End the lockdown

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rustled
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by rustled »

Ka-El wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 3:17 pm
rustled wrote: It's pretty evident from the lists we are seeing that this is about social engineering.
:135: I am intrigued.
LOL. If you say so...
Ka-El wrote:Do tell me more.
It was in the part of my post that may well have been too long winded for you to read:
If the vaxports are really all about health and safety - protecting the vaccinated from the unvaccinated - it seems counterintuitive to me to ban the unvaccinated from places we don't have to go, while allowing them free range in the places we must go.
Septuagenarian
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Re: End the lockdown

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Self removed.
Last edited by Septuagenarian on Sep 4th, 2021, 6:33 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Rejigger
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Re: End the lockdown

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Ka-El wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 11:29 am
W105 wrote:
^^ no I do not understand the science allowing vaxxed and unvaxxed people to shop together but not eat together...
:135: Really? You don’t understand how masks reduce transmission or how sanitizer kills the virus? Well, I’ll leave that up to you to remedy if you so choose. Don’t worry. As far as science goes it’s pretty basic stuff, but again - your choice. :smt045
I'm so very excited to see what you'll post once the (vaccine resistant*) Mu variant renders us all 'unvaccinated'. You sure you don't want to dial it back just a wee bit?

*as per early reports
~
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Ka-El
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Ka-El »

Rejigger wrote: I noticed you wrote "physically harmed". Congrats, I s'pose, for acknowledging the toll that such a thing will take on one's mental health - this is what the health experts have been saying all along.
Yes, this has been tough on everyone, some more than others. Patients in hospital or trying to get into the hospital for care during the so-called "health freedom" protests certainly had their health freedom taken from them and many described the experience as traumatic. The sooner we get past the pandemic as it is right now the sooner all of us can go back to enjoying a more normal life. It's unfortunate we have this small minority of idiots who are making sure that won't happen anytime soon.
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rustled
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by rustled »

Rejigger wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 3:21 pm
Ka-El wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 10:55 am
This is where the difference between basic and essential services comes in. People have to shop for food to eat. No one is going to be physically harmed or deprived by not being able to go to a concert, movie or restaurant. That will be a choice.
I noticed you wrote "physically harmed". Congrats, I s'pose, for acknowledging the toll that such a thing will take on one's mental health - this is what the health experts have been saying all along.
~
More to the point, though, the unvaxxed are not going to be banned from going where we vaxxed have to go to shop for food to eat, or from the least expensive restaurants. What's with that?

They'll still be spreading it among the vaxxed, same as they would in settings on the list of places they're not welcome. Makes it difficult to believe the vaxports are about public health and public safety.
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Ka-El
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Ka-El »

rustled wrote:
Ka-El wrote: :135: I am intrigued.
It was in the part of my post that may well have been too long winded for you to read:
If the vaxports are really all about health and safety - protecting the vaccinated from the unvaccinated - it seems counterintuitive to me to ban the unvaccinated from places we don't have to go, while allowing them free range in the places we must go.
Sure, there are some apparent contradictions there (that have been addressed) but tell me how this is social engineering. I googled it and found social engineering is defined as the use of centralized planning in an attempt to manage social change and regulate the future development and behavior of a society. Okay, but this is something done deliberately and if this is really the case then are we to assume that Horgan and others are in cahoots with Trudeau, and all of them in cahoots with other world leaders to regulate the future development and behavior of a society. I wonder how they all came to agreement on what the desired outcomes would be. It really does sound like a bit of a stretch to me and possibly more appropriate in the conspiracy theory section, but maybe you have better insight into this plan and how they are going to make it work.
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Sparki55
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Re: End the lockdown

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Ka-El wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 2:42 pm
Sparki55 wrote: Just caring about personal medical choices is all...
And yet, no one is taking anyone else's choice away from them. That there are consequences to every choice we make should not be a surprising concept. It has always been that way.
As an adult, I understand choices come with consequences. I am not asking the world to free anyone of consequences from their own poor choices. I fully understand people will have more severe symptoms without a vaccine.

Fine, I'll bite and play with your drivers' licence analogy. Imagine that you were not allowed to wear glasses (a mask) to drive but instead had to opt for laser eye surgery (a vaccine) to be allowed to drive? Laser eye surgery is safe, effective and prevents issues from glasses blowing off (motorcycle), night glare and other issues that attribute to more accidents.

The issue is and will always be keeping hospital caseloads at manageable levels. Why don't we have a special pandemic health clinic to treat people? Why does it need to be at the hospital. Can't anything be done to help with the situation other than plan A, get everyone vaccinated? What is plan B?

There is no threat to a vaccinated person to have a non-vaccinated person eat diner in the same restaurant.
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Ka-El
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Ka-El »

Sparki55 wrote: There is no threat to a vaccinated person to have a non-vaccinated person eat diner in the same restaurant.
Other than passing the virus on to the unvaccinated person who then carries it and passes it along to someone else who might not be vaccinated and so on and so on. The threat is I might pass the virus on to someone I love or maybe an unvaccinated co-worker. The threat is we all suffer from economic shutdowns caused by outbreaks. The threat is if our hospitals get clogged with COVID patients and I'm waiting for hip surgery then I have to live crippled with pain all that much longer. The threat is we already have nurses walking off the job due to complete burnout and that could get worse impacting all of us. I am personally not worried about getting too sick as I am double vaccinated, but I am thinking of more than just my wants.
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Sparki55
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Re: End the lockdown

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Ka-El wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 3:58 pm The threat is if our hospitals get clogged with COVID patients and I'm waiting for hip surgery then I have to live crippled with pain all that much longer.
Then treat unvaccinated people in tent clinics separate from hospitals. We seem to have unlimited money for everything else, what's the problem?

A plan is only as good as it's contingencies... Where is plan B if not everyone gets vaccinated?
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JLives
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Re: End the lockdown

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Sparki55 wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 4:03 pm
Ka-El wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 3:58 pm The threat is if our hospitals get clogged with COVID patients and I'm waiting for hip surgery then I have to live crippled with pain all that much longer.
Then treat unvaccinated people in tent clinics separate from hospitals. We seem to have unlimited money for everything else, what's the problem?

A plan is only as good as it's contingencies... Where is plan B if not everyone gets vaccinated?
It's the straining of personnel resources that is causing this issue. OR room access is reduced because the people who would be working in them are working on Covid patients.
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Sparki55
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Re: End the lockdown

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JLives wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 4:05 pm It's the straining of personnel resources that is causing this issue. OR room access is reduced because the people who would be working in them are working on Covid patients.
This is a pandemic, right? Where are the reserve personal to help out? Why can't we have a tent clinic to serve the unvaccinated?

What if this virus had 10x the death rate and was more transmissible with no vaccine yet.

Again, where is plan B?
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GordonH
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by GordonH »

Sparki55 wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 4:08 pm
JLives wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 4:05 pm It's the straining of personnel resources that is causing this issue. OR room access is reduced because the people who would be working in them are working on Covid patients.
This is a pandemic, right? Where are the reserve personal to help out? Why can't we have a tent clinic to serve the unvaccinated?

What if this virus had 10x the death rate and was more transmissible with no vaccine yet.

Again, where is plan B?
You will have to ask Adrian Dix about plan B.
Come on Supreme Court of Canada step up and do Your Job.

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Ka-El
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Ka-El »

Sparki55 wrote: This is a pandemic, right? Where are the reserve personal to help out?
Not only do we not have reserve personnel to help out, but our existing health care workers are burning out with some even leaving the profession in disgust at the irresponsible and selfish behavior of the people protesting and interfering with the efforts of those trying to help people and get this pandemic under control. I can only imagine how disheartening that is.
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Re: End the lockdown

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WESTman wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 2:47 pm
And yet, no one is taking anyone else's choice away from them. That there are consequences to every choice we make should not be a surprising concept. It has always been that way. You make a choice to drive without a license you will get arrested. If you make the choice to drive with a prohibited license you will probably do a bit of jail time. If you choose to remain unvaccinated you will still be able to access all essential services, including grocery shopping (and eating at McDonald's) but will be expected to comply with whatever health measures they have in place. If someone wants to be able to do everything else vaccinated people can then all anyone has to do is get vaccinated. Everyone has the choice to do it or not.
The issue is the consequences make no sense, what level of risk does an unvaccinated person pose. Can you compare it to something else? In a society where supposedly 75 percent of eligible people are vaccinated, what risk do the other 25 percent pose? Of what percentage of those 25 percent have natural immunity?
If someone drives drunk, repeatedly, they get some pretty serious repercussions, maybe even lose their license which could mean losing their job. they might never have actually killed anyone, still our society has deemed it a crime.
We've already pointed out the risks to the other 25 %, taking up hospital beds for one thing. Businesses that might have to shut down because some workers are ill and they can't function on a skeleton crew.
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by WESTman »


Not only do we not have reserve personnel to help out, but our existing health care workers are burning out with some even leaving the profession in disgust at the irresponsible and selfish behavior of the people protesting and interfering with the efforts of those trying to help people and get this pandemic under control. I can only imagine how disheartening that is.
They're leaving because of the mandatory vax policy coming up.
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