Do you believe fake news?

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my5cents
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Re: Do you believe fake news?

Post by my5cents »

samsquench07 wrote: Sep 11th, 2021, 9:24 pm You just proved trump right again. He never once said to take bleach.
It was hydroxycholquine. A drug to treat malaria. And maybe thought to treat Covid. Seem to not be effective. But in early going, why not look into different options.

Same as ivermectin. Everybody reads one internet line and thinks it’s strictly just for animals. Some say this actually works pre Covid.
So,,, you sticking with that he never suggested sunlight and bleach ? Was it his double at the press conference on the 23rd of April 2020 at the White House Briefing Room ?
"A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?"

He continued.

"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful."
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"
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d0nb
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Re: Do you believe fake news?

Post by d0nb »

samsquench07 wrote: Sep 11th, 2021, 9:24 pm
d0nb wrote: Sep 11th, 2021, 7:14 pm Oh yeah, the bleach nonsense. It remains one of the dumbest but also one of the most widely believed and repeated Trump fables, almost on a par with his imagined praise of racists or the one about the Russian prostitutes. :138:
You just proved trump right again. He never once said to take bleach.
It’s nonsense to suggest that DT suggested using bleach to combat the virus; he only wondered aloud whether there might be some way of disabling the virus in the lungs by exposing it to a disinfectant. This is something that could be done in a lavage (lung washing) procedure or some such. Even left-leaning “Politifact” saw what a crock that one was:
Trump did not explicitly recommend ingesting a disinfectant like bleach. But he did express interest in exploring whether disinfectants could be applied to the site of a coronavirus infection inside the body, such as the lungs. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... onavirus/
samsquench07 wrote: Sep 11th, 2021, 9:24 pmIt was hydroxycholquine. A drug to treat malaria. And maybe thought to treat Covid. Seem to not be effective. But in early going, why not look into different options.
Yes, it never hurts to have a leader that is open to considering all options; they should not be ridiculed for doing so. Trump's openness to getting things done greatly accelerated the development of vaccines, and has saved many lives.
samsquench07 wrote: Sep 11th, 2021, 9:24 pmSame as ivermectin. Everybody reads one internet line and thinks it’s strictly just for animals. Some say this actually works pre Covid.
Many front-line doctors have incorporated hydroxycholquine, ivermectin, vitamins, etc. into their treatment of COVID with what they say is considerable success; the knee-jerk dismissal of such treatments just because “TRUMP” is unfortunate and has cost lives.

Sharyl Attkisson, one of the few objective journalists, has compiled a list of some of the disinformation (fake news) the media have inflicted on a gullible public:
We the media have "fact-checked" President Trump like we have fact-checked no other human being on the planet, and he's certainly given us plenty to write about. That's probably why it's so easy to find lists enumerating and examining his mistakes, missteps and "lies."

But as self-appointed arbiters of truth, we've largely excused our own unprecedented string of fact-challenged reporting. The truth is, formerly well-respected, top news organizations are making repeat, unforced errors in numbers that were unheard of just a couple of years ago.

Our repeat mistakes involve declaring that Trump's claims are "lies" when they are matters of opinion, or when the truth between conflicting sources is unknowable; taking Trump's statements and events out of context; reporting secondhand accounts against Trump without attribution as if they're established fact; relying on untruthful, conflicted sources; and presenting reporter opinions in news stories,without labeling them as opinions.

What's worse, we defend ourselves by trying to convince the public that our mistakes are actually a virtue because we (sometimes) correct them. Or we blame Trump for why we're getting so much wrong. Is a little bit like a police officer taking someone to jail for DUI, then driving home drunk himself: he may be correct to arrest the suspect, but he should certainly know better than to commit the same violation.
Notable Mistakes and Missteps in Major Media Reporting on Donald Trump
https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/06/50- ... tive-list/

Along with the rest of us, I'm sure that Sharyl knows that the truth will have little impact on those who are predisposed
to believe whatever the media say about Trump, no matter how insanely inaccurate and pejorative it is.
When you come to Parliament on your first day, you wonder how you ever got here. After that, you wonder how the other 263 members got here. -- John Diefenbaker
my5cents
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Re: Do you believe fake news?

Post by my5cents »

d0nb wrote: Sep 12th, 2021, 4:07 pm
samsquench07 wrote: Sep 11th, 2021, 9:24 pm
You just proved trump right again. He never once said to take bleach.
It’s nonsense to suggest that DT suggested using bleach to combat the virus; he only wondered aloud whether there might be some way of disabling the virus in the lungs by exposing it to a disinfectant. This is something that could be done in a lavage (lung washing) procedure or some such.
Your posts are obvious evidence of how listening to FOX and the other Conservative fake news can actually cause you to believe false "facts".

Knowing how fake news has convinced some. I not only included the transcript of what Trump stated, but the video. For all to see, hear, and read and to enable others to decide for themselves.

"he only wondered aloud whether there might be some way of disabling the virus in the lungs by exposing it to a disinfectant".... He only wondered out loud ?

Quote from Trump: "And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside"

He was the President of the USA at an official press conference and posed the questions. That's just plain nuts.

I didn't post the truth to try to convince you or d0nb, that'd be a waste of time. But others need to have the facts presented when fake news is spread.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"
rustled
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Re: Do you believe fake news?

Post by rustled »

my5cents wrote: Sep 12th, 2021, 5:22 pm
d0nb wrote: Sep 12th, 2021, 4:07 pm

It’s nonsense to suggest that DT suggested using bleach to combat the virus; he only wondered aloud whether there might be some way of disabling the virus in the lungs by exposing it to a disinfectant. This is something that could be done in a lavage (lung washing) procedure or some such.
Your posts are obvious evidence of how listening to FOX and the other Conservative fake news can actually cause you to believe false "facts".

Knowing how fake news has convinced some. I not only included the transcript of what Trump stated, but the video. For all to see, hear, and read and to enable others to decide for themselves.

"he only wondered aloud whether there might be some way of disabling the virus in the lungs by exposing it to a disinfectant".... He only wondered out loud ?

Quote from Trump: "And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside"

He was the President of the USA at an official press conference and posed the questions. That's just plain nuts.

I didn't post the truth to try to convince you or d0nb, that'd be a waste of time. But others need to have the facts presented when fake news is spread.
Speaking of the facts:

Whole lung lavage is, pretty much, the medical process of injecting saline solution into the lungs. Saline is a natural disinfectant.

What he said out loud made reasonable sense. When the President suggests hope - the President is human and understands people need hope, despite the "usefulness" of fear - it is not up to the news to make a mockery of it, then double down.

Rational reporting would have been along the lines of: "What the President is suggesting would be similar to whole lung lavage, which is performed by medical professionals under general anesthetic and requires an overnight stay in hospital," followed up with sensible questions to one of the specialists already using this procedure for other conditions, e.g. "Might this be a potential treatment for Covid?" The specialist then gets to say "Not at this time, but we are certainly looking at everything."

Instead: nonsense about "don't try this at home". As though that was ethical journalism - as though the continued politicization of the pandemic was ever what viewers needed most.

Despite years of this sort of idiotic failure of the "news" to do their jobs, it still seems odd to me that any rational person chooses, with intention, to continue to instead accept and promote the hype in the media about what he said on this particular topic. It's a good example of the overall problem, IMO.
my5cents
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Re: Do you believe fake news?

Post by my5cents »

rustled wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 7:34 am Speaking of the facts:

Whole lung lavage is, pretty much, the medical process of injecting saline solution into the lungs. Saline is a natural disinfectant.

What he said out loud made reasonable sense. When the President suggests hope - the President is human and understands people need hope, despite the "usefulness" of fear - it is not up to the news to make a mockery of it, then double down.

Rational reporting would have been along the lines of: "What the President is suggesting would be similar to whole lung lavage, which is performed by medical professionals under general anesthetic and requires an overnight stay in hospital," followed up with sensible questions to one of the specialists already using this procedure for other conditions, e.g. "Might this be a potential treatment for Covid?" The specialist then gets to say "Not at this time, but we are certainly looking at everything."

Instead: nonsense about "don't try this at home". As though that was ethical journalism - as though the continued politicization of the pandemic was ever what viewers needed most.

Despite years of this sort of idiotic failure of the "news" to do their jobs, it still seems odd to me that any rational person chooses, with intention, to continue to instead accept and promote the hype in the media about what he said on this particular topic. It's a good example of the overall problem, IMO.
Every source of the definition that I found for the process of "lavage", describes "flushing", "washing" "cleansing by irrigation", none describe the introduction by "injection".

However, for argument sake I'll allow that Trump meant to flush one's lungs when he said "inject", so as a public service, how about "injecting" bleach into your lungs and report back how it goes. You might want to get your affairs in order before you do so.

All these interpretations of what Trump really meant when he said .... is reminiscent of the highly acclaimed movie "Being There". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_There

Although I'd be more inclined to take advice from Chauncey Gardiner than Trump.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"
rustled
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Re: Do you believe fake news?

Post by rustled »

my5cents wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 9:52 am
rustled wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 7:34 am Speaking of the facts:

Whole lung lavage is, pretty much, the medical process of injecting saline solution into the lungs. Saline is a natural disinfectant.

What he said out loud made reasonable sense. When the President suggests hope - the President is human and understands people need hope, despite the "usefulness" of fear - it is not up to the news to make a mockery of it, then double down.

Rational reporting would have been along the lines of: "What the President is suggesting would be similar to whole lung lavage, which is performed by medical professionals under general anesthetic and requires an overnight stay in hospital," followed up with sensible questions to one of the specialists already using this procedure for other conditions, e.g. "Might this be a potential treatment for Covid?" The specialist then gets to say "Not at this time, but we are certainly looking at everything."

Instead: nonsense about "don't try this at home". As though that was ethical journalism - as though the continued politicization of the pandemic was ever what viewers needed most.

Despite years of this sort of idiotic failure of the "news" to do their jobs, it still seems odd to me that any rational person chooses, with intention, to continue to instead accept and promote the hype in the media about what he said on this particular topic. It's a good example of the overall problem, IMO.
Every source of the definition that I found for the process of "lavage", describes "flushing", "washing" "cleansing by irrigation", none describe the introduction by "injection".

However, for argument sake I'll allow that Trump meant to flush one's lungs when he said "inject", so as a public service, how about "injecting" bleach into your lungs and report back how it goes. You might want to get your affairs in order before you do so.

All these interpretations of what Trump really meant when he said .... is reminiscent of the highly acclaimed movie "Being There". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_There

Although I'd be more inclined to take advice from Chauncey Gardiner than Trump.
You're splitting hairs - IMO to support what the "news" did with what he said, and to excuse their reasons for ignoring their responsibilities as news journalists.

He wasn't giving medical advice, he was attempting to give hope. While the term "inject" may well be medically incorrect, the process involves using a tube to introduce the saline into the lungs - plenty of laypeople would think of this as injecting the disinfectant into the lungs via a tube. The term "disinfectant" was correct.

It seems to me that if Biden had made the same suggestion in the same way, the media would likely have reported the way I suggested they ought to have reported it when Trump made the suggestion: objectively. Instead, they chose to do what you seem to me to be intent on doing - eschewing rational objectivity to bash the president, who was simply attempting to give people some hope.

IMO, it's disappointing when "journalists" and "news agencies" behave as though bashing a president takes precedence over their agency's credibility and integrity.
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Re: Do you believe fake news?

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*removed*
Last edited by ferri on Sep 13th, 2021, 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Baiting
When I retire I want to be careful not to play too much golf. Two rounds a day should be plenty.
Septuagenarian
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Re: Do you believe fake news?

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two wrote: Aug 27th, 2021, 10:41 am Have you read a book written in the 50s by a once famous psychologist Joost Meraloo which examines mass psychosis, titled "The rape of the mind" ? here is the free ebook in a link
https://archive.org/details/TheRapeOfTh ... 1/mode/2up
On two's recommendation, I downloaded and read Meraloo's book and judged it to be an excellent prerequisite for a discussion like this thread.

And now I'd like to revisit one reason why.
Movie at the Ellipse: A Study in Fascist Propaganda

Scholars on the Nazis and anti-Semitism have seen this before

https://www.justsecurity.org/74504/movi ... ropaganda/

On January 6, Trump supporters gathered at a rally at Washington DC’s Ellipse Park, regaled by various figures from Trump world, including Donald Trump Jr. and Rudy Giuliani. Directly following Giuliani’s speech, the organizers played a video. To a scholar of fascist propaganda, well-versed in the history of the National Socialist’s pioneering use of videos in political propaganda, it was clear, watching it, what dangers it portended. In it, we see themes and tactics that history warns pose a violent threat to liberal democracy. Given the aims of fascist propaganda – to incite and mobilize – the events that followed were predictable.

Before decoding what the video presents, it is important to take a step back and discuss the structure of fascist ideology and how it can mobilize its most strident supporters to take violent actions. . . .
liisgo
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Re: Do you believe fake news?

Post by liisgo »

After watching Global news a few times last few weeks I'll comment here.
The news might not always be purposely fake, however it is very much driven by the need of this new society.
Its pushed to always paint a picture, be slightly misleading or done in such a way to create and support other agenda's and campaign's.
Of the stories, 3 of them struck me as being very poorly portrayed to the people all to make a story be more extreme, and leaning towards a certain bias. Seems the same bias-ness of issue's in our society is how the news likes to play their stories.
In these 3 stories, the pictures had nothing to do with the story. In fact one story showed a location and and item that's not even in this province. But the picture definitely would get your attention more than if it was about the real location.
Then the other 2, full, very important information was left out. Like on purpose as it would definitely would have left the watchers with a different view.
So, maybe not fake, but very much created to adhere, follow, lean support in a certain direct as the main purpose of the story.
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Re: Do you believe fake news?

Post by Silverstarqueen »

my5cents wrote: Sep 12th, 2021, 2:21 pm
samsquench07 wrote: Sep 11th, 2021, 9:24 pm You just proved trump right again. He never once said to take bleach.
It was hydroxycholquine. A drug to treat malaria. And maybe thought to treat Covid. Seem to not be effective. But in early going, why not look into different options.

Same as ivermectin. Everybody reads one internet line and thinks it’s strictly just for animals. Some say this actually works pre Covid.
So,,, you sticking with that he never suggested sunlight and bleach ? Was it his double at the press conference on the 23rd of April 2020 at the White House Briefing Room ?
"A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?"
He continued.
"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful."
Trump said "disinfectant" he was referring to reports that disinfectants (like bleach) can kill the coronavirus on contact in seconds. So, logically the next step is to inject it right? cause then it will "do a number on the lungs".
He was not joking.
People will try to rewrite that bit of history, but the videos don't lie.
Same problem with efforts to make Jan 5 insurrection look like a pep rally. The videos and those police officers fighting for their lives and their country are horrendous. I hope no one forgets that day and what really happened.
Lavage the lungs with disinfectant? Would kill anyone.
I am sure that if he would have run that suggestion past any of his health officers before he put it out there for the public , they would have advised him it was completely wrong and a dangerous suggestion for a leader to make. Especially because his words held a lot of weight with a lot of people, and he had medical professionals right there in an attempt to lend his suggestion some weight.
If some ordinary person had said that, most people would have discounted it and not given the suggestion another thought.
Last edited by Silverstarqueen on Sep 19th, 2021, 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you believe fake news?

Post by rustled »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Sep 19th, 2021, 9:03 am
my5cents wrote: Sep 12th, 2021, 2:21 pm
So,,, you sticking with that he never suggested sunlight and bleach ? Was it his double at the press conference on the 23rd of April 2020 at the White House Briefing Room ?



Trump said "disinfectant" he was referring to reports that disinfectants (like bleach) can kill the coronavirus on contact in seconds. So, logically the next step is to inject it right? cause then it will "do a number on the lungs".
He was not joking.
People will try to rewrite that bit of history, but the videos don't lie.
Same problem with efforts to make Jan 5 insurrection look like a pep rally. The videos and those police officers fighting for their lives and their country are horrendous. I hope no one forgets that day and what really happened.
The media botched this, either through their own bias or through utter incompetence.

Any journalist concerned with their own integrity would have explained whole lung lavage for their audience, and followed up with an expert.

Instead, these "journalists" did the same thing you've done here - which is your prerogative as someone posting on social media, but entirely inconsistent with any reasonable standard of journalistic integrity.

Creating what sells to the gullible isn't the same thing as reporting the news, and when "news agencies'" forsake one for the other they are behaving in a manner consistent with what most of us would logically and reasonably consider "fake news".
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Re: Do you believe fake news?

Post by Silverstarqueen »

The media was very careful with Trump, to generally show the original video where possible, so that there could be no denying what actually happened or what actually was said, and Trump's demeanor. (so no one could claim later that he was just joking, and they tried). The media is not there to fix stupid or dangerous comments by Political Leaders. Now the Health officers there could have put on their big boy pants, stood up and corrected the President, but that would have been the end of their career. They needed to hang in there so they would not be replaced by boot lickers. This could not have happened to another president because most of them had the good sense to run hair-brained ideas past their experts, or just follow the experts lead,as leader generally do. Discussions or differences of opinion are usually ironed out behind closed doors, instead of using Public Health officials sitting quietly by, as some sign that the Pres was on the cutting edge of Covid treatments.
A president does not give his people "hope" by suggesting dangerous treatments that have no basis in science.
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Re: Do you believe fake news?

Post by rustled »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Sep 19th, 2021, 9:03 am
my5cents wrote: Sep 12th, 2021, 2:21 pm
So,,, you sticking with that he never suggested sunlight and bleach ? Was it his double at the press conference on the 23rd of April 2020 at the White House Briefing Room ?



Trump said "disinfectant" he was referring to reports that disinfectants (like bleach) can kill the coronavirus on contact in seconds. So, logically the next step is to inject it right? cause then it will "do a number on the lungs".
He was not joking.
People will try to rewrite that bit of history, but the videos don't lie.
Same problem with efforts to make Jan 5 insurrection look like a pep rally. The videos and those police officers fighting for their lives and their country are horrendous. I hope no one forgets that day and what really happened.
Lavage the lungs with disinfectant? Would kill anyone.
Responding to what you've added to your post in your edit:

Whole lung lavage does use a disinfectant saline solution. Had the "journalists" done their job, you would know this.

Silverstarqueen wrote:I am sure that if he would have run that suggestion past any of his health officers before he put it out there for the public , they would have advised him it was completely wrong and a dangerous suggestion for a leader to make.
Likely.

And had the "journalists" done their job, the medical professionals would have explained this. Instead, it was all about "injecting bleach".
Silverstarqueen wrote: Especially because his words held a lot of weight with a lot of people, and he had medical professionals right there in an attempt to lend his suggestion some weight.
Again, the "journalists" were more excited about the opportunity to mock Trump than they were about doing their jobs as journalists.
Silverstarqueen wrote: If some ordinary person had said that, most people would have discounted it and not given the suggestion another thought.
Most people did.

And more people, perhaps including yourself, would have understood what was being discussed IF THE JOURNALISTS HAD DONE THEIR JOB, instead of doing what you have been doing here: taking the opportunity instead to engage in the promulgation of a fake news story intended to denigrate Trump, rather than discuss whether or not doctors were determining if whole lung lavage could prove to be a useful treatment.
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Re: Do you believe fake news?

Post by Silverstarqueen »

The journalists job is to show the unvarnished truth. Now they can, after the fact (since they had no warning of Trump doing this), interview health experts on the advisability of what Trump was suggesting. And they did that. There was no way to white-wash this without misrepresenting what happened. Trump's team tried to do just that, pretend he didn't say what he said, or he didn't mean what he said, and blame the messenger, just as you are doing.
Now if Trump wanted to come on video later and present at some other news conference where his orginal idea was wrong, or what else could be done, other than injecting disinfectant into the body, he could have done that too. But he made a point of never admitting he was wrong, and would continually blame everyone else for his demise, for "misrepresenting" him, when the video showed exactly what he did.
Look at the difference in how Kenny handled Alberta's reopening. He admitted he had miscalculated, set a new course, and he's going to fix what went wrong. He was trying to give his people hope too, but he made a mistake, admitted it, and I hope he will be respected for that, because he is showing leadership and preparing to do the right thing.
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Re: Do you believe fake news?

Post by my5cents »

rustled wrote: Sep 19th, 2021, 9:27 am ...............IF THE JOURNALISTS HAD DONE THEIR JOB, instead of doing what you have been doing here: taking the opportunity instead to engage in the promulgation of a fake news story intended to denigrate Trump, rather than discuss whether or not doctors were determining if whole lung lavage could prove to be a useful treatment.
"instead of doing what you have been doing here"....."promulgating a fake news story intended to denigrate Trump" ???

What ! ? Quoting Trump, is spreading a fake news story ???? Are you kidding ?

"intending to denigrate Trump"... I don't think Trump needed any help in that area.

The media, should have what ? said: "What we think what Mr Trump meant was....." what ? lavage one's lungs with bleach ?

It's still nuts ! There was no excuse for saying what he said at the White House briefing. "but what he meant was...", "he was just thinking out loud" and my favourite "he didn't say that"

No he wasn't "thinking out loud", it was out loud but didn't involve "thinking".

During his run up to becoming president and during his term, how many times did Trump do or say something completely false or stupid, or as in this case, ridiculously stupid ?
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"

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