End the lockdown

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Silverstarqueen
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Silverstarqueen »

Sparki55 wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 4:08 pm
JLives wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 4:05 pm It's the straining of personnel resources that is causing this issue. OR room access is reduced because the people who would be working in them are working on Covid patients.
This is a pandemic, right? Where are the reserve personal to help out? Why can't we have a tent clinic to serve the unvaccinated?
What if this virus had 10x the death rate and was more transmissible with no vaccine yet.
Again, where is plan B?
Why can't we send the unvaccinated home to isolate with a week's supply of ivermectin? They keep turning up in our hospitals. Nurses don't grow on trees.
Sparki55
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Sparki55 »

Ka-El wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 4:41 pm Not only do we not have reserve personnel to help out, but our existing health care workers are burning out with some even leaving the profession in disgust at the irresponsible and selfish behavior of the people protesting and interfering with the efforts of those trying to help people and get this pandemic under control. I can only imagine how disheartening that is.
Where are the reserve personnel? Not here in Kelowna and not helping out with auxiliary hospitals.

I get some are disheartened. Most are leaving because of underappreciation and overstaffing — not because of the protest yesterday. That's an internal issue, not something to blame on the public.

Again, where is plan B? If the expectation was everything was to go perfectly and everyone vaccinated with no other plan then the issue is with those in charge.
Sparki55
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Sparki55 »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 4:50 pm Why can't we send the unvaccinated home to isolate with a week's supply of ivermectin? They keep turning up in our hospitals. Nurses don't grow on trees.
That is still a better option than making it mandatory everyone is vaccianted.
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Hurtlander
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Hurtlander »

mexi cali wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 10:04 am
Hurtlander wrote: Sep 3rd, 2021, 6:55 am The government mandating that all government employees and all healthcare workers be fully vaccinated for Covid is eventually going to eventually cost the government (we the taxpayers) $Millions, possibly even $Billions once the Supreme Court of Canada rules that forcing Canadians to put something in their bodies, against their will, is a complete violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms... The government is going to be sued big time...... This is why one of the guys running to be PM is refusing to make Covid vaccines mandatory, because it’s illegal to do so... Note; I’m not arguing the pro’s and con’s of the Covid vaccines, just the legality of locking people out of non-essential services if they aren’t vaccinated, or forcing government regulated employees to be vaccinated.
Same goes for the government forcing mandatory three day hotel quarantine at their own expense on Canadian citizens returning from abroad up until recently, the SCoC will definitely rule against the government.
You're missing a key point, maybe THE key point. Nobody is being forced to get vaccinated. There is a difference between telling someone to report to a vaccine center and take the jab or face arrest or confinement (same thing I guess) versus saying that if you want to work here or participate in this, you must be vaccinated. That is not "forcing" anyone. Their choice is their choice.

I know that the following has been overdone but it is a relevant example. If you want to drive a car, you must be licensed. If you want to shop here, you must be a member. If you want to be a police officer, you must be able to pass the exams. If you want to enter this establishment, you must produce identification. If you want to golf here, you must be a member.

There are countless restrictions we all face everyday for really very frivolous activities but for those who want to participate in them, they must follow the rules.

Nobody is forcing them, it is their choice.

You can't complain about not being able to golf at the country club because you won't buy a membership.
You’re missing the key point that I was trying to make... When the federal government announced that all federally regulated employees must be fully vaccinated against Covid as a condition of employment, that’s most definitely being forced to put something into your body if you want to keep your job... Same goes for all healthcare workers that must be vaccinated to keep their jobs. Once again, I’m not arguing for or against the vaccine, I’m fully vaccinated with Pfizer, all I’m saying is that at some point down the road the Supreme Court of Canada will rule the compulsory vaccinations are a violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Hypothetically, what if some brilliant scientist discovers that Lysergic Acid Diethylamide actually 100% permanently cures Covid? Are you willing to force every Canadian 12 and older to take a hit of LSD ?
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by foenix »

Hurtlander wrote: ..........all I’m saying is that at some point down the road the Supreme Court of Canada will rule the compulsory vaccinations are a violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
I dont know about that as Florida is going through that process with DeathSantis and the school boards. The question becomes, where does your rights end when you have the possibility to harm others by not wearing masks and not vaccinating. I think the Charter does mention something about that in reference to religion but it's not a big stretch to consider not vaccinating or not wearing masks during a Pandemic may fall into the same category.
However, section 1 of the Charter also recognizes that even in a democracy, rights and freedoms are not absolute. For example, no one is free to yell "fire" in a crowded theatre, to slander someone, to engage in religious practices which cause harm to others, to spread child pornography or hate propaganda or to enter or leave Canada without any restrictions whatsoever. Parliament or a provincial legislature can limit fundamental rights, but only if it can show that the limit

is set out in a law; pursues an important goal which can be justified in a free and democratic society; andpursues that goal in a reasonable and proportionate manner.

The interests of society must always be balanced against the interests of individuals to see if limits on individual rights can be justified
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mexi cali
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by mexi cali »

You’re missing the key point that I was trying to make... When the federal government announced that all federally regulated employees must be fully vaccinated against Covid as a condition of employment, that’s most definitely being forced to put something into your body if you want to keep your job... Same goes for all healthcare workers that must be vaccinated to keep their jobs. Once again, I’m not arguing for or against the vaccine, I’m fully vaccinated with Pfizer, all I’m saying is that at some point down the road the Supreme Court of Canada will rule the compulsory vaccinations are a violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Hypothetically, what if some brilliant scientist discovers that Lysergic Acid Diethylamide actually 100% permanently cures Covid? Are you willing to force every Canadian 12 and older to take a hit of LSD ?
It cannot be considered "forced" if there is a choice. It may be a harsh one but it is a choice. Get the jab or get another job. It's not unreasonable.

Stop for a minute to consider the risks we all take every day with no thought at all. Then stop to consider the extremely minimal risk posed by the vaccine which is being vilified by people who have no GOOD reason to not take it. The common good is what is at stake and it is surprising how many people who truly are only seeing this from their own personal perspective.

Many of us have chosen for the common good to get vaccinated. It makes sense and it is the respectful thing to do.

And no, compulsory vaccines are not going to be quashed as a violation because of how it weighs against the common good which the charter makes provision for.

And who wouldn't wanna "take a trip and never leave the farm" (thanks Ray) if it meant 100% winnage? I'm in .
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Rejigger
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Rejigger »

...................................... ***WAKE UP CALL***...................................

Let's all try to keep up, here. The latest variant, Mu, is said to be "vaccine resistant" so we're all going to be considered unvaccinated in short time.

B.1.621 is the latest variant of interest, according to the WHO, and was given the designation — and a catchier Greek alphabet-based name, "mu" — on August 30.

"The mu variant has a constellation of mutations that indicate potential properties of immune escape," reads the WHO's latest weekly epidemiological update.

That means those with some level of immunity to earlier strains, either by previous infection or vaccination, might be susceptible to infection from mu — but that's only according to preliminary data and "needs to be confirmed by further studies," the update continued."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/latest-c ... -1.6161194

The Lambda COVID-19 variant is now spreading in Canada and Mu is the next variant that will arrive.

How effective is a vaxport then? Turns out the vaccine itself is ineffective against Mu. So now what?
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W105
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by W105 »

mexi cali wrote: Sep 5th, 2021, 8:37 am
You’re missing the key point that I was trying to make... When the federal government announced that all federally regulated employees must be fully vaccinated against Covid as a condition of employment, that’s most definitely being forced to put something into your body if you want to keep your job... Same goes for all healthcare workers that must be vaccinated to keep their jobs. Once again, I’m not arguing for or against the vaccine, I’m fully vaccinated with Pfizer, all I’m saying is that at some point down the road the Supreme Court of Canada will rule the compulsory vaccinations are a violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Hypothetically, what if some brilliant scientist discovers that Lysergic Acid Diethylamide actually 100% permanently cures Covid? Are you willing to force every Canadian 12 and older to take a hit of LSD ?
It cannot be considered "forced" if there is a choice. It may be a harsh one but it is a choice. Get the jab or get another job. It's not unreasonable.

Stop for a minute to consider the risks we all take every day with no thought at all. Then stop to consider the extremely minimal risk posed by the vaccine which is being vilified by people who have no GOOD reason to not take it. The common good is what is at stake and it is surprising how many people who truly are only seeing this from their own personal perspective.

Many of us have chosen for the common good to get vaccinated. It makes sense and it is the respectful thing to do.

And no, compulsory vaccines are not going to be quashed as a violation because of how it weighs against the common good which the charter makes provision for.

And who wouldn't wanna "take a trip and never leave the farm" (thanks Ray) if it meant 100% winnage? I'm in .

^^ with all due respect, you are retired Mexi..so this decision that get the jab or lose your job really doesn't affect your life, so it's easy to be a cheer leader for it..

can you imagine if you were told that when you turn 65 yrs old you will "have" to live in a senior's home ( who cares if you own your own home and that you can live independently ) because your a higher risk for getting sick and our Healthcare system can no longer handle dealing with seniors, so making you live a controlled environment is the only way our Government can protect "you" and our poor fragile Healthcare system...think you would be ok with that ??
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fluffy
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by fluffy »

Rejigger wrote: Sep 5th, 2021, 8:58 amHow effective is a vaxport then? Turns out the vaccine itself is ineffective against Mu. So now what?
This is a dynamic situation. There are so many of us that can't keep up with what we do know, is it really time to start throwing more unknown variables into the mix ?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
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Rejigger
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Rejigger »

fluffy wrote: Sep 5th, 2021, 9:17 am
Rejigger wrote: Sep 5th, 2021, 8:58 amHow effective is a vaxport then? Turns out the vaccine itself is ineffective against Mu. So now what?
This is a dynamic situation. There are so many of us that can't keep up with what we do know, is it really time to start throwing more unknown variables into the mix ?
I believe it's exactly the time to throw known variables into the mix.

I've advocated in these forums for people to watch what's happening in Israel because they are ahead of us with vaccine rates, etc. They know how our bodies are responding (or failing to respond) to this vaccine.

And while we argue about vaccines and vaxports here,the Mu variant is knocking on our door. So, yes, it's time to think about who's on the other side of the door. We're not talking about years down the road, we're talking about months if not weeks.
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mexi cali
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by mexi cali »

W105 wrote: Sep 5th, 2021, 9:16 am
mexi cali wrote: Sep 5th, 2021, 8:37 am

It cannot be considered "forced" if there is a choice. It may be a harsh one but it is a choice. Get the jab or get another job. It's not unreasonable.

Stop for a minute to consider the risks we all take every day with no thought at all. Then stop to consider the extremely minimal risk posed by the vaccine which is being vilified by people who have no GOOD reason to not take it. The common good is what is at stake and it is surprising how many people who truly are only seeing this from their own personal perspective.

Many of us have chosen for the common good to get vaccinated. It makes sense and it is the respectful thing to do.

And no, compulsory vaccines are not going to be quashed as a violation because of how it weighs against the common good which the charter makes provision for.

And who wouldn't wanna "take a trip and never leave the farm" (thanks Ray) if it meant 100% winnage? I'm in .

^^ with all due respect, you are retired Mexi..so this decision that get the jab or lose your job really doesn't affect your life, so it's easy to be a cheer leader for it..

can you imagine if you were told that when you turn 65 yrs old you will "have" to live in a senior's home ( who cares if you own your own home and that you can live independently ) because your a higher risk for getting sick and our Healthcare system can no longer handle dealing with seniors, so making you live a controlled environment is the only way our Government can protect "you" and our poor fragile Healthcare system...think you would be ok with that ??
A) I am Un-retired (choice).
B) That example is off the charts and has no bearing whatsoever on what is happening now.

I waffle everyday between backing away from these threads because I realize the futility in trying to get the die hard disbelievers to see the light and hoping that maybe one or two will come to see the real truth..

Both sides are entrenched in their individual beliefs but one group is using actual verifiable data to guide them and the other is not.

Every single time one of that group posts "proof" in support of their belief, it gets shot down and it happens very quickly. The "leaders and experts" that group have chosen are not qualified, in most cases, to comment on the weather but they open their maws and spout unsubstantiated, non-scientific dogma that has no basis in reality but they present it as the unvarnished truth.

I have said many times that if any of that group could offer an ounce of incontrovertible truth in support of their contentions that the vaccines are unsafe, were rushed to market, that the vaccines has been responsible for untold deaths, that it causes infertility, that "they" in general cause autism (I'm lookin at you Jenny), that Ivermectin is safe and effective, that there are just as many vaccinated in hospitals as there are un-vaccinated, that keeping un-vaccinated people away from vaccinated people is pointless, that only old people are dying from CV19 or that masks are ineffective, I would be all ears.

If, at the end of all of this, I am proven to be wrong, I will be the first to admit it. But I'm not. I know it and my hope is that many of that other group will come to know it before it's too late for many of them.

One, two......
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GordonH
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by GordonH »

Coronavirus (covid-19) will probably mutate into various variants going forward for the foreseeable future.
May as well sit back and try to enjoy life with a few restrictions i.e masks indoors at businesses etc... etc

I actually don’t expect domestic vax passports to stand up to any court challenges, it will be dropped pretty quickly.
Come on Supreme Court of Canada step up and do Your Job.

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Rejigger
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by Rejigger »

GordonH wrote: Sep 5th, 2021, 9:53 am Coronavirus (covid-19) will probably mutate into various variants going forward for the foreseeable future.
May as well sit back and try to enjoy life with a few restrictions i.e masks indoors at businesses etc... etc

I actually don’t expect domestic vax passports to stand up to any court challenges, it will be dropped pretty quickly.
I'm double vaxxed yet have no intention of signing up for, or using (if one is forced on me), a vaxport. I'll shop online for my non-essentials and save money by not going into movie theatres. Superstore, Walmart and Costco are all I really need anyway.

I expect amazon to see an increase in business ... but amazon shares. :D
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WESTman
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by WESTman »

I waffle everyday between backing away from these threads because I realize the futility in trying to get the die hard disbelievers to see the light and hoping that maybe one or two will come to see the real truth..
If you find yourself trying to convince people day in day out that there's a pandemic, there might not be a pandemic.....
"Medical science is making such remarkable progress that soon none of us will be well."
— A. Huxley
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binky11
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Re: End the lockdown

Post by binky11 »

Mtownsend wrote: Aug 31st, 2021, 11:50 am Conservative voters should seriously consider casting their ballot to the Peoples party of Canada this election. The PPC vows to end the expensive and authoritarian corona measures in place that are ruining small businesses and our economy. We simply cannot afford another 18+ months of this desolate isolation. No other party platform seeks to end the madness. All the other parties are in support of segregation and violating the charter of rights. We have 20 days to stop tyranny. Conservatives and liberals are one and the same. Please join me in voting for our freedoms back.
PPC getting my vote. :up:
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