Looking for honest input, not hate or anger.

[mexi cali]

I have wanted to introduce this subject for a long time now because it will be provocative. It is very timely and while it originated in the UK is relevant to virtually anywhere in the Western World today. I want it to be respectful but I really want to hear what "sane" people are truly feeling.

For the record; I am not a bigot. I have no beef with any particular group. I read the news like everyone else and I am concerned about the "rightness" of this article. I see this attitude everyday.

I am not necessarily the most PC person (or at all sometimes) but I have strong feelings about the unequal playing field that is more and more becoming tilted when it comes to racism.

I think that in a world where we (wasps) were the most prevalent when it came to power and money and presence, we are seeing the tables turn but I don't see reverse racism as being the answer. titt for tat has no place in such a potentially violent subject. My view is that it's past time to start work on reversing the direction of the machine. It will take decades but it is work that needs to be started in order for it to ever become done.

I want your opinion on this before I start the thread and depending on your input, I may not start it at all because I don't want a *bleep* match and I don't want anger. I want honesty.

So you all know that I am serious about this being an honest debate, the above was sent to Ferri before I posted this. I really don't want anger and hatred, this deserves honesty and intellect.

What you see below was printed in news papers in the UK. Europe is suffering particularly in todays racially charged climate. Some of the terms and tags have been altered for integritys sake (we all know what they are) but the post is pretty much intact. Please read it and respond appropriately with how you personally feel about the topic of racism from a global perspective and whether or not you feel like the tables are being turned on the white population in these areas.

I have been wondering about why whites are racists, and no other race is?

There are British Africans, British Chinese, British Asian, British Turks, etc.,etc., etc.

And then there are just British. You know what I mean, plain ole English people that were born here. You can include the Welsh, the Scottish and the people who live off our shores of Great Britain on tiny islands. Yes, we are all true Brits.

The others that live here call me 'White boy,' 'Cracker,' 'Honkey,' 'Whitey,' 'Caveman' 'White trash' and that's OK...

But if I call you, N word, Spade, Towel head, Paki, Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook or Chink, you call me a racist.

You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you. So why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?

You have the Muslim Council of Great Britain.

You have Black History Month.

You have swimming pools for Asian women.

You have Islamic banks for Muslims only.

You have year of the dragon day for Chinese people.

If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.

If we had White History Month, we'd be racists.

If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance' OUR lives, we'd be racists.

A white woman could not be in the Miss Black Britain or Miss Asia, but any colour can be in the Miss UK.

If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships, you know we'd be racists.

There are over 200 openly proclaimed Muslim only schools in England. Yet if there were 'White schools only', that would be racist!

In the Bradford riots and Toxteth riots, you believed that you were standing-up for your race and rights. If we stood-up for our race and rights, you would call us racists.

You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid to announce it. But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.

We fly our flag, we are racists. If we celebrate St George's day we are racists.

You can fly your flag and it’s called diversity. You celebrate your cultures and it’s called multiculturalism.

We are robbed, carjacked, our daughters are raped but, when a white police officer arrests a black gang member or beats up an Asian drug dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.

I am proud.... but you call me a racist.

Why is it that only whites can be racists??

[alanjh595]

I agree with the above, and yes I have been called some of those racist names (I am white of British decent). Not ever was I offended by the remark. I never thought about it much until I read that article. I have noticed too, that other races are racist against others than whites.
There are also whites that are racist against other whites. Like the French hate the Belgians for example. The European whites are Caucasian. All whites are Caucasian, but not all Caucasians are white.
White and Caucasian are terms that have been widely termed as the same. But it is only a misconception. A White is never called as Caucasian whereas a Caucasian can be called as white. ...

The Caucasian race consists of North Africans, Arabs, Whites, Somalians, some people in India and Ethiopians.

Those that use racial slang and slurs are ignorant and small minded.

[alanjh595]

I am guessing as to what the root cause of this imbalance is due to predominate race being white.

White Americans (including White Hispanics) constitute the majority, with a total of about 246,660,710, or 77.35% of the population as of 2014. Non-Hispanic whites totaled about 197,870,516, or 62.06% of the U.S. population.

https://www.google.ca/search?source=hp& ... gvgYjndEdk

The whites have been responsible for more oppression of other races and they have not forgotten that and they are still angry.

Also, we have laws in North America to protect the rights of other races and treat them with the same rights and privileges that we have.

To add to the prejudices aside from race, there are also rights based upon age, gender, sexual orientation, disability and religion that we seem to have to have laws to protect. It is really too bad that we have to have such laws in the first place.

[Gilchy]

From a simplistic point of view, I think the answer may have to do with punching up vs punching down.

By that I mean common white slurs (white trash, etc) frequently come across as trying to put down (ie reduce from a high station). Slurs towards other races/ethnicities, etc are not so much of a put-down as a reminder of place.

All of the slurs in the italicized article aren't "insults", per se, rather otherizing comments that reduce the recipient to a historical lessor station.

I'm not saying either option is good, but the dynamics of historical power affect the usage. Where it gets fuzzy on an individual level is that many white people do not feel that they personally have benefited from this "white privilege" that they keep hearing about, because they've never experienced it any other way/

As a white male, I've never felt like I was automatically suspicious when entering a store, generalized as lazy when applying for a job, unsafe when going for a run on a dark street at night, etc. As these thoughts do not natively cross my mind, it would be easy to forget that other people do not get this same benefit.

By "punching down", I mean white insults to other groups serve to effectively remind them that they do not have access to these same benefits, that they are somehow lessor; whereas the "punching up" is an attempt to pull a white person down to that same level.

The reason that "White Pride Day" or an organization for the advancement of Whites is viewed as racist is, for the vast majority of modern economic history, Western Society has been set up for the benefit of Whites, frequently at the expense of Others.

[jimmy4321]

"Why I can't call you this but you can call me that" usually comes off as an excuse for white people to say whatever they want to these groups. If we can agree it's wrong then I don't see the point in joining in and perpetuating it.
For the record i'm a white male, middle aged i guess, and straight. I don't feel victimized or in any way limited due to who i am, you can call me whatever the *bleep* you want, it carries no weight.
I feel fortunate, not guilty. So I don't get it , Thankfully
Sounds like a "poor ol me" letter

[Catsumi]

As long as there has been bipedals on earth they have formed groups with customs, observances, religions, language, political stripes and skin color issues.

It is the US vs THEM mentality that results in tribalism or racism.

Call me a pessimist or a realist but there's not a hope in hell that will ever change. It seems to be a built-in feature of our makeup.

"Lower" life forms are also into tribalism where one ant species enslaves or kills others. Same with monkey and ape tribes, wasps, wild dogs, etc.

Possibly the best we can hope for is that the name calling stop and that NO ONE group or tribe be favored over others by government edict. We all know that will never happen either.

[Catsumi]

^^^^

By this reasoning, OT, we shall never get along together until the aliens arrive.

I can wait.

[Merry]

I agree with Catsumi that the "us versus them" mentality seems (unfortunately) to be part of the human condition (regardless of race or ethnicity).

I've observed racist behaviour in just about every place I've ever lived, and it hasn't only been limited to white folk.

My son married an indigenous girl, who I really like and who I thought I got on well with. Until last Christmas, when I was introduced to her extended family, and experienced strong vibes that my hubby and I were "outsiders". We were definitely not made to feel part of the group when all together, and I found out afterwards that we'd been talked about in a very negative way when we decided to go to bed a little earlier than the rest of them (keep in mind we were the oldest present, and were genuinely tired by about 10, having been up very early that day). They decided we'd left early because we were 'stuck up" and "racist" as opposed to simply being tired. I also found out after the fact that a discussion I'd had with one family member (which I thought was both informative and intelligent) was also construed as being racist (because I had an opposing view).

Naturally I was very upset to hear all this, particularly when my daughter in law refused to believe my husbands and my denials, instead choosing to believe her own family's version of events (neither she nor anybody else had overheard the discussion in question). This whole incident caused a lot of trouble between us and my son and his wife, and left a very bad taste in my mouth.

We eventually "made up" but I doubt things will ever be the same between us. This was the first time in my entire life that anyone had ever accused me of being racist, and to have it come from one of my own family members made it even worse.
So yes, minority groups can and do unfairly accuse white people of being racist. And yes, it can have a very negative effect on your life.

[Ka-El]

My son married an indigenous girl, who I really like and who I thought I got on well with. Until last Christmas, when I was introduced to her extended family, and experienced strong vibes that my hubby and I were "outsiders". We were definitely not made to feel part of the group when all together, and I found out afterwards that we'd been talked about in a very negative way when we decided to go to bed a little earlier than the rest of them (keep in mind we were the oldest present, and were genuinely tired by about 10, having been up very early that day). They decided we'd left early because we were 'stuck up" and "racist" as opposed to simply being tired. I also found out after the fact that a discussion I'd had with one family member (which I thought was both informative and intelligent) was also construed as being racist (because I had an opposing view).

Naturally I was very upset to hear all this, particularly when my daughter in law refused to believe my husbands and my denials, instead choosing to believe her own family's version of events (neither she nor anybody else had overheard the discussion in question). This whole incident caused a lot of trouble between us and my son and his wife, and left a very bad taste in my mouth.

We eventually "made up" but I doubt things will ever be the same between us. This was the first time in my entire life that anyone had ever accused me of being racist, and to have it come from one of my own family members made it even worse.

I can see that happening. It is very sad. This won’t make it any easier but I think you have to appreciate that our history with indigenous peoples is not as “historical” as some people want everyone else to believe. That is not an excuse and doesn’t make what happened in your case any easier to take, but it does show just how far we all still have to go.

[alanjh595]

^^^^
By this reasoning, OT, we shall never get along together until the aliens arrive.
I can wait.

Just saying we need a common enemy to fight. We won't change until faced with great adversity.

Maybe global warming or air pollution might be common enemies that we should ALL work together to battle ?

[Ka-El]

Maybe global warming or air pollution might be common enemies that we should ALL work together to battle ?

One would think either one of those issues might have been enough to unite us, but sadly, they have only served to further polarize us politically. As a single race - the human race - we seem to have a lot going against us. Pretty damn sad.

[alanjh595]

Maybe global warming or air pollution might be common enemies that we should ALL work together to battle ?

One would think either one of those issues might have been enough to unite us, but sadly, they have only served to further polarize us politically. As a single race - the human race - we seem to have a lot going against us. Pretty damn sad.

we seem to have a lot going against us. Pretty damn sad.

Yes, it is. What is it going to take ? Waiting for Aliens to get us to band together and put down our racial biases is not a viable option. I, like you have traveled Asia and seen some incredible things that are everyday occurrences. It was a real culture shock.
I felt pity at first for so many, then I felt amazement at how resilient these people of different cultures are.
There was acceptance of the people, their culture, and how they have adapted to the environment they have become.

Every grade 12 student should have to go and spend 1 month in a non-English speaking country like China or India as part of their curriculum for graduation. Real-life experiences can teach so much more than classrooms ever could. The students will come back and teach their peers about the experiences that they had.

For me, I have a completely different outlook and appreciate other cultures. I have also acquired a hunger for more insight and information about the countries that I did not visit. It was a life/opinion changing experience.

After several years of implementing this program in our high schools, would make a big changes towards reducing racial bigotry.

[Bsuds]

It would be a much nicer world if we all just got along.

[alanjh595]

It would be a much nicer world if we all just got along.

YES, it would ! Every race and country has something to offer for all the others to share and benefit from, even down to fishing, food preservation, to farming, and space travel. (I know this comment is over simplified).

Just for an example, an indigenous person from Africa could teach a California rich kid how to hunt for food. (Might be important if the aliens invaded).

Now, I am getting way off track and I am......

[Ka-El]

It would be a much nicer world if we all just got along.

The forums would collapse

(see your signature)