10 times the money ill earn in a lifetime in a much shorter career) , etc etc etc. People should either wake up or give their heads a very big shake
Last edited by sanfish on Apr 16th, 2013, 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Liquidnails
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by Liquidnails »

It's interesting how people seem to view those living in the street as some sort of subhuman affliction. They're people too.

sanfish, I've quoted and formatted your post, so it is possible to read.

sanfish wrote:I almost don't even know where to start, but ill take a stab at it.

The first thing we should look at is the Math. There are far more people out of work than there are jobs ( not to mention the underpaid, and underemployed). If everyone "pulled up their boot straps and applied themselves", the Math would still dictate the same number of people with no jobs/homes/food etc.

Society had lost its way. A society should be judged on how it cares for its most vulnerable, and in this we have failed....miserably. The problem is we have been distracted, divided, and manipulated to the point where we either think certain people deserve it due to choices they make or worse yet that there's no solutions available to fix it.

This couldn't be further from the truth.

There are 6 times more vacant homes in North America than there are homeless people. We waste enough food daily to feed every hungry person. Does this mean I think we should give up a summer cottage to a homeless person or feed everyone out table scraps? NOT at all. Merely pointing out that we live in a world of abundance. The UN says world hunger could be eradicated for the sum if 30 Billion /yr ( high estimate because they only count feeding people not helping people feed themselves). The world spends this sum every 8 days on military spending. I'm not saying we have to have lasting peace in the world ( would be nice), just sayin perhaps we could stop spending on killing each other 1 week out if the year .

Canada spends 60 Billion a year on interest for a national debt common sense dictated we shouldn't have . The states spends almost a trillion and a half ( not to mention they spend same on military as next 13 countries combined). We have Wall Street investment bankers/traders getting 40 million dollar bonuses/yr for basically manipulating the system and ruining our hard earned purchasing power of our currencies. We have barely legal adults making multi millions a year for playing a game while we vilify teachers/nurses etc who want a slightly better standard of living. Why is this so? Because we allow it. I could go on and on, but if you don't get it by now you won't even if I keep writing.
sanfish
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by sanfish »

Haha thanks! I'm at the park with my puppy using my phone
flavorflav
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by flavorflav »

I have no problem helping out the homeless and the addicted.The problem is they don't seem to want to help themselves.I know someone 's going to say they didn't choose to be that way or they have mental health issues,yada yada. If any one in a bad situation shows initiative to try and take better care of themselves,I'm all for helping.As for world hunger in other countries,if someone can gurantee me to a certain extent that some militia group or gov't or whoever isn't going to hijack the food or derail our efforts,then I'm in.I think we need to let countries around the world make better efforts to help their own before we step in.I believe in fruit for my labor,not indifference.
Clipper
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by Clipper »

[quote="james-d"] Most of these people are there by choice,Don't they know that?
YOU GOT YOUR HEAD JAMMED UP WHERE THE SUN DON'T SHINE :purefury:
I have a lifelong friend who has two university degrees; used to be married with kids, nice house, newer car, etc, etc.
Now she usually drinks up her rent money and ends up on the street for a few months or years. Ask her if she would rather have a different life? Ask her if she would rather be working and using her education to contribute to society instead of suffering for weeks on end with a broken tooth?
She has come to me for help; telling me she wishes she had never started drinking when her marriage broke up but here's only so much I can afford to do. Her life is pure hell, when she starts drinking again she sinks so low I sometimes think I'll never see her again.
Do you think all alcoholics or drug users living on the street are uneducated, unwashed scum? Many have a better education and higher IQ than you display on here.
What is your problem with the panhandler who claims he earns $800 a day, tax free. Are you jealous of the fact that his daily efforts enable him to earn more than you? I noticed you don't lambast the "legit" business people who avoid paying tax whenever possible. Or pay their employees cash to save on benefit payments. Or Joe Average who offers cash for things he buys to avoid taxes; are they different than the panhandler?

You're surprised a drug user cashed in a bus ticket you gave him and bought drugs with the cash? Have you never heard of a drug free work place in your narrow world? If you're too cheap to pay for drug tests then reap the consequences and don't come crying on here about your stupidity.
Twenty bucks an hour for out of town work? That better be a labourer job with room and board supplied, otherwise it's just an employer preying on people who are down and out!
Addictions are a disease that may or may not be curable; that's a proven fact. My heart goes out to those that try to clean up/dry out and fail time after time; I don't know if I'd have the courage to do that. There are former CEO's living on the sreet, panhandling, stealing, whatever, for their next fix.
As far as kids panhandling and living on the streets goes, many of us did that for a spell in the '60s and went on to get an education etc. But it was usually a fun time, exposure to a totally different world than Mom and Dad's house and we learned much about the world we live in. We learned about people like you!
There's an election coming soon; what an opportunity for you to something about this "horror" you have to witness daily. Or do you just sit behind your screen and flap your gums and spout ignorance and arrogance?
You my friend, should step out of your glass castle and educate yourself about the world beyond your doorstep and envision yourself in these people's shoes should life ever deal you that card; doubtful if you can. :purefury: :purefury:
Clipper
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by Clipper »

flavorflav wrote:I have no problem helping out the homeless and the addicted.The problem is they don't seem to want to help themselves.I know someone 's going to say they didn't choose to be that way or they have mental health issues,yada yada. If any one in a bad situation shows initiative to try and take better care of themselves,I'm all for helping.As for world hunger in other countries,if someone can gurantee me to a certain extent that some militia group or gov't or whoever isn't going to hijack the food or derail our efforts,then I'm in.I think we need to let countries around the world make better efforts to help their own before we step in.I believe in fruit for my labor,not indifference.

What you say is true; many don't know or remember a different life and are terrified of the unknown world of a "normal" life without addictions so they remain more or less content where they are.
But sit in on an AA meeting sometime and listen to the accounts of failures and successes. The efforts people make to become sober or clean are incredible and failure is devastating to them but most come back and try again and again. Some just give in to the sense of failure and become an eternal victims of their addiction.
I've lived in third world countries and their biggest problem is government corruption. People who have been starving and uneducated for generations are easily manipulated for the benefit of the ones who wield the power and spend the donated money. The problem is the donating countries just keep sending the money without conditions on its use.
Our own government sent "high tech" stainless steel manual water well pumps costing several thousand dollars each to a country in Africa and they all failed within six months and yet there are 75 yr old cast iron pumps here still working.
On the other hand, a company from the US sent small solar chargers, car batteries, and LED lights to villages in Tibet so that shows assistance doesn't have to be costly or super high tech.

Like you said,there is also the problem of local militant groups confiscating aid supplies and food as a means of applying force to the government they want to overcome; how do you stop that without becoming an intervener?
sanfish
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by sanfish »

Well how about we compromise. Lets make sure everyone that wants a home has one ,and get proper mental health swrvices for everyone who wants help then we can come back and discuss how it's impossible to end homelessness for people that are happy living in the streets with their addictions for company.
sanfish
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by sanfish »

Clipper wrote:
I've lived in third world countries and their biggest problem is government corruption. People who have been starving and uneducated for generations are easily manipulated for the benefit of the ones who wield the power and spend the donated money. ?


Eerily similar to what happens in most "first world countries" too.
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steven lloyd
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by steven lloyd »

Clipper wrote:I've lived in third world countries and their biggest problem is government corruption. People who have been starving and uneducated for generations are easily manipulated for the benefit of the ones who wield the power and spend the donated money. ?

sanfish wrote: Eerily similar to what happens in most "first world countries" too.

Yes, the lack of and unequal access to education explains a lot of things - even this thread.
ubcstudent063
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by ubcstudent063 »

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised by the ignorance of the OP. A lot of people who do not understand homelessness share the same attitude. The homeless are human beings just like you and I; their lives are not any less significant. It sounds like you think social workers and others who want to help people better their lives are a bad thing. A world where people do not want to advocate for and help the most marginalized populations scares me.

People are not homeless by choice, many have compounding issues. Also, not all homeless struggle with addiction. Some of these people have lived through experiences that none of us could imagine. Traumatic experiences are often at the root of homelessness. Who is anybody to judge how a person lives there life following such events; everyone copes differently. Many homeless struggle with mental illness that has gone undiagnosed and they use drugs as a form of self-medication (the stigma attached to mental illness is a whole other topic altogether).

It has been stated that homelessness will never end and the “bleeding hearts” perpetuate the problem. It is not the bleeding hearts that are perpetuating the problem, it is ignorance and judgemental attitudes like this and are perpetuating the problem.

And homelessness IS a social problem.

The notion that if we stop giving “these people” (as you say) money, then they will clean up and find a job is simply not realistic. Addiction is not a switch that can be turned on and off. For someone who is homeless, finding out where they are going to get their next meal and where they are going to sleep takes priority of finding a job. Not to mention many employers are reluctant to hire someone with no fixed address. There are other factors too; including transportation, hygiene and having a contact number. How can we expect someone to be ready to work when they are trying to meet basic needs most of us take for granted.

If all the people like the OP focused their energy positively, worked to find solutions and treated the homeless like real people, real change could happen. (And no, telling an addict to dry up and get a job or shipping the homeless off to another city are not feasible solutions).
Liquidnails
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by Liquidnails »

well said.
james-d
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by james-d »

Boy, there are some real IDIOTS responding to my posts on this subject, Especially this Gipper dude. You are a real whiner and you should get a real world education.And as for the rest of you who feel that we all have to find a solution to an age old problem, Well that ain't going to happen. And don't tell me that these highly educated people are too stupid to understand the risks they take when abusing drugs and alcohol. I am not a university graduate with degrees out my ying yang, but I know not to stand in front of a train comin down the tracks DUH, The reason this problem WILL NOT BE SOLVED is because it is self induced and supported by ones own desires and choices. It is easy for some to whine and cry and say look what I did to myself now help me, AND we should help them, But my post was about homeless people begging,pan-handling for money on our streets,And this community is going to fix the homeless problem .And rather then mouthing off about my opinions, Go out and talk to some of these people and you will find they could most likely do quite well in society, But choose not to enter that race but would rather beg for it for free. These people are a HIGHLY Visible minority who appear to be poor, down on their luck ,drunk or on drugs, And ask us for money, The several that we went out of our way to help with work in our construction co.Refused it. We don't do that anymore. I know it is a problem that will NEVER be solved or fixed. And Any thinking person over the age of 12 should know this.Maybe they think this is a new age problem of the last 20 years or so.Got news for you,You don't help by giving handouts, You help by giving a hand up. But if they won't take it, All you happy do good I feel better now attitude won't solve anything.
But you folks keep on giving, Kelowna is getting a name for the place to be amoung these types...

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