Some Lives Don't Matter

Social, economic and environmental issues in our ever-changing world.
Terris
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Re: Some Lives Don't Matter

Post by Terris »

I served with many FN soldiers and they are my brothers in arms.

I've also been supporting efforts to have Tommy Prince's likeness put on the new $5 bill.

It's hard to get real social justice when one band wagon cart wheel hogs all the grease...

https://thepoliticalinsider.com/obama-statue-slaves/
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oldtrucker
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Re: Some Lives Don't Matter

Post by oldtrucker »

Salistala wrote: They voluntarily served their country and were thrown in the ditch for their service.


Yup. I'm white and the great ,perfect and wonderful country of Canada threw some family members and myself into the ditch for our honest efforts....no details on here. Not bitter at all.
If you are FN ...(I think you mentioned that)...I think you need your own country, then you will be free of the white mans greed and corruption.
Some may view my politically incorrect opinions as harsh and may be offended by them. Some think political correctness will be our undoing. Zero cuckery. You and 917 others hate this post.
rustled
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Re: Some Lives Don't Matter

Post by rustled »

Salistala wrote:To make a long story short, we weren't considered people and therefore not eligible for the appreciation of a grateful nation.

In the WWI, First Nations were not eligible for conscription because we weren't even considered citizens and not "of pure European descent". 4,000, or 1 in 3 able bodied FN men, enlisted anyway. When they returned they found they weren't eligible for benefits under the War Veterans Allowance Act, and many were even disenfranchised as Status Indians because the Indian Act specified that Indians absent from the reserve for four years were no longer Indians. They voluntarily served their country and were thrown in the ditch for their service.

In WWII FN were eligible for conscription and a further 3,000 enlisted voluntarily, we didn't even become citizens until 1960 but we fought for Canadian freedoms anyway. And again were ineligible for benefits on our return.

If Crankster wishes to complain about how his ancestors' contributions to Canadian freedoms are minimized or dismissed, he can join the back of the line as there are many others with justifiable grievances.


I was interested in the bolded statement, and looked into it. As always, the full truth is more complex:
In August 1917, the Military Service Act instituted conscription, mandatory military service for all British subjects of age to serve. The Act made no exemption for Treaty Indians, who had expected to be exempt because they did not have the rights of citizenship that obligated Canadian citizens to serve. Some First Nations argued that promises made during treaty negotiations excused them from conscription in foreign wars. Conscription was an extremely contentious issue and the Department of Indian Affairs received letters from First Nations demanding an exemption for status Indians. Many non-Aboriginal people publicly supported the exemption of status Indians from conscription.

The sustained objection of First Nations people proved successful and on January 17, 1918, an Order-in Council (PC 111) was passed that officially exempted status Indians from combatant duties. Status Indians could still be called to perform non-combat roles in Canada, but the legislation made it easier for them to claim deferrals for industrial or agricultural work. The question of Inuit or Métis exemptions from conscription or exemption never arose. Though First Nations were eventually exempt from conscription, the episode bred distrust among Aboriginal people towards the government and may have led to somewhat lower Aboriginal enlistment rates in the Second World War. https://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/14141 ... 4152548341

If you get your history from another source, you'll read quite a different story:
At the time of the First World War, First Nations were exempt from conscription because they were not considered “citizens” of Canada and did not have the right to vote. To serve in the Canadian Air Force or Canadian Navy, you had to be “of pure European descent”; this restriction was rescinded in 1940 for the Air Force and 1943 for the Navy.

Being exempt from conscription did not dissuade First Nations from wanting to fight in the First World War. It is estimated that 4,000, or one in three able bodied First Nations men, volunteered to fight; of that number, approximately 300 died. By 1942, compulsory overseas service was implemented and in 1943, the government declared, that as British subjects, all able Native men of military age, (Inuit People remained exempt from conscription) could be called up for training and service. Many Bands protested with marches and petitions to Ottawa. The issue was raised several times in the House of Commons and in 1944, the decision was made by the war cabinet committee to exempt Aboriginal People who had been assured, during treaty negotiations, that they would not be involved in British battles.
https://www.ictinc.ca/blog/aboriginal-veterans

From a third:
In both wars, when conscription was enacted it applied to Status Indians, despite their ineligibility to vote and their status as wards of the state. First Nations leaders across the country protested the application of the Military Service Act of 1917 to their people. The government responded in early 1918 by exempting Status Indians from overseas combative service. In WWII, Status Indians were deemed liable for conscription for home defence from 1940-45, despite nationwide protest and passive resistance amongst Indigenous communities. When Ottawa sent conscripts overseas in late 1944-45, only a few First Nations who, during treaty negotiations, were explicitly promised that the “Queen … would not ask her Indian children to fight for her unless they wished,” were exempted.
https://opentextbc.ca/postconfederation ... orld-wars/

Only one of the three sources ignores the role First Nations people played in ensuring they were exempt from conscription.

All agree on this:
After both wars, Status Indian veterans faced unequal access to benefits and programs provided to help veterans re-establish themselves in civilian life.


For those interested in the topic of First Nations' contributions to WWII as code talkers, gunners, officers, and rangers, Legion Magazine ran an interesting piece, Indigenous War Heroes, in their Jan/Feb 2020 issue. It covers some of the disparity in how these veterans were treated on their return home.

Also an interesting piece about the thousands of schoolchildren brought to Canada during the war. Do the lives of children matter to those who order blitzes and bombings?
Salistala
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Re: Some Lives Don't Matter

Post by Salistala »

The point I was making had only a little to do with the conscription issue. More to the point was the treatment First Nations soldiers experienced after returning to Canada after having served to protect the British Crown's interests.

This was in response to Crankster implying that since his white ancestors fought for our freedoms he shouldn't have to endure non-white people eroding his white privilege.

But your links to the Legion Magazine perfectly summarized both the service First Nations contributed to the war effort and the treatment they received on their return.

https://legionmagazine.com/en/2019/11/i ... ar-heroes/
https://legionmagazine.com/en/2020/01/i ... world-war/

And for that I thank you
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the truth
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Re: Some Lives Don't Matter

Post by the truth »

so just i got this right, all of everyone's problems on this planet are because of the white man, and what they did like 300 years ago , what a bunch of useless whiners , get a job and go to work,
"The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell
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Ka-El
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Re: Some Lives Don't Matter

Post by Ka-El »

Yup, that’s the argument all right. All of everyone's problems on this planet are because of the white man,
and what they did like 300 years ago. Glad you could participate. :smt045
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Salistala
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Re: Some Lives Don't Matter

Post by Salistala »

the truth wrote:...like 300 years ago ...


No, not 300 years ago.
Salistala
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Re: Some Lives Don't Matter

Post by Salistala »

Where do you sign up for a participant ribbon? I want a blue one.
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the truth
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Re: Some Lives Don't Matter

Post by the truth »

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-teacher-suspe ... -1.5004265 why is this not a racist hate crime and why is he still a teacher
"The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell
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MAPearce
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Re: Some Lives Don't Matter

Post by MAPearce »

If you are FN ...(I think you mentioned that)...I think you need your own country, then you will be free of the white mans greed and corruption.


Yes , yes .. So you can deal with the greed and corruption of your own people ...

We ALL know it happens .
I payed attention in High school....But I didn't need too .
LANDM
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Re: Some Lives Don't Matter

Post by LANDM »

the truth wrote:https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-teacher-suspended-for-cuffing-2-students-during-class-1.5004265 why is this not a racist hate crime and why is he still a teacher

Two totally unrelated questions.
The first one you will never understand.
The 2nd, I don’t know. Doesn’t make sense to me either.
Last edited by LANDM on Jun 29th, 2020, 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rustled
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Re: Some Lives Don't Matter

Post by rustled »

Salistala wrote:The point I was making had only a little to do with the conscription issue. More to the point was the treatment First Nations soldiers experienced after returning to Canada after having served to protect the British Crown's interests.

This was in response to Crankster implying that since his white ancestors fought for our freedoms he shouldn't have to endure non-white people eroding his white privilege.

But your links to the Legion Magazine perfectly summarized both the service First Nations contributed to the war effort and the treatment they received on their return.

https://legionmagazine.com/en/2019/11/i ... ar-heroes/
https://legionmagazine.com/en/2020/01/i ... world-war/

And for that I thank you

You're welcome. I didn't realize they were available online - thanks very much for providing these links. (Our copy of the first November issue had been passed along before I got to read it.)

I did feel it was interesting to see the difference in the way the topic of conscription was presented on the three different sites. I think I'd be a little careful of not double-checking the content of the second one. The first had a lot of source material. While I don't suppose it's possible to de-politicize history, some history has become highly politicized of late. (Even Legion Magazine has been criticized for this.)

I don't think anyone's ok with the way First Nations veterans were treated on their return.
rustled
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Re: Some Lives Don't Matter

Post by rustled »

Terris wrote:I served with many FN soldiers and they are my brothers in arms.

I've also been supporting efforts to have Tommy Prince's likeness put on the new $5 bill.

Looks like your efforts may prove successful. :up:

I wanted Chief Dan George for the $5, but when Terry Fox seemed to be taking it I figured maybe Chief Dan George for the $20.
bigtimeoperations
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Re: Some Lives Don't Matter

Post by bigtimeoperations »

Pedo lives dont matter.
Kelowna is the capital of Alberta
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crankster
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Re: Some Lives Don't Matter

Post by crankster »

All the white folks who died for freedom and democracy don't matter. All the rest, just stupidity on our part. Didn't have to die, silly beggars we are. Make sure the next homeless white vet you see to tell him or her that what they did and were they are is their own fault. Should not stick your nose in another nation's affairs.
Canada and her democracy were never ours to defend. How greedy of us to assume it was.
Trudeau is right to divide the country. There is Eastern Kanada. Then there is FN Territory. There is no Canada anymore.
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