Churches not stepping up

[southy]

Sorry Fancy not drinking the look aid. This is the organization ( United Church of Canada) that owns Nsramata Centre. From what I hear hundreds of rooms sitting empty .. emergency shelters .. safe homes .. in from the cold but nope they don't want to do that. Why not? It seens to me one word sums it .. you know the word sY one thing do another.

What hundreds of rooms?

One of the Okanagan’s most-needed community resources has opened the doors to its shelter for the winter season

http://www.kelownacapnews.com/news/kelo ... er-season/[/quote

All those empty rooms at Naramata Centre. My reference is simply stating the fact that here you have the united church with this wonderful facility sitting empty - beds made - heat available I'm sure and they are spouting off about a book sale. Yes I understand Naramata Centre is in Naramata, simply using this as one example of what the churches could do.

[Fancy]

So then you acknowledge it doesn't make sense. The property in one jurisdiction isn't going to help those in another.

[Osoyoos_Familyof4]

I know a bit about the operation of the United Church.

First off, in almost every United Church between Kelowna - Osoyoos you can find on any Sunday 1/2 filled churches or even less. They are in such hard times that many churches could face total closure and are at best sharing ministers because few of the parishes can afford dedicated ministers, some Sundays the service is even conducted by laypeople.

Naramta Centre was bought when times were good, it barely can afford to stay open and mostly is available for rental out to any organization willing to pay for it. One of the reasons they are "mostly closed" is because they couldn't afford to pay their unionized staff. The church desperately wanted to support their long term dedicated union employees, they just literally couldn't find the funds.

To the opinion of "just open beds": It's far more complicated then that! You have to first have the money to even operate, Naramata Centre is an old facility without new energy efficient upgrades, and sits right on the water (meaning cold). You have to be fully insured to have guests (especially vulnerable ones). You would have to have transportation out to Naramata twice a day to ferry them back and forth. You have to get approval from neighbours to run a shelter (good luck with that). Because it's Naramata and the guests are vulnerable you have to appreciate the task of emergency services on an unreliable road.
Basically it goes on and on.

Without question there are obscenely rich churches (some of the mega-churches in the USA (and a much smaller number of them in Canada)). There is of course the obscene riches of the Catholic Church. But I can say in all honesty, that there is a world of financial hurt in so many churches in Canada that despite real estate bought 50 years ago are hanging on with the skin of their teeth. Families don't go to church anymore period. The parish is made up of old folks who are donating their $10.00 a week as their pension allows. Most churches operate on a shoe-string budget and despite that they STILL do many many things for charity despite almost bankruptcy.

It is very easy to look at the riches of the Catholic Church and the "Prosperity Churches" in the USA and get bent out of shape about it. Crap! It bends me out of shape big time too! But soooo many churches are really taking their last gasp of existence. Even 20 years ago when I taught in South America on a church sponsored mission (United) we were hand-to-mouth every single month. I have seen first hand the acts of goodness in churches, and I share outrage at the spoils of some churches whose acts of charity pale in comparison to their riches.

As far, as proselytizing as a "penance" before receiving food, or clothes or whatever. I can say that I have witnessed it in a variety of shelters/soup kitchens etc. I can promise you with my heart that it's pretty darn mild, and totally optional. You have the right to not pray, or pray to your choice of creator. It's usually very brief and quick, and about the reminder to ALL of us to have faith/hope that things can improve and we all should be humble and grateful (even/especially those who are shelling out the grub). It's truthfully a pretty minor moment in time in the vast scheme of things, no big whoop! If however you desire spiritual guidance, it might be offered on request, but I've yet to see it pushed on anyone in any operation. C'est La Vie you have the choice to check out the lint on your sweater if it doesn't float your boat, you won't be judged.

[Barney Google]

I've spent a lot of time attending conferences at the Naramata Center and while it would be a great facility it's location and the

varying dynamics involved, as Familyof4 has pointed out, make the site a difficult one. Maybe as a Rehab Center but it's old

and all considerations...it's frustrating cause it could work.

While my good friend Familyof4 has seen things differently I have witnessed some perhaps unintentional pressures put on

homeless that made them uncomfortable and I've had a few of the folks in need I know well tell me as much.

I'm sure all the best of intents have been meant but in some cases not always received as such.

[Lady tehMa]

I feel bad having started this thread . I did not want it to be so anti church . Fancy . I think people like you who have faith are good people . I'm not there yet but my mind is open to faith . Hope I have not ticked anyone off with this

I don't think you've ticked anyone off. If anything you've just given the anti-church folk a place to rant. Sometimes they need that, they often have old hurts that run deep. You will find usually they have the opinion that their hurts outnumber any good the church does.

Have you got a church you're comfortable in?

[Jflem1983]

No I'm not a religious man . Yet

[Lady tehMa]

No I'm not a religious man . Yet

:)

It isn't about being religious, it's about relationship. When you're interested in recommendations, let me know.



Barney Google and Family of 4 have made some good points regarding the ability of the church to reach out. The church does this because it is the mandate, to reach the people with the good news. This is our primary concern. But we are also to consider the welfare of others. It is an increasingly less popular message, as society grows more and more selfish.

[southy]

I feel bad having started this thread . I did not want it to be so anti church . Fancy . I think people like you who have faith are good people . I'm not there yet but my mind is open to faith . Hope I have not ticked anyone off with this

I don't think you've ticked anyone off. If anything you've just given the anti-church folk a place to rant. Sometimes they need that, they often have old hurts that run deep. You will find usually they have the opinion that their hurts outnumber any good the church does.

Have you got a church you're comfortable in?

Really Lady .. I'm neither ticked off or hurt. Just being a realist. Quite the generalization I must say.

[Lady tehMa]

Well southy, if it didn't apply to you then I wasn't referring to you, was I?

If you are being a realist, then you acknowledge the points being made by Fancy, Barney Google and myself. Correct?

[Barney Google]

So we've got threads talking about kids not getting nutritious school lunches, over population of natives in our prisions,

churches not stepping up to help homeless, communities unable to meet the needs of abused and struggling individuals,

food banks that are seeing sky rocketing increases in client numbers, asylum seekers hitting our border communities that are

being overwhelmed, troubled teens and young adults struggling with mountains of issues, remote communities without food or

health care with limited basic resources, volunteer community groups worked to max with little to no funding...the threads

go on and on...yet our great Nation's Leaders see fit to sending millions of Canadian dollars overseas.

I'm sorry but I think that's just plain wrong.

[Lady tehMa]

I certainly don't disagree with you.

Part of our problem is the simple inefficiency of our government. It has become a corrupt parasite, bloated on our blood and toil.

[Barney Google]

I certainly don't disagree with you.

Part of our problem is the simple inefficiency of our government. It has become a corrupt parasite, bloated on our blood and toil.

What gets in my craw and really yanks my chain is seeing our politians at schmancy swanked out dinners galas costing

thousands of dollars a plate, taking trips and flying to all ends of the earth shaking hands and posing for photo opts dragging

all and sundry with them, attending summits and conferences that are nothing more than 'appearances' and handing out bucks

smiling benevolently like its are coming from their own personal pockets!!

Cut the trips and the dinners and conferences and quit hunting for opportunities that make YOU

feel and look good on Canada's dime. Stay at home and do your work and let the people

who actually do the real work do it, cause they're going to end up doing anyway with without you

and the money Canada saves from ending our Leaders wastrel self promoting could probably go a long way to

solving some of our issues here at home.

[MAPearce]

I'm wondering if only 3% of the money that goes to churches ends up helping poor people
and the 97% goes to build buildings, buy real estate, and pay wages.

And charities? 3% to the poor?

Take a look around town .. You should notice some of the buildings churches put up are solely for people who just can`t afford the outrageous rent in this town.. Columbus Gardens on Burtch at Springfield ,McGivneys on Benvoulin , there's one on Parkside at Springfield one on Houghton at Franklin and more .. Let`s not forget the seniors housing units allover this . But they do more than that when you consider St. Vincvent De Paul , Freedoms Door and all the likewise charitable innitiatives they engage in. All funded from their faithfuls pocket books that have already been taxed by all levels of gov`ts that don`t seem able to pony up untill election time then forget all about it after it`s done.

I`d say the churches do way more with the money they got that has already been carved up by the taxman and dished out the people who earned it....

[Lady tehMa]

What gets in my craw and really yanks my chain is seeing our politians at schmancy swanked out dinners galas costing

thousands of dollars a plate, taking trips and flying to all ends of the earth shaking hands and posing for photo opts dragging

all and sundry with them, attending summits and conferences that are nothing more than 'appearances' and handing out bucks

smiling benevolently like its are coming from their own personal pockets!!

Cut the trips and the dinners and conferences and quit hunting for opportunities that make YOU

feel and look good on Canada's dime. Stay at home and do your work and let the people

who actually do the real work do it, cause they're going to end up doing anyway with without you

and the money Canada saves from ending our Leaders wastrel self promoting could probably go a long way to

solving some of our issues here at home.

It all happens because of the apathy of the general populace. We're allowing this to happen. Look at the homeless situation - even the title of this thread reflects it. It could be rephrased as "Why isn't someone else doing something about this? But it's not my problem."

There is a culture of indignant offense happening, but should you suggest someone actually DO something? Well, no, No my problem. Someone else can do that.

I have been that someone else. I have helped and volunteered and donated. I have given food and socks out. Right now I'm trying to get my autoimmune disease back under control and handle the parental end of a (high school) grad year; when I have more strength I will find my place again in the ranks of the doers.

The critics of the church really don't know how many of us there are because we generally don't sound our own horns, we just DO. I'd like to see some of these armchair quarterbacks get into the game though, we could always use more players.

[nikonfan]

I have read the posts in this forum and there are a lot of misconceptions about what some churches do behind the scenes. Some of the comments in this forum are completely false and off base. The church I attend and the ones that I have attended are very pro community and we give thousands away to charities, causes and support. You are able to go into our church and ask to see the books but churches don't blow there own horn! They do things quietly and under the radar. Our church donates the building for different groups, memorial services, we collect for the food bank, we support Freedoms Door, Gospel Mission, Teen Challenge, we donated 10% right off the top of our building fund, we have supported new refuges in Canada, we support under privialaged children locally and across the globe. Most of the people in churches donate at least 10% of their income to these efforts and many give way more than that. If the churches pulled out of funding for these local places to help the under privileged it would be catastrophic! You might not agree with what the churches preach or whatever but don't knock a group of people who generously help out those in the community who need it the most. At least we are trying to do something not just whining about it in a forum.........maybe some on this site could pitch in 10% of there paycheque (every payday) to the foodbank, Freedoms Door, Gospel Mission and be part of the salution too.