Criminal Records checks/identity theft/credit card fraud

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my5cents
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Re: What ?? !! Private Criminal Records checks ??

Post by my5cents »

BC Landlord wrote:The way it works with the TVS for credit checks, I do need to have an applicant's signed letter of consent (electronic or paper). I do not need to show it to them when ordering a search, but If I get audited (they actually do it periodically), I would be in a serious trouble without it.
Let's say someone with access to your personal information, makes an on line application for credit. So to not alert you, they use a different "new" home address and "new" phone number. The credit granter, is legit, but all they have is contact by the person via the internet, no copies of documents, just fill in the blank on electronic forms.

On the strength of the on line application they conduct credit checks on you with Equifax and Trans Union.

They grant this unknown person credit in your name. The card is run up to the max and never a payment. The company phones and sends "you" demands, of course to the "new" address and "new" phone number. Never hearing from "you". They report to Equifax and TransUnion the default in payments. All that bad info, is now registered to you.

The credit granter (credit card company) gives up trying to find you and assigns the bad debt to a debt collector. The debt collectors also check you credit info with Equifax and TransUnion.

So now your credit record with both agencies, show the application for credit (applications affect your credit), they show a bad debt on the credit card (which obviously affects your credit), there are inquiries on your account from numerous debt collectors (for all to see, who check your credit, which affects your credit).

You discover the fraud, you advise Equifax and TransUnion. You tell them that the "new" address and phone number are fake, after you've supplied them with documentary proof (unlike the electronic proof they accepted from the credit card company) they then show your correct address and phone number as you new information, but the fake address and phone number remain. Also the credit checks by the credit card company and the enquiries by the collection agencies remain.

None of this includes the hell you go through with the credit card company, who negligently, recklessly, granted credit to someone placing an on line credit application in your name.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"
BC Landlord
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Re: What ?? !! Private Criminal Records checks ??

Post by BC Landlord »

my5cents wrote:Let's say someone with access to your personal information, makes an on line application for credit. So to not alert you, they use a different "new" home address and "new" phone number. The credit granter, is legit, but all they have is contact by the person via the internet, no copies of documents, just fill in the blank on electronic forms.
....
You are hypothesizing. I'm pretty sure that what you described could happen and perhaps, already has, but to discard for that "reason" a very effective and widely used tool, pretty much every serious transaction depends upon, is not rational.
my5cents
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Re: What ?? !! Private Criminal Records checks ??

Post by my5cents »

BC Landlord wrote:You are hypothesizing. I'm pretty sure that what you described could happen and perhaps, already has, but to discard for that "reason" a very effective and widely used tool, pretty much every serious transaction depends upon, is not rational.
Yes, you wouldn't want to inconvenience someone making a buck by protecting innocent people.

OK sarcasm switch off...

If you are allowed to present in inquiry there perhaps should be a short list of guarantees.

Was this person physically present ?
What documentation was presented by the subject ?
What indications were there that this was the person named on the documentation ?
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"
BC Landlord
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Re: What ?? !! Private Criminal Records checks ??

Post by BC Landlord »

my5cents wrote:If you are allowed to present in inquiry there perhaps should be a short list of guarantees.
And I understand people's, including your concerns. There is always a risk of someone taking advantage of pretty much anything, however that risk is miniscule compared to its benefits. For example, every time you sit in a vehicle, there is a risk of getting killed, but we don't stop all traffic. It's a calculated risk.
my5cents
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Re: What ?? !! Private Criminal Records checks ??

Post by my5cents »

BC Landlord wrote:
my5cents wrote:If you are allowed to present in inquiry there perhaps should be a short list of guarantees.
And I understand people's, including your concerns. There is always a risk of someone taking advantage of pretty much anything, however that risk is miniscule compared to its benefits. For example, every time you sit in a vehicle, there is a risk of getting killed, but we don't stop all traffic. It's a calculated risk.
Well in the case I was illustrating, it involved Capital One, I can only imagine how many thousands of applications they accepted on line.

You've got the keeper of the information, in this case the credit bureaus, not insuring the queries AND the resulting information they are placing on the subject's file were appropriately screened.

Interesting situation. Basically the attituded is "We have accepted information from one of our paying customers which in turn generated your private information being queried in our systems and subsequently released to that customer. We then modified your personal information in our system on the strength of this accepted information. You are saying it wasn't you. Prove it."
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"
TylerM4
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Re: What ?? !! Private Criminal Records checks ??

Post by TylerM4 »

My5 is right. Happened to me and let me tell you - it was FAR more difficult to get the fraudulent information removed from my credit info than it was for the fraudster to have it changed. In my case it was Royal Bank - had a fraud alert on my account even. The loans agent admitted to seeing it and seeing that the address, telephone number, etc on the application were different but because the alert was going to expire in a year decided it was old and to issue the credit and change all of the information. Greed motivates them.

I truly believe that we need credit agencies/services, but they do need to be overhauled. The current system is super easy to fool and it's the citizen who pays the price when they are. One of the few areas I think the government should step in and manage this data with only a motivation of protecting citizens vs the current system which prioritizes profit over everything else.
BC Landlord
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Re: What ?? !! Private Criminal Records checks ??

Post by BC Landlord »

my5cents wrote:Interesting situation. Basically the attituded is "We have accepted information from one of our paying customers which in turn generated your private information being queried in our systems and subsequently released to that customer. We then modified your personal information in our system on the strength of this accepted information. You are saying it wasn't you. Prove it."
What this is telling me is that someone authorized has made an inquiry into your credit file, and such inquiry has been saved to the file (i.e. the "modification").
This is all legitimate. It should also be prudent for every person to check his credit file on regular basis and verify what's in there is true, especially the inquiries history. It's not that hard.

However, they don't send out messages like this. You made it up, especially the last part.
my5cents
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Re: What ?? !! Private Criminal Records checks ??

Post by my5cents »

TylerM4 wrote:My5 is right. Happened to me and let me tell you - it was FAR more difficult to get the fraudulent information removed from my credit info than it was for the fraudster to have it changed. In my case it was Royal Bank - had a fraud alert on my account even. The loans agent admitted to seeing it and seeing that the address, telephone number, etc on the application were different but because the alert was going to expire in a year decided it was old and to issue the credit and change all of the information. Greed motivates them.

I truly believe that we need credit agencies/services, but they do need to be overhauled. The current system is super easy to fool and it's the citizen who pays the price when they are. One of the few areas I think the government should step in and manage this data with only a motivation of protecting citizens vs the current system which prioritizes profit over everything else.
You're absolutely correct Tyler.

I really got a "kick" (after coming down from the ceiling) out of the demands, in my case from the credit card company.

"you'll have to report this to the RCMP and if they verify that this was a fraud, we'll stop all our actions" (I had uncovered the personation, and called the credit card company [two years after this had happened]. They, don't forget had the wrong address and wrong phone number.

Let's examine who played what role here.

Who was defrauded ? The credit company.
Who had the evidence of when and how the credit was given ? The credit card company.
Who knew what monies were obtained, including locations of use of the card etc. The credit card company.

What was my involvement ? My name was used.

So, how am I going to report this to the police ?

For starters which jurisdiction did the fraud take place ? Where I live ? Where the credit card company is located ?

Me : "Hi I'd like to report a fraud and an impersonation"
Police : "Oh when did this happen ?"
Me : "I don't know about two years ago."
Police : "What happened ?"
Me : "Someone obtained a credit card in my name."
Police : "How was the card applied for ?"
Me : "I don't know."
Police : "Who accepted the application ?"
Me : "I don't know."
Police : "Who approved the credit ?"
Me : "I don't know."
Police : "How much was obtained ?"
Me : "I don't know."
Police : "Was the card used to buy merchandise ?"
Me : "I don't know."
Police : "Why don't you know anything about this ?"
Me : "I asked the credit card company for details, expecting that you'd need that information, but they told me that since I'm saying it wasn't me who applied for the card and got the credit, I wasn't allowed to know any of the information."
Police : "Well, why are you calling us, since the credit card company is the victim ?"
Me : "Because they told me if I didn't report this to the police, they would continue to chase me for the money owed."
Police : "Has the credit card company reported this to the police ?"
Me : "No, they said that was up to me."
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"
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oldtrucker
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Re: What ?? !! Private Criminal Records checks ??

Post by oldtrucker »

Total leaderless system set up to fail -intentionally. 'Leadership' knows about what kind of a failure/joke it is. Have they fixed it? No? Then it's intentional.
Some may view my politically incorrect opinions as harsh and may be offended by them. Some think political correctness will be our undoing. Zero cuckery. You and 917 others hate this post.
TylerM4
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Re: What ?? !! Private Criminal Records checks ??

Post by TylerM4 »

BC Landlord wrote:
What this is telling me is that someone authorized has made an inquiry into your credit file, and such inquiry has been saved to the file (i.e. the "modification").
This is all legitimate. It should also be prudent for every person to check his credit file on regular basis and verify what's in there is true, especially the inquiries history. It's not that hard.

However, they don't send out messages like this. You made it up, especially the last part.
How did you interpret that as a quote vs paraphrasing? To me it's very clear he was paraphrasing.

I'm sorry you're having a hard time believing it. What he has shared with you is the truth, and matches my own experience. You've never been a victim of identify theft/credit fraud have you? Speak to those who have and they'll all share similar stories.

Here's a good way to understand it: Transunion and Equifax will not update your credit information with info you provide them. If you call them up, prove your identity, and ask them to update the address they have for you the answer is "No". If you ask them "How the hell am I supposed to get this updated then" they'll tell you to apply for new credit using the new address. You can't even call up an existing creditor and ask them to update your address - that updated info isn't sent to credit bureaus. You are not a paying customer, the lenders are. To the point where they'll even tell you "We're not responsible for ensuring the data is accurate. We just house the data. Creditors are responsible"

Don't believe me? Try it! You'll soon understand how broken the system is and why credit fraud is such a common thing. I mean - it's simple enough that junkies are doing it.
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ItsBigDaddy
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Re: What ?? !! Private Criminal Records checks ??

Post by ItsBigDaddy »

mexi cali wrote:With consent, I can run a CRC on anyone. Nothing new here.

ETA: and a credit check.

Big man on campus! [icon_lol2.gif]
my5cents
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Re: What ?? !! Private Criminal Records checks ??

Post by my5cents »

BC Landlord wrote:What this is telling me is that someone authorized has made an inquiry into your credit file, and such inquiry has been saved to the file (i.e. the "modification").
This is all legitimate. It should also be prudent for every person to check his credit file on regular basis and verify what's in there is true, especially the inquiries history. It's not that hard.

However, they don't send out messages like this. You made it up, especially the last part.
They don't send out what ?

I conducted a check of my credit. I received the report. Like you said : "It should also be prudent for every person to check his credit file on regular basis and verify what's in there is true". There were 5 credit applications to 5 credit card companies. Two issued credit cards.

Both cards were run up to max, no payments. My address and phone number had been changed a couple of times, including out of province.

I sent in the "Dispute" as required by Equifax and TransUnion. I received back "we have contacted the creditors and they maintain the credit was obtained by you, if you have any further concerns contact them directly".

In other words they were saying in reality : You are saying this credit wasn't obtained by you then prove it.

I'm sure you realize that proving a negative is much harder than proving a positive. That's why in law, we are innocent until proven guilty. In credit "law", it's apparently, "we do shoddy, incomplete checks as to who we give credit to and then when wrong it's up to the victim of the impersonation to prove they weren't who we dealt with".

The fact that my credit record, up to the point of the personation, was 100% good. All credit dealings with one bank, never any late payments, gold plated credit. No (genuine) credit applications for decades. So all of a sudden, I apply for 5 cards and run them up ? I contact them, then don't find me. All fell on deaf ears.

As for "someone authorized has made an inquiry into your credit file"... Anyone checking my credit needs MY authorization. They DID NOT get my authorization. The credit card companies DIDN'T put in place checks and balances that in any way insured they were dealing with me. They were negligent in not creating a system to insured they were dealing with me.

The credit bureaus didn't have any checks and balances to insure that their customers, the credit card companies, had obtained authorization in a reliable way.

Since the enquiries and information about the credit applications, credit granting, the unpaid bills the new address, new phone numbers didn't apply to me, in reality. ALL that information should have been removed from my account. Some is still there over ten years later.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"
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Re: What ?? !! Private Criminal Records checks ??

Post by BC Landlord »

TylerM4 wrote:I'm sorry you're having a hard time believing it. What he has shared with you is the truth, and matches my own experience. You've never been a victim of identify theft/fraud have you? Speak to those who have and they'll all share similar stories like I shared mine.
I am sorry to hear about the OP's or anyone else's bad experience with identity theft, but in this case, and according to what was presented here (sketchy, at best), I am still having a hard time believing in the whole story. Apparently, someone stole/misused his/her credit card, and he/she found out about it two years later. I mean, on every credit card, you get monthly statements, have online access nowadays to your account, ... how could any fraudulent activity possibly go unnoticed, and for no less than two years? If reported to them (Visa, Master ...) in timely fashion, they have their own fraud departments, and would investigate any reported issue on their customer's behalf, and reimburse them if a fraudulent transaction was found.
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oldtrucker
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Re: What ?? !! Private Criminal Records checks ??

Post by oldtrucker »

BC Landlord wrote:
TylerM4 wrote:I'm sorry you're having a hard time believing it. What he has shared with you is the truth, and matches my own experience. You've never been a victim of identify theft/fraud have you? Speak to those who have and they'll all share similar stories like I shared mine.
I am sorry to hear about the OP's or anyone else's bad experience with identity theft, but in this case, and according to what was presented here (sketchy, at best), I am still having a hard time believing in the whole story. Apparently, someone stole/misused his/her credit card, and he/she found out about it two years later. I mean, on every credit card, you get monthly statements, have online access nowadays to your account, ... how could any fraudulent activity possibly go unnoticed, and for no less than two years? If reported to them (Visa, Master ...) in timely fashion, they have their own fraud departments, and would investigate any reported issue on their customer's behalf, and reimburse them if a fraud was found.
Just like every other system in this country- it doesn't work. It's a non functional joke just like my5cents and tylerm4 said.
Some may view my politically incorrect opinions as harsh and may be offended by them. Some think political correctness will be our undoing. Zero cuckery. You and 917 others hate this post.
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oldtrucker
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Re: What ?? !! Private Criminal Records checks ??

Post by oldtrucker »

TylerM4 wrote: Transunion and Equifax will not update your credit information with info you provide them. If you call them up, prove your identity, and ask them to update the address they have for you the answer is "No". If you ask them "How the hell am I supposed to get this updated then" they'll tell you to apply for new credit using the new address. You can't even call up an existing creditor and ask them to update your address - that updated info isn't sent to credit bureaus. You are not a paying customer, the lenders are. To the point where they'll even tell you "We're not responsible for ensuring the data is accurate. We just house the data. Creditors are responsible"
The typical pass the buck of responsibility. It's the Canadian way. These credit agencies should be held accountable for every penny lost if they hold so much power over peoples lives .I'm surprised that some multi millionaire hasn't buried them or gov't in legal problems from their incompetence.
Some may view my politically incorrect opinions as harsh and may be offended by them. Some think political correctness will be our undoing. Zero cuckery. You and 917 others hate this post.

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