What we can expect in the third millennium

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Sparki55
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Re: What we can expect in the third millennium

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foenix wrote: Aug 27th, 2021, 6:33 pm Ummmm.......because they are in position to take advantage of these kinds of "tax evasion"........and they're still here and not paying high taxes because their money is hidden offshore or other ways.
This is what they are doing:

Making money in Canada like the rest of us. Paying tax on that money like the rest of us. Moving the profits to another country with less tax. Investing the money in other country, paying taxes (if applicable) in other country.

Do you think it should change so Canada can snuff out who owns offshore companies and tax those companies in other countries?

It only makes sense if the business operates in Canada. The revenue made in Canada is then subject to tax.
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Rejigger
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Re: What we can expect in the third millennium

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foenix wrote: Aug 27th, 2021, 6:33 pm
Rejigger wrote: Or are you suggesting that they’re doing something illegal, like tax evasion? In which case, why would they leave if they weren’t paying high taxes?
Ummmm.......because they are in position to take advantage of these kinds of "tax evasion"........and they're still here and not paying high taxes because their money is hidden offshore or other ways.

Canada Has a Tax Haven Problem & Nothing Is Happening About It

https://nouvelle.news/2020/07/canada-ha ... -about-it/

More than 3,000 Canadian names in the Paradise Papers

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/paradi ... -1.4386126

CRA identifies nearly 900 Canadians in Panama Papers, 5 investigations underway

https://globalnews.ca/news/5124637/pana ... dians-cra/
Tax evasion is a separate subject from taxing the ultra-wealthy, which is what we had been discussing.

But, again, if they are engaged in tax evasion, they wouldn't be worried about paying high taxes, ergo no need to leave Canada for such a reason. And if they are paying high taxes and they tell us they're leaving the country because of it, why would you doubt them?

Can you see the contradiction?
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Re: What we can expect in the third millennium

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foenix wrote: Aug 27th, 2021, 6:33 pm Ummmm.......because they are in position to take advantage of these kinds of "tax evasion"........and they're still here and not paying high taxes because their money is hidden offshore or other ways.

More than 3,000 Canadian names in the Paradise Papers
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/paradi ... -1.4386126
From the above article, "Howlett said the Canadian government facilitates this practice by signing tax agreements with tax havens. "This is legal, and it should not be legal. That's the point."

If it's legal, it's not "tax evasion" and it's not "hidden offshore" as you wrote.
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Re: What we can expect in the third millennium

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Rejigger wrote: Aug 28th, 2021, 10:02 am
foenix wrote: Aug 27th, 2021, 6:33 pm Ummmm.......because they are in position to take advantage of these kinds of "tax evasion"........and they're still here and not paying high taxes because their money is hidden offshore or other ways.

More than 3,000 Canadian names in the Paradise Papers
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/paradi ... -1.4386126
From the above article, "Howlett said the Canadian government facilitates this practice by signing tax agreements with tax havens. "This is legal, and it should not be legal. That's the point."

If it's legal, it's not "tax evasion" and it's not "hidden offshore" as you wrote.
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...except, tax havens might be legal but if one doesn't disclose the wealth in those tax havens and not pay tax on them, then that's called "tax evasion" and it's illegal. If it weren't for the leaks like the Paradise and the Panama papers, CRA or any of the other countries' tax authorities wouldn't even know about those accounts.
Wealthy Canadians with hidden offshore accounts are evading up to $3 billion in tax every year, according to the first ever estimate of the international tax gap by the Canada Revenue Agency, obtained by the Star.

In a report to be made public Thursday, the government estimates Canadian individuals are hiding between $75.9 billion and $240.5 billion in offshore tax havens and elsewhere, and not paying tax on it.

The analysis “gives a sense of the potential magnitude of forgone tax revenues associated with the unreported offshore investment income earned by Canadians,” states the report. “Understanding how and why taxpayers are non-compliant is critical to help preserve the integrity of the tax system and to protect Canada’s revenue base, which supports programs and benefits delivered to Canadians.”
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thestar ... -year.html
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Ka-El
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Re: What we can expect in the third millennium

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From the States but this study might change some thinking and have some impact on interest rates in the near future …
The wealthy - not the Fed - are to blame for low interest rates and rising inequality

• It's inequality that dragged interest rates lower, not the other way around, NBER researchers said Friday.
• Wealthy Americans' ballooning savings over the last two decades fueled interest rates' decline, they find.
• Lower rates lift asset values and help the rich get richer, an expert says. Or in other words, "inequality begets inequality!"

<snip>

The Fed has taken flak for the trend, with economists warning that near-zero rates worsen inequality. But what if that narrative is wrong, and the wealthy are behind rates' steady decline instead of the Fed?

The conventional argument should be flipped on its head, according to a study published Friday by the National Bureau for Economic Research. Wealthy Americans' booming income powered the decades-long decline in interest rates, economists Atif Mian, Ludwig Straub, and Amir Sufi wrote. That downtrend then lifted stocks and most recently powered the market's rebound from 2020 lows.

"It is a vicious cycle, and we are stuck in it," Mian wrote in a Tuesday tweet. In other words, it may not be the Fed's fault, which means it will be much harder to solve.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/markets ... li=AAggFp5
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Rejigger
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Re: What we can expect in the third millennium

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foenix wrote: Aug 30th, 2021, 9:21 am
...except, tax havens might be legal but if one doesn't disclose the wealth in those tax havens and not pay tax on them, then that's called "tax evasion" and it's illegal. If it weren't for the leaks like the Paradise and the Panama papers, CRA or any of the other countries' tax authorities wouldn't even know about those accounts.

Wealthy Canadians with hidden offshore accounts are evading up to $3 billion in tax every year, according to the first ever estimate of the international tax gap by the Canada Revenue Agency, obtained by the Star.

In a report to be made public Thursday, the government estimates Canadian individuals are hiding between $75.9 billion and $240.5 billion in offshore tax havens and elsewhere, and not paying tax on it.”
Wow! Those are some very large estimates! Must have had a lot of charges laid in the Paradise Papers and Panama Papers scandals, eh? Do you happen to know how many criminal charges were laid out of those 3,900 Canadian names?
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Re: What we can expect in the third millennium

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I’ll ask AGAIN, then…

Tax evasion is a separate subject from taxing the ultra-wealthy, which is what we had been discussing.

So, if they are engaged in tax evasion, they wouldn't be worried about paying high taxes, ergo no need to leave Canada for such a reason. And if they are paying high taxes and they tell us they're leaving the country because of it, why would you doubt them?


There’s a contradiction here.
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Re: What we can expect in the third millennium

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Rejigger wrote: Aug 30th, 2021, 4:47 pm I’ll ask AGAIN, then…

Tax evasion is a separate subject from taxing the ultra-wealthy, which is what we had been discussing.

So, if they are engaged in tax evasion, they wouldn't be worried about paying high taxes, ergo no need to leave Canada for such a reason. And if they are paying high taxes and they tell us they're leaving the country because of it, why would you doubt them?


There’s a contradiction here.
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It's the same coin, the ultra rich are evading taxes, still live in Canada and enjoying the amenities afforded by the taxes paid by the middle class. Taxing the ultra wealthy because they are hiding their money off-shore and not paying their share of the taxes is the other side of that coin......see how that works?
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Re: What we can expect in the third millennium

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Rejigger wrote: Aug 30th, 2021, 4:45 pm
foenix wrote: Aug 30th, 2021, 9:21 am
...except, tax havens might be legal but if one doesn't disclose the wealth in those tax havens and not pay tax on them, then that's called "tax evasion" and it's illegal. If it weren't for the leaks like the Paradise and the Panama papers, CRA or any of the other countries' tax authorities wouldn't even know about those accounts.

Wealthy Canadians with hidden offshore accounts are evading up to $3 billion in tax every year, according to the first ever estimate of the international tax gap by the Canada Revenue Agency, obtained by the Star.

In a report to be made public Thursday, the government estimates Canadian individuals are hiding between $75.9 billion and $240.5 billion in offshore tax havens and elsewhere, and not paying tax on it.”
Wow! Those are some very large estimates! Must have had a lot of charges laid in the Paradise Papers and Panama Papers scandals, eh? Do you happen to know how many criminal charges were laid out of those 3,900 Canadian names?
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[icon_lol2.gif] Is that a serious question? CRA -vs- the ultra-wealthy's tax lawyers? It's not even a fair fight. But that's not the discussion here is it? The question was if the ultra wealthy are avoiding paying taxes in Canada and the answer to that question is........most definitely they are. That's the motivation for taxing the ultra-wealthy/wealthy because they are the ones hiding their money off-shore and get them to pay their share of taxes for Canada. You find something wrong with that?
Last edited by foenix on Aug 31st, 2021, 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What we can expect in the third millennium

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foenix wrote: Aug 31st, 2021, 8:00 am
Rejigger wrote: Aug 30th, 2021, 4:45 pm

Wow! Those are some very large estimates! Must have had a lot of charges laid in the Paradise Papers and Panama Papers scandals, eh? Do you happen to know how many criminal charges were laid out of those 3,900 Canadian names?
[icon_lol2.gif] Is that a serious question? CRA -vs- the ultra-wealthy's tax lawyers? It's not even a fair fight. But that's not the discussion here is it? The question was if the ultra wealthy are avoiding paying taxes in Canada and the answer to that question is........most definitely they are. That's the motivation for taxing the ultra-wealthy/wealthy because they are the ones hiding their money off-shore and get them to pay their share of taxes for Canada. You find something wrong with that?
No, the question was whether or not a 'wealth tax' would work...
BC Landlord wrote: Aug 25th, 2021, 5:26 pm
foenix wrote: Aug 25th, 2021, 1:44 pm Wealth tax would raise far more money than previously thought
That's been debunked time after time ... Tax revenues never increase proportionally to an increase in taxation, if any. Especially when it comes to wealthier segment of the population. Wealth is very mobile. Nowadays, it takes just a few mouse clicks, ... and off it's gone.
...which then turned into you questioning that fact that the wealthy are leaving Canada to avoid paying taxes...
foenix wrote: Aug 26th, 2021, 8:01 pm People move all the time to other countries for various reason........nothing new there. If the ultra wealthy wants to move anytime, they can but I guess they won't be calling Canada home. I'm sure we will survive and they can make their money in another country. Bon voyagee is what I would say to that. It's not like they are paying their share of income earned in this country, like the middle class are.
You took exception to idea that taxing the ultra-wealthy won't work, despite the fact that you are, in essence, offering proof that attempts to tax the ultra-wealthy haven't worked ("they can move any time", "tax havens", "not even a fair fight").

You also said that you don't believe that wealthy are leaving the country because of high taxes while at the same time saying the wealthy don't pay taxes. Curious. If they aren't paying taxes, then why would they say they're leaving Canada because they're paying high taxes? Why wouldn't they just be like, 'Warmer climates. C-ya!'

Your logic is contradictory. Choose one or the other - on both of the points discussed above.

So why would you believe a politician who feeds you a line about 'higher taxes for the wealthy'? You know it won't work, you just haven't gotten to the finish line of your thought process yet. Almost there, though.

We should go back to discussing how the government is protecting the interests of the 'little guy' renter. Maybe you'll start to see the light there, too?
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Re: What we can expect in the third millennium

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Apparently, Mr. Singh's (the NDP leader) solution to all our fiscal ills is to hike taxes on Canadian billionaires. On all 100 of them! What a joke. But it appeals to gullible.
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Re: What we can expect in the third millennium

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foenix wrote:
[icon_lol2.gif] Is that a serious question? CRA -vs- the ultra-wealthy's tax lawyers? It's not even a fair fight. But that's not the discussion here is it? The question was if the ultra wealthy are avoiding paying taxes in Canada and the answer to that question is........most definitely they are. That's the motivation for taxing the ultra-wealthy/wealthy because they are the ones hiding their money off-shore and get them to pay their share of taxes for Canada. You find something wrong with that?
Rejigger wrote: No, the question was whether or not a 'wealth tax' would work...
No that wasn't the original discussion. You just think that because you crashed the discussion in the middle of a discussion.

Here's the original sequence......
[quote ="Ka-el"]

On the one hand you acknowledge the gap between the ultra-rich and the poorest has grown, and that it is the middle class who is stuck paying for the social programs. What do the ultra rich fear? Paying taxes like everyone else?
MAPearce wrote:Nope ....

Not being able to earn a reward for the risk they take using their own money to make more ... Meantime providing people an opportunity to better themselves by having a decent paying job , that make the employer money ..

I know it sounds "weird" to you Ka el , but that's how it works ..

The rich DO pay taxes . Every dollar I make has a deduction for "social" programs ( CPP . OAS , EI ) and the "ultra rich" employer matches those deduction.. If THAT isn't a tax , that the "ultra poor" DON'T pay but get to collect for doing nothing , I'll eat your hat.
To which I replied.......
foenix wrote:
Really, could have fooled me......

Wealth tax would raise far more money than previously thought
Inequality has reached new heights in Canada in recent years. The richest 1% now control 25% of Canada’s wealth, according to a recent Parliamentary Budget Office (PBO) report. Research from the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives shows that the 87 richest families in the country each hold, on average, 4,448 times more wealth than the typical family. Together these 87 families hold more wealth than the bottom 12 million Canadians combined.

Inequality is linked to worse performance on a wide range of health and social outcomes, as international epidemiological research shows. High levels of inequality also damage economic growth, as organizations like the IMF and OECD have begun to acknowledge in recent years.

Tackling inequality with a wealth tax on the super rich is hugely popular, backed by an overwhelming majority of Canadians across party lines in the most recent polling. This approach is also supported by a growing body of economic research and analysis.

This paper provides a new estimate of the revenue potential of a wealth tax using up-to-date national accounts data and estimating tax avoidance and evasion based on the latest academic research. A 1% tax on wealth over $20 million in Canada would generate about $10 billion in revenue in its first year, substantially more than the commonly cited estimate of $5.6 billion.

With a $10 billion boost to annual public revenues, Canada could lift hundreds of thousands of people out of poverty, implement long-term increases to funding for important social programs like child care, health care and seniors care, and help pay for more ambitious climate action.
So no the original discussion was MAPearce saying the the rich do pay tax........and that's where all the discussions about wealth tax and tax evasion by the rich started.
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Re: What we can expect in the third millennium

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:topic:

:dash:

Get out of the rabbit hole

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Ka-El
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What we can expect in the third millennium
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Post by Ka-El » Aug 24th, 2021, 7:50 am

As a futurist I believe we are going to see some amazing and incredible developments in the next 100 years. With the acceleration in the rate of technological advancement already underway, I think we are going to see some incredible advances made even in the next ten years (our development and use of virtual communication, for example, increased dramatically over the last couple of years due to the pandemic). This accelerated rate of change is going to present humankind with significant economic and social challenges, but some of what might be possible is very exciting.
20 events we can expect in the third millennium

Humans have tried to predict the future for thousands of years, with limited success. “We’re usually pretty bad at it, but there’s always been a Cassandra or a Delphic oracle, a Sibyl or a Nostradamus willing to make the attempt,” according to Futurism. Some speculative fiction has been surprisingly accurate; the 1962 comic strip The Jetsons, set in 2062, predicted the rise of video calls and flat-screen TVs. Here is some of what humanity might expect in the year 2100 and in the year 3000, according to climate and space scientists and futurists.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/technolo ... li=AAggNb9
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Re: What we can expect in the third millennium

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Re: What we can expect in the third millennium

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Septuagenarian wrote: Sep 1st, 2021, 7:22 am Could this millennium be the 'Mars millennium?'
"The Mars Millennium Project 2030 - Artists, Scientists, Engineers and Astronauts"
https://mmp.planetary.org
"The Mars Millennium Project 2030 is a national arts sciences and technology education initiative sponsored jointly by NASA, NASA/JPL, the J. Paul Getty Trust, the National Endowment for the Arts, the Department of Education, and the White House Millennium Council."

A little bit of history on the Mars Millenium Project...

"January 22, 1999
Washington, DC - First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton announced on January 14 the launch of the Mars Millennium Project, an official White House Millennium Council youth initiative that will challenge kindergarten through high-school students to design the first community on Mars. The J. Paul Getty Trust is a partner in guiding the project, along with the U.S. Department of Education, the National Endowment for the Arts, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration and its Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and the White House Millennium Council. In addition, many other public and private organizations as well as leading corporations and businesses will participate.
"

This project is taking awhile to get off the ground, so to speak.

Some would argue that those resources should be spent making THIS planet more inhabitable, not making another planet inhabitable. There may be something to that argument.
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