Disability and welfare is the downfall of Canada.

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rustled
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Re: Disability and welfare is the downfall of Canada.

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GordonH wrote:
GordonH wrote: BC disability payments are shamefully low, impo no one can be independent on the amount given. Many with disabilities are just unable to work, don’t get me wrong many can and do a great job.
rustled wrote: My sibling (I call her Jane here) was able to live quite decently on the amount given - bear in mind that the income amount is not the only amount the governments provide. Eventually, Jane found appropriate work with an understanding employer and is remarkably independent. While I agree not every disabled person can do what Jane does, she was doing alright without the employment. She prefers to be employed and contribute, and over the past decade or so the BC government has removed the impediments to that.
BC disability for single person is still under $1,200 a month, rent in Kelowna for 1 bedroom is more then that.
We're in Penticton, where that's the going rate for many apartments but not all. BC Housing helps Jane with her rent, just as the SAFER program helps my elderly parent.

As a PWD Jane was eligible for ministry help in finding suitable housing, and since then she has been eligible for help paying for it. (Once her income from employer was part of the calculation, her rent assistance was reduced but not eliminated. This is regularly checked and adjusted in both directions as needed.)
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oldtrucker
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Re: Disability and welfare is the downfall of Canada.

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https://www.vancourier.com/news/challen ... e-1.380807

Info is old but applicable. MLA J Brar tried to live on the rates.
Last edited by oldtrucker on Dec 4th, 2020, 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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GordonH
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Re: Disability and welfare is the downfall of Canada.

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^^^ Welcome news to know, unfortunately many on disability don’t have resources to know were to look for this help.
impo more advocates could really be needed to help with finding all resources available to those with a disability.
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oldtrucker
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Re: Disability and welfare is the downfall of Canada.

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rustled wrote: BC Housing helps Jane with her rent
I thought that only a 'family' or a 'self employed' person can get help from BC housing- single or disability or soc assistance can't get it.
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AlienSoldier
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Re: Disability and welfare is the downfall of Canada.

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Biggest recipents for subsidies in the states : people who work for Walmart
Richest Families : Waltons (owners of Walmart)

As a person who owns multiple businesses and does everything he can to reduce his taxes I can attest that i pay less taxes than most people who make less than me. An example of this is Gilden Wear who makes hundreds of millions in profits, but got a tax return. Funny how the system works eh? lol

Also, hardwork does not equal money made. That is the biggest lie of capitalism, some luck a bit of money to begin with, support and wits are required.

I didnt come from a rich family, but got somewhat lucky and had some brains to make it to where I am. I have no problem in helping people and paying a bit more so that my fellow canadians can be a bit more comfortable and have a chance at moving up the wealth ladder. If you want to see countries with poor safety nets, look at India, China, some Carribbean and Latin countries. That is not the world I want to live in.
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Re: Disability and welfare is the downfall of Canada.

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One thing I forgot to mention in my story about the realities of minimum wage and welfare payments. When I spoke about "affording rent". The house I lived in was a 2.5 bedroom place. (.5 because one was a small den room with the laundry machine). We had 4 people living in this house and I slept on a couch.

This is the reality of rent/housing prices in BC compared with minimum wage. At the time many people on the forums would say things like "move out of kelowna then". But seeing my story, what money and resources do you believe I had to move out of kelowna? With the instability of income, would you have suggested taking loans and going further into debt without any guarantee to pay things off?
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Re: Disability and welfare is the downfall of Canada.

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oldtrucker wrote:
rustled wrote: BC Housing helps Jane with her rent
I thought that only a 'family' or a 'self employed' person can get help from BC housing- single or disability or soc assistance can't get it.
Jane is single, has PWD designation for permanent cognitive impairment, and within days of her eligibility for PWD being established we were contacted by the ministry to set her up with BC Housing.

Here in Penticton, Penticton & District Society for Community Living (PDSCL) is the go-to organization for help with BC Housing, and the other agencies and societies in town would refer folk to them. It's likely the same in your community.
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Re: Disability and welfare is the downfall of Canada.

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oldtrucker wrote:https://www.vancourier.com/news/challen ... e-1.380807

Info is old but applicable. MLA J Brar tried to live on the rates.
Yes, I remember this. Several improvements since then. (Still room for improvement, too.)
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Re: Disability and welfare is the downfall of Canada.

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GordonH wrote:^^^ Welcome news to know, unfortunately many on disability don’t have resources to know were to look for this help.
impo more advocates could really be needed to help with finding all resources available to those with a disability.
Bingo. A caseworker could help them. Maybe that's why there are no case workers-so govt saves money by not having info and help available?
System is complicated. A UBI would simplify so much.
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Re: Disability and welfare is the downfall of Canada.

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oldtrucker wrote:
GordonH wrote:^^^ Welcome news to know, unfortunately many on disability don’t have resources to know were to look for this help.
impo more advocates could really be needed to help with finding all resources available to those with a disability.
Bingo. A caseworker could help them. Maybe that's why there are no case workers-so govt saves money by not having info and help available?
Having designated caseworkers at the ministry was no silver bullet. While it was in place, it was an impediment to have to wait to speak to our designated caseworker.

Once in the PWD system, there are many local agencies through which workers are provided. Jane has had a worker assigned through one of these local government-funded societies for many years. People have left the position for various reasons and been replaced, but by and large it's the same worker for months (and often years) at a time.
oldtrucker wrote:System is complicated. A UBI would simplify so much.
While it is complicated, and there is room for improvement, a UBI could be our undoing.

There will be consequences if we overload the "social contract" commitments our economy must sustain. Our current system is certainly not perfect, but it is not anywhere near as imperfect as some would have us believe.
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Re: Disability and welfare is the downfall of Canada.

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^^^ I’m not talking about a ministry caseworker, I am talking about a advocate who’s interested is strictly for PWD.

This could be a caring Family member who is willing to go through some of stupid red tape, that PWD looks at and freezes. Then tragedy ends up self medicating on the streets.
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rustled
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Re: Disability and welfare is the downfall of Canada.

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GordonH wrote:^^^ I’m not talking about a ministry caseworker, I am talking about a advocate who’s interested is strictly for PWD.

This could be a caring Family member who is willing to go through some of stupid red tape, that PWD looks at and freezes. Then tragedy ends up self medicating on the streets.
As I pointed out, these are available through several agencies. (Some of the stupid red tape is enough to make me freeze, and dealing with it makes me want to self medicate!)

Jane has ongoing consistent regular support from a government funded service organization set up to provide services for PWD clients. Their employees are often better able to help her than I am (they deal with the ministry etc. on behalf of many clients and know what's new, what's changed, the best approach etc.) and they will still be there for Jane if something happens to me.
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Ka-El
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Re: Disability and welfare is the downfall of Canada.

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oldtrucker wrote: System is complicated. A UBI would simplify so much.
The more I look into and study the idea the more I am inclined to agree with you.
Here is a very interesting article I found written on the topic ...
Universal Basic Income (UBI) – Pros, Cons & some Unexpected Benefits

A Universal Basic Income (UBI) is a system that would see an unconditional cash sum handed out by the government to every citizen on a periodic basis.

Proponents of UBI claim that by guaranteeing a basic living income to every individual, UBI will eradicate poverty and improve economic equality and societal stability.

Detractors of UBI bemoan the system with two main arguments:
1. The only way to afford such a program is to raise taxes on working individuals and corporations. It is robbing the productive class to pay the unproductive, or worse, those who simply do not care to produce anything.
2. Doling out free money will incentivize people to not work.

Allow me to address these two concerns.

More …

http://reasonedutopia.com/for-against-u ... ncome/?i=1
I hope people do take a look at the entire article and not just the summary I've posted below. The idea of a UBI is as much futurist as it is leftist, and I’m certain it is just coincidence that many futurist ideas are more consistent with left-wing ideology.

It’s only a matter of time now.
Summary

In summary, I support the introduction of UBI. Savings from discontinued social programs, reduced health expenses, trimmed law enforcement and UBI’s ability to incentivize new entrepreneurs (and the additional tax revenues they will generate) will easily fund the program. Most importantly, UBI will eliminate the insecurity and stress of fighting for basic survival needs. Satisfying human needs and hence eliminating fear of survival and insecurity will result in freeing up the human mind in an explosion of creativity that will deliver great benefits to society – both psychological and economical. Benefits will not be confined to just the poverty stricken. UBI’s psychological solace will be transmitted through even the higher echelons of society. To be effective, UBI should not be introduced on a “limited trial” basis but implemented unconditionally and in perpetuity for all citizens.

Today’s technology makes it possible to unconditionally provide basic needs (and then some) to every human, at least in the developed economies. Doing so would eliminate survival insecurity and leave the population free to discover and pursue their passion, seek enlightenment and lead productive lives. Instead, developed societies have created a labyrinth of programs that impose ridiculous eligibility conditions in order to avail one’s self of basic needs. UBI would end this bureaucracy.

Try to examine UBI objectively and independently – on your own. Stop aligning yourself with the left or the right. Stop labeling yourself a capitalist, a socialism or a communist. And stop presupposing UBI recipients as free loaders – trust humanity just a little. Ask yourself what you would do with your UBI. Would you stop working and spend the rest of your life watching television? No? Then why would everyone else?
ETA:
Universal Basic Income is a concept where everyone receives a check from their government every month to pay for any necessities one may need. Although the thought of Universal Basic Income (UBI) is a radical move for any country, it can be a way to alleviate poverty. Instead of Food Stamp and Welfare programs, citizens would receive one lump sum check regardless of status. According to the Huffington Post “it could eliminate poverty to a great extent and set the stage for a healthier and more productive society.”

Switzerland citizens have been fighting for this movement and have sparked a public referendum to push the movement forward. The country has seen the possible benefits of what a UBI can accomplish. Families can have food security, income inequality would decrease, and if countries adopt the idea with success may influence other countries to do the same. In the 1970’s Canada experimented with the implementation of a UBI, and according to the New York Times “poverty disappeared…High-school completion rates went up; hospitalization rates went down.

https://borgenproject.org/benefits-of-u ... technology.
So, to be clear, a population sample was taken from Manitoba to be included in a larger study.
The Basic Income Guarantee Experiments of the 1970s: a quick summary of results

https://basicincome.org/news/2017/12/ba ... y-results/
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Re: Disability and welfare is the downfall of Canada.

Post by mysideofthings »

As someone who is actually on disability for mental health conditions, as much as I dislike having to rely on assistance, I am grateful for it. It's not easy to live on, and the stigma and ignorance of others towards those who are on it is just disgusting.

In the past, and when the rate was lower, it most definitely was harder for me when it was my sole income as I was so unwell that I couldn't work and struggled to even leave the house for necessary appointments. I had to live in situations that weren't always good for my mental health because of my income level, but I had no choice. It only made my struggles worse. Now, MANY years later, being able to work (barely even part time) has helped me supplement my disability, and I'm in a much better place mentally and financially.

Trying to find subsidized housing was (and to my knowledge still is) difficult. There once were wait lists for YEARS to get into any. I wouldn't be surprised if it's still the same now. They also have different criteria for each building a person can apply to, 18+ only, single, single parent or families with children under 18, etc.

There are still restrictions from being on PWD. It has gotten a bit better, but there was a time you weren't able to get a 'gift' of money (even $20 for a birthday or christmas) without them deducting it (if you were honest and declared it) or not being allowed to have over a certain amount in your bank account (I think you still aren't allowed more than $2000), so if you can't work, you really are reliant on just what they give you. in BC, the rate for a single person now is $1183.42, if you don't get any extra supplements; $375 of that is 'shelter' support. In other provinces, the rate varies. In some, it's not even $1000.

There used to be an advocate program in the okanagan who helped people who were on disability, but the only office I know of based out of Kelowna closed years ago. Now you have to call a place in Vancouver.

As far as getting disability, it's not so simple. People have to go to a provider to help them fill out a form and be able to provide documentation to support that, if asked. I feel like income assistance aka welfare probably does not have as stringent criteria and might be easier to get compared to disability and definitely shouldn't be lumped into the same category. They are two completely different things. A disability actually has to be proven.
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Re: Disability and welfare is the downfall of Canada.

Post by rustled »

mysideofthings wrote:As someone who is actually on disability for mental health conditions, as much as I dislike having to rely on assistance, I am grateful for it. It's not easy to live on, and the stigma and ignorance of others towards those who are on it is just disgusting.

In the past, and when the rate was lower, it most definitely was harder for me when it was my sole income as I was so unwell that I couldn't work and struggled to even leave the house for necessary appointments. I had to live in situations that weren't always good for my mental health because of my income level, but I had no choice. It only made my struggles worse. Now, MANY years later, being able to work (barely even part time) has helped me supplement my disability, and I'm in a much better place mentally and financially.
My sibling with permanent cognitive impairment (I call her Jane here) is fortunate to have found suitable work - and fortunate that the province has since dealt with the restrictions around working while on PWD. Like you, she relies on the safety net to be there when she needs it and does what she can to help herself, and the old restrictions made it really difficult for people who were able to contribute by working. I am eternally grateful to her employer for taking a chance on her and helping her help herself, and wish there was a way to help other employers who would like to do the same.
mysideofthings wrote:Trying to find subsidized housing was (and to my knowledge still is) difficult. There once were wait lists for YEARS to get into any. I wouldn't be surprised if it's still the same now. They also have different criteria for each building a person can apply to, 18+ only, single, single parent or families with children under 18, etc.
Upon being re-designated (long story, too personal to share), Jane was immediately eligible for a housing allowance in addition to her monthly benefit and she was offered more appropriate accommodation in an apartment within a few months of her eligibility.
mysideofthings wrote:There are still restrictions from being on PWD. It has gotten a bit better, but there was a time you weren't able to get a 'gift' of money (even $20 for a birthday or christmas) without them deducting it (if you were honest and declared it) or not being allowed to have over a certain amount in your bank account (I think you still aren't allowed more than $2000),
That was awful, wasn't it? The assets limit is now $100,000 for single, double that for a family with a PWD. One of the many sensible improvements the government started making a while back, thank goodness. https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/gove ... mits-table
mysideofthings wrote: so if you can't work, you really are reliant on just what they give you. in BC, the rate for a single person now is $1183.42, if you don't get any extra supplements; $375 of that is 'shelter' support. In other provinces, the rate varies. In some, it's not even $1000.
It has been some time since Jane was unable to work, but it is my understanding her assistance with rent through BC Housing was in addition to her monthly benefit. I could be wrong about that. I'll see if I have enough of her old paperwork on file to find out.
mysideofthings wrote:There used to be an advocate program in the okanagan who helped people who were on disability, but the only office I know of based out of Kelowna closed years ago. Now you have to call a place in Vancouver.
There are agencies here in Penticton for people with cognitive disabilities. It may well be that people with other forms of disability are not eligible for these agencies - if so, that's a need to be addressed.
mysideofthings wrote:As far as getting disability, it's not so simple. People have to go to a provider to help them fill out a form and be able to provide documentation to support that, if asked. I feel like income assistance aka welfare probably does not have as stringent criteria and might be easier to get compared to disability and definitely shouldn't be lumped into the same category. They are two completely different things. A disability actually has to be proved.
Yes, it is complicated. I once heard an MLA on the radio tell the interviewer how easy it is - hah. And that was before we had a shortage of family physicians in BC. Our experience with Jane showed there is a definite need for support during the designation process. I found out afterward that our local women's centre could have helped, and that they helped men who need assistance with navigating the system as well. A knowledgeable agency at one of the many service providers - to which all the other service providers, our MLAs and MPs could point those of us needing help - should be established in every community of any size in Canada.

I can't speak to whether or not it's "easier" to prove eligibility for income assistance (welfare) but it is likely it's more difficult to establish PWD that may be because of all the additional supports provided by provincial and federal government for PWD.

I hope you are aware of the RDSP programs - https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency ... -rdsp.html https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/fami ... vings-plan.

Best of luck to you, mysideofthings.

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