The push to end homelessness.

Social, economic and environmental issues in our ever-changing world.
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steven lloyd
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by steven lloyd »

james-d wrote: Boy, there are some real IDIOTS responding to my posts on this subject,
Especially this Gipper dude. You are a real whiner and you should get a real world education.

There is some real irony in this post - although I'm positive it will elude you.
Mtn Biker
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by Mtn Biker »

ubcstudent063 wrote:I guess I shouldn’t be surprised by the ignorance of the OP. A lot of people who do not understand homelessness share the same attitude. The homeless are human beings just like you and I; their lives are not any less significant. It sounds like you think social workers and others who want to help people better their lives are a bad thing. A world where people do not want to advocate for and help the most marginalized populations scares me.

People are not homeless by choice, many have compounding issues. Also, not all homeless struggle with addiction. Some of these people have lived through experiences that none of us could imagine. Traumatic experiences are often at the root of homelessness. Who is anybody to judge how a person lives there life following such events; everyone copes differently. Many homeless struggle with mental illness that has gone undiagnosed and they use drugs as a form of self-medication (the stigma attached to mental illness is a whole other topic altogether).

It has been stated that homelessness will never end and the “bleeding hearts” perpetuate the problem. It is not the bleeding hearts that are perpetuating the problem, it is ignorance and judgemental attitudes like this and are perpetuating the problem.

And homelessness IS a social problem.

The notion that if we stop giving “these people” (as you say) money, then they will clean up and find a job is simply not realistic. Addiction is not a switch that can be turned on and off. For someone who is homeless, finding out where they are going to get their next meal and where they are going to sleep takes priority of finding a job. Not to mention many employers are reluctant to hire someone with no fixed address. There are other factors too; including transportation, hygiene and having a contact number. How can we expect someone to be ready to work when they are trying to meet basic needs most of us take for granted.

If all the people like the OP focused their energy positively, worked to find solutions and treated the homeless like real people, real change could happen. (And no, telling an addict to dry up and get a job or shipping the homeless off to another city are not feasible solutions).



Thank you for your post. We need as many counter opinions to the OP's original post we can get, because if we follow their lead we're all doomed. You make some clear and valid points and it's easy to see it's a much bigger issue than just choice and circumstance.

Regrettably some people really do not understand the issues or how this can happen to someone, but are experts in their own mind and not afraid to say so. If they got off their video gaming couch and spend some quality time in an agency designed to assist the marginalized and homeless, perhaps their attitude wouldn't be so smug and counter productive. Or perhaps it would have no affect which is kind of sad. Or . . . don't do anything at all, but get off their case, quit judging, and just stand aside - but don't make it worse by being callous, shallow and ignorantly opinionated. It's pretty evident the values that the OP's pushes are not going resolve anything and in reality make it much worse because of the discrimination present in their tone and chosen words. Could you trust that?
Mtn Biker
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by Mtn Biker »

steven lloyd wrote:There is some real irony in this post - although I'm positive it will elude you.



I concur.
Trigger69
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by Trigger69 »

Silverstarqueen wrote:If drug and alcohol addiction is at the root of much of the homelessness, then why are we closing treatment programs? Most of these people are not likely to pull themselves up by their bootstraps (much as we might wish they would), so without help to get their lives back on track, how are they going to do it? This is a social/public health problem which we can choose not to address, but then we can't complain about the inevitable results.

As much as I agree that homelessness is a social problem I have to say the reason we are closing the treatment centers is because they do not work for the most part when it concerns the homeless. When one goes to a treatment center the treatment doesnt end there, the person needs continued care and a solid support system AFTER or they will slip back into the vortex of substance abuse or continue with the mental health issues at the next hiccup. As you can see this is where the problem lies with the homeless, once they are finished with the treatment center (suessfull or not) they are out on the streets vulnerable to all that the streets can offer (ie. drugs, alcohol etc) with little to no support system in place.
I have stated this for years and what I am about to say is going to shock and aww some of you but before you react THINK about it. As a down town core Kelowna (and other cities near by) it is counter productive to have a Mission or Hostile in the area. Yes they are great and serve a "quick fix" service in the cold winter months BUT they also serve as a spot where the homeless can gather and therefore stick around. I propose the city buy the building, reno it or demo it and use the high valued property it sits on for something condusive to down town. The shelters and other program based centers could and should be located where there is a huge property (June Spring Rd anyone?) and a building be constructed there, one to house these people and other centers to assist in living skills and addiction treatment...I know this wont solve all of the homeless problems but at least it will be a start and further to that our down town will begin to be attractive to the families once again...
Now I know most of you reading this are thinking....not in my area. Well what I say to that is we live in one of the most beautiful provinces in Canada with a TON of open areas...there has to be a location where this could be done without offending many.
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joer2012
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by joer2012 »

Trigger69 wrote:The shelters and other program based centers could and should be located where there is a huge property (June Spring Rd anyone?)


Really? People have invested in significant properties up there. Multi millions, in some cases. Would you want a homeless camp up there with crackheads, thieves, and mentally unstable people wandering around all day with absolutely NOTHING to do? Or maybe you think they should be on lockdown all day, like a jail. Not to mention the grow ops and crime/gang houses on some of the larger lots (well documented, and reported in various media over the years). People have a right to be NIMBY's and protect their homes in cases like this, where the general population does not even think before suggesting "solutions" to the homeless/addiction problem. If there needs to be a location, it needs to be on the edge of downtown where there are localized integrated social and medical support services ,and something for people to do during treatment/accommodation periods. My two cents.

Also, it wouldn't be such a problem if downtown wasn't littered with the detritus and scum of society selling all manner of street drugs, preying on the weak, dealing in the proceeds of crime, managing theft rings, selling to the greedy, and generally ruining the pleasures of everyday local and tourist people going about their business. Unfortunately, the weakest of us (homeless/addicted) just get pulled back into this cesspit of the Okanagan, and the most naive or innocent (tourists, business owners) are affected by it. I would happily pay a few more bucks to have more cops taking direct and well planned strategic action on the local drug/crime trade, on all levels from the top down to the streets. I would empower the cops to give a few select people some special treatment including a kick up the backside and a suggestion that they leave town sharpish. Screw your civil liberties and fluffy wishy washy BC libertarian attitudes, and empower them. Shackles off, boots on...and GO.

Disclaimer: I do not live in or near June Springs Road. No vested interest in this issue.
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by hobbyguy »

It doesn't take much research to gain some insight into the homeless issue.

A couple of highlights:

- In many cities, a person can work 40 hrs per week at a minimum wage job, and be unable to afford rent. New York city has an average rent cost of $2,000/month for a single room studio. A full time minimum wage job there earns a person about $1250 per month...

- A person working full time at minimum wage in Canada (and remember that many jobs are now part time) falls below the poverty line in most towns/cities.

- The push to "revitalize" many downtown cores has resulted in a huge decrease in the number of SRO's, which while lousy accomodation are the only affordable housing for many folks.

- 10% of Canadians are living below the poverty line, and many are "working poor".

And on and on.

While the odd person may in fact "choose" to be homeless, the bulk of homeless folks are more than likely lost souls for a variety of reasons, or folks for whom circumstances beat them down.

It is hardly constructive to denigrate these folks.
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james-d
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by james-d »

I,m about done about this subject, with some of the idiots on here, The proof of insanity is when theses idiots keep saying we must keep doing the same thing to help these people that don't want the help,And yet they keep getting the SAME result.Same people on the streets year in and year out. Go hang around down town and you can witness this first hand, And all you folks in Kelowna who have the answers by hosting a special day for the homeless, Good luck, Let me know how that works out for you.When you yutzs complain about drunks druggies and skids on your streets,that scare you. Well I gave you the answer, with the re-instatement of the varancy laws. I don't care about the drunks druggies and skids or their rights, If you want them off the streets, Thats the ONLY way it will work. PERIOD.!!!!!
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Pkunko
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by Pkunko »

What are the varancy laws?
james-d
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by james-d »

The varancy laws were set aside in I believe 1968 when the frog prime minister decided to revamp our code of civil rights, He went away too far with it,And gave more rights to criminals in Canada then to law abiding citizens. Now as to the varancy laws, the police used to be able to look after our streets, And keep them clear of people who MIGHT break the law. If they asked, And you could not show proper identification, a home address and did not have the means to support yourself, you were taken to jail for the night to get you off the streets, to protect our communities.After all, You weren't wandering around at two in the morning looking for flowers.The next day you would be sent on your merry way out of town, Begging was frowned upon and in some cities, against the law,,Citizens did not want to be accousted in parking lots and in some cases bullied into giving handouts, ( spend a couple hours at the super store parking lot) you will see what I mean. I know several women who are afraid to go down town in kelowna for fear of these skids approaching them. But don't worry Kelowna and it's special day for the homeless will fix all that.
I don't care, if they are on our streets I have a base ball bat and so does my wife if and if need be we know how to swing them.Al lot of these skids get on the edge of violence if you do not give in to their begging, So be aware of your personal 3' space.The varancy laws kept our streets free of these types before, I think it would work again. If you don't mind this on our streets, then no problem, give them cash to help them out, See how that works for Ya. Or as some of the experts on here say, try to think up a program to help them. No one could come up with one for the last 80 years, but maybe now....
james-d
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by james-d »

By the way I don't think you would have been arrested for vagrancy ,but would have persuaded in as nice way to accompany the kind police man to a bed at the crowbar hotel for the night. Imagine that a free bed for the night.problem solved.
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Pkunko
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by Pkunko »

Ahh you mean the vagrancy laws. I was confused, I thought the varancy laws might be something to do with remedial education for people who have difficulty with proper spelling.
james-d
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by james-d »

You could be right, I guess some people such as yourself would not figure out what was being said, If there were a spelling error.
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Pkunko
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by Pkunko »

james-d wrote:You could be right, I guess some people such as yourself would not figure out what was being said, If there were a spelling error.


It's not your spelling, I just don't happen to speak barnyard so I have a hard time understanding what point you are trying to make. :runforlife:
WhatThe

Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by WhatThe »

Yup, can't wait for the voting dinosaurs to move on from this world. You'd think people would get smarter as they age but evidently not considering this thread. Homelessness is a choice, unbelievable.
james-d
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by james-d »

Ha Ha I was right a lot of the young people are brainwashed and ignorant The old guys are the ones that know!! Didn't YOU know that ,what the????

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