Record Labour Shortages in Restaurant Industry

[rustled]

I'm certainly not surprised that you would take a stance like that, rest assured he probably wasn't talking to you.

It's interesting to me that you seem to think I need to be told not to take his message personally. What a strange notion.

I'm quite sure he wasn't talking to anyone who is genuinely concerned about the real consequences of the $15 an hour minimum wage in Seattle.

Given that's the topic of this thread, what do you think of the real consequences of the $15 minimum wage he says he "cooked up" for Seattle?

[The Green Barbarian]

*removed*

[Even Steven]

Given that's the topic of this thread, what do you think of the real consequences of the $15 minimum wage he says he "cooked up" for Seattle?

Inflation.

Raising min. wage never helps anybody in the long term.

PS: The example somebody shared where the restaurant doesn't hire enough dishwashers but instead downloads those duties on someone else is also a good example of how raising min. wage actually destroys jobs. Granted, I don't think it's permanent, but it's a known result of raising min. wage.

[fluffy]

Sorry, perhaps I should clarify. Given that neo-liberal policy has received its most ardent support from conservative governments, it's more likely that he would be addressing people who are inclined to see things change, non-conservatives specifically.

Seattle's experience with the hike in minimum wage is a bit of a mixed bag, but the bottom line shows that the good outweighs the bad. A couple of excerpts from an article two years ago in VOX. Bear in mind these are pre-pandemic numbers, and that Mr. Hanauer's talk was in the fall of 2019.

"At the time the Seattle bill was passed, the federal minimum wage had stagnated at $7.25 since 2009, where it still is today. While minimum wage increases are generally popular with voters, they also tend to kick up extreme opposition from business owners, who warn of massive job losses and killing off new businesses. It’s one reason why the minimum wage has stayed so low nationally.

Seattle was a natural place for this progressive policy to pass. It is both a very wealthy city with fairly liberal politics — ranging from socially liberal businesspeople to a democratic socialist on the city council — and a high level of union penetration and a history of disruptive labor activism that goes back to its 1919 general strike. But the bill faced a fair share of opposition. Employers, like restaurant owners, raised the alarm that the new wage would force them to close businesses, raise prices, fire workers, or move their businesses outside of the city limits."

>snip<

"The story for employees is much more varied. The minimum wage for some large employers jumped from $11 to $13 from 2015 to 2016. The economists observed the impact of the hike in 2017 and found it had dramatic effects on the low-wage workforce and employment.

Not all of them were good. They found that the policy “reduced hours worked in low-wage jobs by 6-7 percent, while hourly wages in such jobs increased by 3 percent ... consequently, total payroll for such jobs decreased.” That means the total amount that employers paid to workers was less with the new minimum wage in place than projected payroll if the policy hadn’t gone into effect.

The data, researcher Mark C. Long explained, suggested a “tipping point” between $11 and $13 “when it becomes less tenable to keep work in the city.” (Critics were quick to point out that this likely wasn’t solely due to the minimum wage policy — Seattle’s labor market continued to heat up during that period, reducing the number of low-wage jobs compared to high-wage jobs overall.)

But a year later, the team published another paper that complicated their findings. They looked at the same time period and same wage increase, but this time broke down the actual take-home pay of workers. They found that workers who were already employed at the low end of the wage scale in Seattle “enjoyed significantly more rapid hourly wage growth,” following wage increases in 2015 and 2016.

Those who were already working more hours before the wage increase saw “essentially all of the earnings increases,” while the workers who had fewer hours saw their hours go down, but wages go up enough so that their overall earnings didn’t really change. They theorized that a slowdown in new hiring for low-wage jobs could explain their earlier findings that overall payroll had gone down."

...and in closing...

"What all sides would agree on is that the people advocating for a higher minimum wage — those among the already employed like Caroline Durocher who went on strike six years ago — were right to do so."

[Trixster]

Here's another good example of restaurants being unscrupulous since minimum wage has gone up. To save money this is what their doing. I went for an interview in regards to being a line cook, pay was $16 per hour and it should be higher in my opinion and they know it as well. During the interview they commented that part of my job duties would be working in the dishpit when the line as lulls. I asked them why they didn't have a dishwasher and their reasoning was " why, when the line cooks etc can do it!" ummm if its really busy the dishes, pots,pans, utensils stack up pretty fast so you're expecting a line cook to step away and go bang off dishes for a bit then rush back to the line to resume cooking lol. Just another way of saving a few bucks rather than hiring a dishwasher!

Why don't you buy and operate a restaurant sometime, and then see how the only way to survive right now is for everyone to be pitching in to survive, rather than going for a smoke while the dishes pile up. No restaurants equals no jobs. And I can't help but think that this is where the restaurant industry is heading. At which point you would probably be happy to go wash a few dishes if that's what it takes. This entitlement nonsense is just so silly. Oh noesss!! They asked me to wash some dishes, they are worse than Stalin and Mao combined!!!

What does smoking have to do with this? I dont smoke and you are missing the point here! Its hard to be a cook, especially when it's really busy and now their expecting you to leave your work station and go wash dishes just so the restaurant can save a few bucks on wages lol!

[rustled]

Sorry, perhaps I should clarify. Given that neo-liberal policy has received its most ardent support from conservative governments, it's more likely that he would be addressing people who are inclined to see things change, non-conservatives specifically.

Seattle's experience with the hike in minimum wage is a bit of a mixed bag, but the bottom line shows that the good outweighs the bad. A couple of excerpts from an article two years ago in VOX. Bear in mind these are pre-pandemic numbers, and that Mr. Hanauer's talk was in the fall of 2019.

"At the time the Seattle bill was passed,

SNIP

They theorized that a slowdown in new hiring for low-wage jobs could explain their earlier findings that overall payroll had gone down."

...and in closing...

"What all sides would agree on is that the people advocating for a higher minimum wage — those among the already employed like Caroline Durocher who went on strike six years ago — were right to do so."

Here's the link. https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/ ... 15-dollars We see that the statement you've closed with is the author's opinion, not the economists' - intended to convince those questioning the narrative that "the bottom line shows good has outweighed the bad" when that's not the case. And this is a pattern we see again and again: when faced with evidence that contradicts the narrative - in this case, a narrative he admits he used his vast wealth to create - the people who want to believe the narrative anyway go looking for someone's opinion to reassure them about the narrative.

The consequences of the $15 an hour minimum wage in Seattle were already being questioned by economists before he gave his TED talk. He knew that, and glossed past the research already showing the questionable consequences, apparently hoping everyone listening would do the same.

Going to the Vox article doesn't seem to me to be a real effort to understand the truth of what happened in Seattle - it's about sustaining the narrative of a wealthy person who wants us to support shifting more power to the government he uses his money to influence - he comes right out and says he uses his money to build narratives and pass laws.

Laws like the $15 wage seem like a great idea to those who are willing to ignore the consequences. Those unwilling to ignore the consequences have reservations, and rightly so.

[fluffy]

Feel free to elaborate on the downside of Seattle's minimum wage increase.

[The Green Barbarian]

What does smoking have to do with this? I dont smoke and you are missing the point here! Its hard to be a cook, especially when it's really busy and now their expecting you to leave your work station and go wash dishes just so the restaurant can save a few bucks on wages lol!

If that is the case, and its just about saving money, then yes, it's kind of lame. Don't most places now have those dishwashing machines? They did even back in the day when I was washing dishes during my summer job days and that was a long time ago.

Yes it is hard to be a cook, I will give you that.

[rustled]

Feel free to elaborate on the downside of Seattle's minimum wage increase.

There's no need - I've provided links. Those interested in understanding what we know so far about the consequences, good and bad, will find everything they need.

[the truth]

main reason why rest can not find employees https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/3 ... o-COVID-19

[The Green Barbarian]

There's no need - I've provided links. Those interested in understanding what we know so far about the consequences, good and bad, will find everything they need.

Yes Rustled - those that by now can't grasp just how stupid it was of Seattle to enact those wage laws will just never see, and will just find everything else to blame. Nothing can ever detract from the blind narrative - "minimum wage must always go up!!" with no thought to consequences. Consequences don't exist in their world.

[Trixster]

What does smoking have to do with this? I dont smoke and you are missing the point here! Its hard to be a cook, especially when it's really busy and now their expecting you to leave your work station and go wash dishes just so the restaurant can save a few bucks on wages lol!

If that is the case, and its just about saving money, then yes, it's kind of lame. Don't most places now have those dishwashing machines? They did even back in the day when I was washing dishes during my summer job days and that was a long time ago.

Yes it is hard to be a cook, I will give you that.

Yes they have machines yet they arent gonna scrub the pots and pans and load the dishes, glasses and utensils by themselves!

[JLives]

There's no need - I've provided links. Those interested in understanding what we know so far about the consequences, good and bad, will find everything they need.

Yes Rustled - those that by now can't grasp just how stupid it was of Seattle to enact those wage laws will just never see, and will just find everything else to blame. Nothing can ever detract from the blind narrative - "minimum wage must always go up!!" with no thought to consequences. Consequences don't exist in their world.

This is the same old conservative rhetoric used EVERY time a minimum wage increase is proposed. And every time it's unfounded. You guys need a new shtick.

[foenix]

*removed*

[W105]

Yes Rustled - those that by now can't grasp just how stupid it was of Seattle to enact those wage laws will just never see, and will just find everything else to blame. Nothing can ever detract from the blind narrative - "minimum wage must always go up!!" with no thought to consequences. Consequences don't exist in their world.

This is the same old conservative rhetoric used EVERY time a minimum wage increase is proposed. And every time it's unfounded. You guys need a new shtick.

^^ amen ...you gotta be stupid to not see that EVERYTHING increases in price and NOT because of a min wage increase...back in the day many grocery stores and hospitality industries paid union wages and that never changed the price on anything

it amazes me that some people really believe still that people who WORK for a living in what "they" deem as in low end work, don't deserve to at least make enough to live half decently...and yet it's these "low end" workers that every one of us needs ( remember how much we needed those grocery store employees when this pandemic first started ?? they were right up there with our healthcare workers) and uses every single day to make our life very comfortable..

have some damn respect for people who work for a living in whatever employment that they do because they absolutely play a huge role in our society...