The push to end homelessness.

Social, economic and environmental issues in our ever-changing world.
WhatThe

Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by WhatThe »

james-d wrote:Spoken like a true brainwashed student who believes the so called experts have all the answers, These so called experts of the modern education system that obviously have ALL the answers,But Can't figure out a way to make it work .Ask your parents,they will tell you what works, always has and always will, and the proof is the thousands who have achieved better for themselves, By having their *bleep* KICKED. GET IT ?????????

I suppose one has to be able to read papers and books to be brainwashed.
And no, since my parents are enlightened and smart individuals they will tell you that the old ways just make things worse. They are able to grasp that science has given us a new understanding of how the world works and the reason these new and profound tactics aren't more prevalent is because..... You guessed it, people like you.
If you think I'm to believe you, bad spelling grammar and all, as opposed to brilliant scientists where I have to read twice, not because of spelling and grammar mind you, to understand the content matter, well, you're just being foolish.

Anyway, I'm going to bother with this thread anymore because you have a penchant for dragging topics into insults and childishness. BTW, how's the plank feel?
flavorflav
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by flavorflav »

To Corksoaker, the cycle I was referring to was that of addiction. I believe in helping addicts,as well as those who smoke and the overweight.There does come a time when those individuals have to want to help themselves and if they have no desire to help themselves to get better,then I say that's too bad because as taxpayers,we're tired of throwing money out the window. If someone REALLY wants help,they can get it in Canada which is still the best place on the planet to live.But make no mistake,people need to show initiative or else,they really don't deserve help.
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CorkSoaker
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by CorkSoaker »

flavorflav wrote:To Corksoaker, the cycle I was referring to was that of addiction. I believe in helping addicts,as well as those who smoke and the overweight.There does come a time when those individuals have to want to help themselves and if they have no desire to help themselves to get better,then I say that's too bad because as taxpayers,we're tired of throwing money out the window. If someone REALLY wants help,they can get it in Canada which is still the best place on the planet to live.But make no mistake,people need to show initiative or else,they really don't deserve help.


I agree that an addict needs the desire to get clean in order for any treatment to be successful. Research has shown though that there can be a short window of opportunity to capitalize on that desire. Being placed on months long waiting list, which is the norm, can be very counter-productive. Treatment opportunities are lacking and recent bed closures are definitely not going to help that.

I too am tired of throwing money out the window on policies and practices that are cost ineffective. Someone previously mentioned the loss of low-income SROs (single room occupancy) in downtown cores and affordable housing pretty much everywhere. This is seen as an obvious major contributor to homelessness. Studies have shown that it would be cheaper to provide low-income and more social housing then to leave most of these people to their own devices; The costs to health care, ambulatory services, law enforcement, other social services, etc. are higher.
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ubcstudent063
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by ubcstudent063 »

I am wondering if the OP has actually spoken to all these homeless people he claims don’t want help, or is he assuming based on reasons we don’t know. As someone who has worked with the homeless, this is not a sentiment that I have come across. I do not believe than anyone who has experienced homelessness would have these opinions. The OP’s ignorance is almost making me believe his posts are a joke to get a rise out of those who want to see people succeed and change.

Homelessness is not something that is going to be solved overnight. Many have been entrenched in the lifestyle and on their own for a while. It can take a long time to build a relationship with enough trust that they are willing to accept help; it’s a process. I suppose the concept of “harm reduction” is a foreign concept to the OP and many others. This may be why there is a negative attitude toward those who want to help. Just because homelessness still exists does not mean that programs in place are not working.

I do not understand how the vagrancy laws would do anything to solve the problem. I can see it making it worse; sending someone to another community where they may have no support network at all. All it would do is get a homeless person off Kelowna’s streets and send them elsewhere. But I guess the OP is thinking about himself and not others. If other cities and towns adopted the same practices, does it not follow that their homeless would get shipped to Kelowna? So what would this accomplish? Also, why should someone be put in cells for the night because they look like they MIGHT commit a crime. Should you and your wife then be locked up for carrying baseball bats because those could be considered a weapon and MIGHT be used to commit an assault? Not everyone living on the street is a criminal. While the OP does not seem to care about their rights, this is Canada and every citizen has rights.

The problem is that we need to shift from being stuck on thinking this problem will never be solved so why bother trying, to figuring out what will HELP with the problem. If it is not going to go away, what would the harm be in trying to lessen the plight of others?

FYI-just because someone has a different opinion that yours james-d, does not make them idiots. No need for name calling.
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steven lloyd
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by steven lloyd »

CorkSoaker wrote: I agree that an addict needs the desire to get clean in order for any treatment to be successful. Research has shown though that there can be a short window of opportunity to capitalize on that desire. Being placed on months long waiting list, which is the norm, can be very counter-productive. Treatment opportunities are lacking and recent bed closures are definitely not going to help that.

Indeed. Research shows that enforcement and punishment can cost as much as ten times more than prevention and treatment
– and that does not include costs incurred by victims. Which way are we throwing money out the window again ?
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by flavorflav »

Well ,here's my suggestion. We create an inexpensive, no frills, barricks style accomodation on an inexpensive piece of land,maybe even native land.How about the natives GIVE the land to whoever is going to operate this facility,not a lease.We have the local carpenter apprentices from OK College build it as part of their schooling.No better training than hands on experience.So far ,so good? Once it is complete,we hire professional staff and continuously supplement that staff with nursing students as part of their practicum.Of course,since addiction is a big part of the homeless problem,that would be the primary focus of the staff.Government run,bare bones ,nothing fancy.Now that's something I could put my tax dollars into.Heck,I'd even volunteer some of my time in the construction phase.Does that make sense to anyone or does anyone have a better idea.
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steven lloyd
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by steven lloyd »

:129: I think that is an idea that could be worked with. Run for office. I'll vote for you.
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by flavorflav »

Thanks. I could run in Mission right now but NDP is not my affiliation
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by sanfish »

flavorflav wrote:Thanks. I could run in Mission right now but NDP is not my affiliation


No *bleep*
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steven lloyd
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by steven lloyd »

flavorflav wrote:Thanks. I could run in Mission right now but NDP is not my affiliation

:137: what's that gotta do with the price of cocaine in City Park ???
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by Trigger69 »

joer2012 wrote:
Really? People have invested in significant properties up there. Multi millions, in some cases. Would you want a homeless camp up there with crackheads, thieves, and mentally unstable people wandering around all day with absolutely NOTHING to do? Or maybe you think they should be on lockdown all day, like a jail. Not to mention the grow ops and crime/gang houses on some of the larger lots (well documented, and reported in various media over the years). People have a right to be NIMBY's and protect their homes in cases like this, where the general population does not even think before suggesting "solutions" to the homeless/addiction problem. If there needs to be a location, it needs to be on the edge of downtown where there are localized integrated social and medical support services ,and something for people to do during treatment/accommodation periods. My two cents.

Also, it wouldn't be such a problem if downtown wasn't littered with the detritus and scum of society selling all manner of street drugs, preying on the weak, dealing in the proceeds of crime, managing theft rings, selling to the greedy, and generally ruining the pleasures of everyday local and tourist people going about their business. Unfortunately, the weakest of us (homeless/addicted) just get pulled back into this cesspit of the Okanagan, and the most naive or innocent (tourists, business owners) are affected by it. I would happily pay a few more bucks to have more cops taking direct and well planned strategic action on the local drug/crime trade, on all levels from the top down to the streets. I would empower the cops to give a few select people some special treatment including a kick up the backside and a suggestion that they leave town sharpish. Screw your civil liberties and fluffy wishy washy BC libertarian attitudes, and empower them. Shackles off, boots on...and GO.

Disclaimer: I do not live in or near June Springs Road. No vested interest in this issue.

How dare you suggest that I was suggesting that we put these people in "lock down" and then in the next breath suggest you would empower police to assault certain people etc. That way of thinking is flawed as much as your idea that the homeless people need to be in a facility near the edge of down town because of access to medical facilites. If you read my post and I think you read some and glazed over the rest...I clearly never said anything about lock down and I did say that facilities be built on the site for the continued support programs...ie medical, psych and other treatments....yes a huge cost but in the long run it would pay off. Further to that....you suggest to simply get rid of the drug dealers down town...well they go where their customers are so you do the math. As far as the properties up on June Springs being valuable, I agree they are....so are the properties down town coupled with the all mighty tourist dollar that goes with them and the property taxes from the businesses that are flawking out of this town because of said problem There is one property (the ranch) on June Springs that has been used for far worse than what I am suggesting for years. Not to mention it doesnt have to be June Springs Rd, any Crown land would due...as long as it met the criteria.
Trigger69
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by Trigger69 »

flavorflav wrote:Well ,here's my suggestion. We create an inexpensive, no frills, barricks style accomodation on an inexpensive piece of land,maybe even native land.How about the natives GIVE the land to whoever is going to operate this facility,not a lease.We have the local carpenter apprentices from OK College build it as part of their schooling.No better training than hands on experience.So far ,so good? Once it is complete,we hire professional staff and continuously supplement that staff with nursing students as part of their practicum.Of course,since addiction is a big part of the homeless problem,that would be the primary focus of the staff.Government run,bare bones ,nothing fancy.Now that's something I could put my tax dollars into.Heck,I'd even volunteer some of my time in the construction phase.Does that make sense to anyone or does anyone have a better idea.


Finally someone who has a handle on what really needs to be done and encorporates a lot of other resourses to boot! Good job!
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by james-d »

The only problem with the barracks idea, Is they would consider this a jail. The druggies can't expect the dealers to deliver to the door. The drunks would not expect the liquor board to deliver to the door, So they would have to go down town shopping.Now if people do not want to see them on the street, then you would have to keep them against their will. ( hence just like jail).So no that idea will not work. How would the ones who beg for a living make out?? they would be bored stiff.I guess they could play catch all day with their dogs. I really apologize for being so harsh with my thoughts towards drunks, druggies and beggars, It was only because people are sick and tired of seeing them on our streets,and are even afraid to go near where they hang out. The beggars follow the people. so I have no idea about what we should do about them. Perhaps if you write your MLA we could get a law passed which would not allow begging on the streets,( oops forgot,we already has that. It didn't work because we infringed on their rights, so it was allowed) I wonder how many beggars are standing outside the Parliament buildings in Ottawa.? I think someone told them Kelowna has nicer weather lol. As I have stated earlier, If you want them off our streets, so they are not visible and don't bother you, Not to mention how much the tourists enjoy their company, then their is only one way. The same way it worked here for years and years. As I mentioned in earlier posts. It is the ONLY way. Try as you might. No other programs will work. Do you think, they all haven't been tried . But perhaps the new wave of younger people have a different view, Let' wait ten ten twenty years and see if it works.
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joer2012
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by joer2012 »

Trigger69 wrote:How dare you....//There is one property (the ranch) on June Springs that has been used for far worse than what I am suggesting for years.


No need for outrage, I didn't mean any offence (apologies) and yes I admit I did scan-read through this. Multitasking...too busy.

Tell me more regarding June Springs. I looked at that property a while ago with some friends, when the ranch was on the market. We were looking at a business investment, but ended up kicking tires. Looked OK at the time and there was no real sign of any shenanigans.
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Re: The push to end homelessness.

Post by cfriedemann »

Too much of "I deserve to get" and not enough of "I will work for it" attitude out there.

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