End the lockdown

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Silverstarqueen
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Silverstarqueen »

W105 wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 11:28 am
Jonrox wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 11:17 am
If you don't believe in the science and math behind this, I'm all for unvaccinated people not being allowed to shop if that's what you're suggesting.
^^ ahhh, there it is finally...full on segregation..I was waiting to see when somebody would actually admit that is what they would like to see...maybe we should also have the Military walking the streets ??

so no vax...no food, no job, no medical care...a drug addict has more rights I guess..so how much more are you willing to pay for taxes to house and feed the unvaxxed ??
If someone chooses no job, no medical care, rather than vaccinate, that's okay, what's important is that they have their right to infect and get infected unfettered. It is a free world. Just as some homeless people would rather choose their drugs and lifestyle than take the handouts from the gov't. Soon we will offer prescribed drugs (decriminalized) for them too. Their choice.
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spooker
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by spooker »

rustled wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 9:42 am Again: this shows that while the vaccine is helping - it is NOT providing the level of immunity provided by the childhood vaccines people were using as their basis for supporting the imposition of vaxports.
You do realize the game has changed since they first talked about the vaccine? And while the other vaccines have been tuned and tweaked over the decades of their use we're playing catch-up with the new one ... we're learning ... holding scientists to their original beliefs sounds a bit medieval in that before the scientific method was documented we had many ideas that were proven wrong with more investigation, i.e. world flat, everything orbits the earth, disease is vengeance of the gods
rustled wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 9:49 am And perhaps BC Landlord is not wrong. Look at what you had to do to get your vaxport, not the vaccines themselves but the technology. It's interesting to consider whether the use of your cell phone was for your convenience or for some other reason, given how easily the government could have simply mailed out a plastic card with the photo ID they have on file to everyone who has had their vaccinations.

Dystopian intrigues aside, the biggest problem I see with the vaxports is the false sense of security - the false belief that people in the restaurant aren't transmitting the virus - coupled with a fresh new way to pit people against each other.
Part of the reason that we all carry a tracking device in our pockets these days is due to the "convenience" factor that it provides us in many ways ... logistics for the app are a lot simpler and can be implemented faster than a plastic card ... and getting things done with regards to the virus should be as fast as possible to get results instead lagging and letting more people get sick and/or die

Knowing that people in restaurants have a much lower chance of getting Covid thus lowering the overall rate of infection provides a bit of breathing room ... nothing is guaranteed in this life and it's unrealistic to say that creating some room to work towards a better solution is worth nothing ...
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Ka-El
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Ka-El »

spooker wrote:... nothing is guaranteed in this life and it's unrealistic to say that creating some room to work towards a better solution is worth nothing ...
Yes, we are all in this together.These anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers remind me of the freeloaders off the land, er, freeman who believe it is all about them, and feel they have no responsibility at all for or toward the collective they live in and benefit from. They want to enjoy all the advantages of living in a collective society without contributing or having any concern or responsibility for how their choices impact others. The protests in front of hospitals that blocked ambulances and interfered with patient care and safety were particularly disgusting. There is nothing to be admired about such selfishness.
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Septuagenarian
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Re: End the lockdown

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Self removed.
Last edited by Septuagenarian on Sep 4th, 2021, 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mexi cali
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by mexi cali »

Sparki55 wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 12:29 pm
mexi cali wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 11:04 am This sounds like a trick question. Enjoy the mooses and deerses.
Not at all. Got my answer thanks. Since soon you must vaccinate to be employed at a number of locations and likely soon to be all, it's mandatory unless one wants to be homeless. I'm sure EI will be tied to it soon too.
I'll come with you to get the shot if you like and I'll ask for an extra one, to get a jump on the boosters. :130:
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Sparki55
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Sparki55 »

mexi cali wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 2:19 pm I'll come with you to get the shot if you like and I'll ask for an extra one, to get a jump on the boosters. :130:
Thanks but I'm double vaccinated...

Just caring about personal medical choices is all...
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Ka-El
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Ka-El »

Sparki55 wrote: Just caring about personal medical choices is all...
And yet, no one is taking anyone else's choice away from them. That there are consequences to every choice we make should not be a surprising concept. It has always been that way. You make a choice to drive without a license you will get arrested. If you make the choice to drive with a prohibited license you will probably do a bit of jail time. If you choose to remain unvaccinated you will still be able to access all essential services, including grocery shopping (and eating at McDonald's) but will be expected to comply with whatever health measures they have in place. If someone wants to be able to do everything else vaccinated people can then all anyone has to do is get vaccinated. Everyone has the choice to do it or not.
When I retire I want to be careful not to play too much golf. Two rounds a day should be plenty.
WESTman
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Re: End the lockdown

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And yet, no one is taking anyone else's choice away from them. That there are consequences to every choice we make should not be a surprising concept. It has always been that way. You make a choice to drive without a license you will get arrested. If you make the choice to drive with a prohibited license you will probably do a bit of jail time. If you choose to remain unvaccinated you will still be able to access all essential services, including grocery shopping (and eating at McDonald's) but will be expected to comply with whatever health measures they have in place. If someone wants to be able to do everything else vaccinated people can then all anyone has to do is get vaccinated. Everyone has the choice to do it or not.
The issue is the consequences make no sense, what level of risk does an unvaccinated person pose. Can you compare it to something else? In a society where supposedly 75 percent of eligible people are vaccinated, what risk do the other 25 percent pose? Of what percentage of those 25 percent have natural immunity?
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Jonrox
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Jonrox »

WESTman wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 2:47 pm The issue is the consequences make no sense, what level of risk does an unvaccinated person pose.
They're selfishly clogging up hospitals and are risking the health of everyone by doing that.

When they stop doing that, the consequences of choosing not to be vaccinated in a province that has a vaccine passport can maybe go away.
rustled
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by rustled »

spooker wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 12:46 pm
rustled wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 9:42 am Again: this shows that while the vaccine is helping - it is NOT providing the level of immunity provided by the childhood vaccines people were using as their basis for supporting the imposition of vaxports.
You do realize the game has changed since they first talked about the vaccine? And while the other vaccines have been tuned and tweaked over the decades of their use we're playing catch-up with the new one ... we're learning ... holding scientists to their original beliefs sounds a bit medieval in that before the scientific method was documented we had many ideas that were proven wrong with more investigation, i.e. world flat, everything orbits the earth, disease is vengeance of the gods
That's exactly what I'm saying, spooker.

We can't continue to believe herd immunity is likely with this vaccine is likely when the most recent science shows it's not likely. Our thinking needs to change to accommodate what we've learned.
spooker wrote:
rustled wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 9:49 am And perhaps BC Landlord is not wrong. Look at what you had to do to get your vaxport, not the vaccines themselves but the technology. It's interesting to consider whether the use of your cell phone was for your convenience or for some other reason, given how easily the government could have simply mailed out a plastic card with the photo ID they have on file to everyone who has had their vaccinations.

Dystopian intrigues aside, the biggest problem I see with the vaxports is the false sense of security - the false belief that people in the restaurant aren't transmitting the virus - coupled with a fresh new way to pit people against each other.
Part of the reason that we all carry a tracking device in our pockets these days is due to the "convenience" factor that it provides us in many ways ... logistics for the app are a lot simpler and can be implemented faster than a plastic card ... and getting things done with regards to the virus should be as fast as possible to get results instead lagging and letting more people get sick and/or die
That's all very well and good, spooker. It's not easy to convince me that arranging for everyone to get the app on their smartphone is faster or more efficient than mailing out a card.

Plenty of do not have smartphones, and I'll be interested to see how we're managed.
spooker wrote:Knowing that people in restaurants have a much lower chance of getting Covid thus lowering the overall rate of infection provides a bit of breathing room ... nothing is guaranteed in this life and it's unrealistic to say that creating some room to work towards a better solution is worth nothing ...
How will we know people in restaurants have a much lower chance of getting COVIID? I realize that was an assumption we made when we thought people who had been vaccinated wouldn't continue to be transmitters, and when we thought we'd achieve herd immunity with a specific percentage of the population vaccinated - neither of which is borne out by what we know now. I'd be interested in what you're basing your "much lower chance" statement on.
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Ka-El
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Ka-El »

Jonrox wrote:
, what level of risk does an unvaccinated person pose.
They're selfishly clogging up hospitals and are risking the health of everyone by doing that.
They are also much more likely to spread the virus very likely resulting in even more clogged up hospitals and more "lockdowns". The idea that every choice has a consequence is really quite simple. It just seems some people are still trying to have their choice without taking any responsibility for the consequences of that choice. Time for some people to grow up.
When I retire I want to be careful not to play too much golf. Two rounds a day should be plenty.
WESTman
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by WESTman »

They're selfishly clogging up hospitals and are risking the health of everyone by doing that.

When they stop doing that, the consequences of choosing not to be vaccinated in a province that has a vaccine passport can maybe go away.
They test people regularly in the hospital, when someone tests positive even if they were in there for cancer, liver disease, complications with old age whatever it may be they call it a Covid case. It would be nice to know some more information on all these supposed unvaccinated clogging the hospitals, but I suspect that isn't what they want.
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rustled
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by rustled »

Ka-El wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 2:42 pm
Sparki55 wrote: Just caring about personal medical choices is all...
And yet, no one is taking anyone else's choice away from them. That there are consequences to every choice we make should not be a surprising concept. It has always been that way. You make a choice to drive without a license you will get arrested. If you make the choice to drive with a prohibited license you will probably do a bit of jail time. If you choose to remain unvaccinated you will still be able to access all essential services, including grocery shopping (and eating at McDonald's) but will be expected to comply with whatever health measures they have in place. If someone wants to be able to do everything else vaccinated people can then all anyone has to do is get vaccinated. Everyone has the choice to do it or not.
We don't have a selection of public roadways that people can drive on without a licence, and another selection of public roadways that are reserved solely for licenced drivers.

The government seems to be suggesting that protecting the employees and customers at restaurants where food costs more is essential for our health and safety, while protecting the employees and customers at fast food restaurants and grocery stores isn't essential for our health and safety.

If the vaxports are really all about health and safety - protecting the vaccinated from the unvaccinated - it seems counterintuitive to me to ban the unvaccinated from places we don't have to go, while allowing them free range in the places we must go. It's pretty evident from the lists we are seeing that this is about social engineering.
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Ka-El
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Ka-El »

rustled wrote: It's pretty evident from the lists we are seeing that this is about social engineering.
:135: I am intrigued. Do tell me more.
When I retire I want to be careful not to play too much golf. Two rounds a day should be plenty.
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Rejigger
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Rejigger »

Ka-El wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 10:55 am
W105 wrote: ^^ so allowing unvaxxed and vaxxed people to shop together is ok though ??
This is where the difference between basic and essential services comes in. People have to shop for food to eat. No one is going to be physically harmed or deprived by not being able to go to a concert, movie or restaurant. That will be a choice.
I noticed you wrote "physically harmed". Congrats, I s'pose, for acknowledging the toll that such a thing will take on one's mental health - this is what the health experts have been saying all along.
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