Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

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sarahfromkelowna
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Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by sarahfromkelowna »

** Some of the Trudeau quotes in this article have been paraphrased.

We’re in a mess. Elective surgeries are cancelled. Our health workers are overworked and fed up. And there’s just no way that Canadian small businesses can handle another lockdown. Hell, none of us can handle another lockdown.

And we all know exactly who to blame for this disaster of a year…
“The unvaccinated are to blame for all your troubles” - Trudeau

That’s right, the unvaccinated. The anti-vaxxers. They’re to blame for our crumbling economy, our eroded hospital system, our lack of unity. Trudeau wants you to know that they’re “putting your children at risk.” Let the anger of all Covid descend upon them.

What exactly is so bad about these evil creatures, the anti-vaxxers? Well, there’s no evidence that they spread the virus more frequently than their vaccinated brethren. After all, vaccinated and unvaccinated people have the same viral load, which likely means they have the same spreading capacity (source below). The real problem with the anti-vaxxers is that they end up in hospital more frequently then their vaccinated brethren. And that’s what this all comes down to:

Trudeau: “We can’t afford for these vaccine refusing maniacs to be walking around while our hospitals are dangerously underfunded.”

It’s true, British Columbian hospitals have been running severely understaffed for years. Even without Covid, our hospitals were on the brink of collapse. In August 2021, Saanich Peninsula Hospital on Vancouver Island had to close its emergency room due to an understaffing issue, even without any Covid 19 patients. And it’s only getting worse. Since the pandemic began, our hospitals have decreased in patient capacity.

“There just isn’t enough money in the budget to pay nurses properly, so it’s important that no one gets sick.” - Trudeau probably

So the key to keeping our hospitals running is to not get sick. That might sound a little tricky in a pandemic, but where there’s a will, there’s a way. Just get your shots, one every 6-8 months, and as long as the vaccine-resistant variants (that are everywhere else right now) don’t take hold, we’ll be able to continue hanging on by our fragile thread. Problem solved.

And if they won’t take it, those anti-vaxxers?

Well, simple, we’ll just keep them out of society.

“A one billion dollar citizen control system is the simplest, most cost-effective way to keep our hospitals from collapsing.” - Trudeau probably

Will this system viciously divide us and force us into regular confrontations? Probably. Does this system have the potential to devolve into some kind of dystopian surveillance system, where minor criminals are tracked everywhere they go and their movement is restricted? Sure, maybe. But don’t worry, you know exactly who to blame when all that happens…

“Not me, it’s the anti-vaxxers who are at fault!” - Trudeau

If anyone suggests that we try to think of other solutions to our problems, they’re an anti vaxxer. Even if they’ve been vaccinated. Only an anti-vaxxer could question such an ingenious system. To the rest of us, this issue is obviously black and white: invasive citizen control system, or Covid forever. There’s no middle ground. There are no other solutions. And above all, there’s no time for a discussion.

Vaccinated individuals spread the virus just as readily as unvaccinated individuals: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21261387v1
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Merry
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by Merry »

sarahfromkelowna wrote: Sep 4th, 2021, 11:15 am
Vaccinated individuals spread the virus just as readily as unvaccinated individuals: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21261387v1
And this is something more people need to understand.

Being vaccinated doesn’t prevent you catching and/or spreading Covid.

Being vaccinated merely lowers your odds of developing symptoms so severe you require hospitalization and/or die. But there’s still a chance you’ll end up hospitalized anyway, because the vaccines aren’t 100% effective.

So, vaccine passports will NOT make you, or anybody else safer.

What they might do is coerce some of the currently unvaccinated to get vaccinated and, hopefully, reduce the strain on our already inadequate healthcare system.

Canada has fewer acute care beds, and fewer physicians per capita than other nations with Universal healthcare.
The availability of medical resources is perhaps one of the most basic requirements for a properly functioning health-care system. Data suggests that Canada has substantially fewer human and capital medical resources than many peer jurisdictions that spend comparable amounts of money on health care. After adjustment for age, it has significantly fewer physicians, acute-care beds, and psychiatric beds per capita compared to the average of OECD countries included in the study (it ranks close to the average for nurses). While Canada has the second most Gamma cameras (per million population, age-adjusted), it has fewer other medical technologies than the average high-income OECD country with universal health care for which comparable inventory data are available.
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies ... tries-2019

We know that Canada’s hospitals were short acute care beds even BEFORE the Pandemic. Patients on gurneys in hallways has been an issue for years. So we shouldn’t be surprised when a relatively small number of the population being hospitalized with Covid quickly overwhelms the system.

Short term, vaccine passports may be the only solution. But long term, we still need to address the shortage of both acute care beds and physicians.
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WESTman
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by WESTman »

We know that Canada’s hospitals were short acute care beds even BEFORE the Pandemic. Patients on gurneys in hallways has been an issue for years. So we shouldn’t be surprised when a relatively small number of the population being hospitalized with Covid quickly overwhelms the system.
Hmmm and in 18 months they've done absolutely nothing, while at the same time printing up billions like its nothing. Maybe the people in government know that this virus ain't as big a threat as we're being told?
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sarahfromkelowna
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by sarahfromkelowna »

I agree with everything you said, Merry.
But long term, we still need to address the shortage of both acute care beds and physicians.
I think we need to have an external audit of our healthcare management, so that we know why they haven't increased hospital capacity during a pandemic.
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Merry
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by Merry »

WESTman wrote: Sep 4th, 2021, 12:10 pm
We know that Canada’s hospitals were short acute care beds even BEFORE the Pandemic. Patients on gurneys in hallways has been an issue for years. So we shouldn’t be surprised when a relatively small number of the population being hospitalized with Covid quickly overwhelms the system.
Hmmm and in 18 months they've done absolutely nothing, while at the same time printing up billions like its nothing. Maybe the people in government know that this virus ain't as big a threat as we're being told?
Oh, it’s a threat alright. But Government inaction, or lack of appropriate action, in the face of threats is nothing new.

Think back to the Government reluctance to restrict travel from Wuhan when this virus was first identified. And the slow pace at which vaccines were initially procured.

Inadequate Government response to identified threats is nothing new.
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foenix
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by foenix »

Merry wrote: Sep 4th, 2021, 12:00 pm
sarahfromkelowna wrote: Sep 4th, 2021, 11:15 am
Vaccinated individuals spread the virus just as readily as unvaccinated individuals: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21261387v1
And this is something more people need to understand.

Being vaccinated doesn’t prevent you catching and/or spreading Covid.

Being vaccinated merely lowers your odds of developing symptoms so severe you require hospitalization and/or die. But there’s still a chance you’ll end up hospitalized anyway, because the vaccines aren’t 100% effective.
Yes but a vaccinated person will also increase the odds of the immune system to fight off the infection to where the viral load is not enough to transmit to others.

Of course the vaccines aren't 100%, they never were even against the original strain which they targeted....but they do afford some protection against the Delta variant. That's why most of the people that are hospitalized and dying are mostly the unvaccinated because the have NO protection against the Delta. Checkout places like Florida where they are having massive death surges and the death stats are even worse than before because this variant seems much more deadlier than the original strain.

Thank goodness for our government that had the foresight to listen to our experts, heeded their advise and became a leader in vaccinations given to their people. I'm sure without those vaccines complience, we would be looking at similar results like some places in the States.
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nucksRnum1
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by nucksRnum1 »

I don't feel divided at all. I'm on the right side of history. While the anti-everything is dropping like flies.
sarahfromkelowna
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by sarahfromkelowna »

the anti-everything is dropping like flies.
. That's interesting. Why do you say that? Last I checked, there were only 677 people under the age of 80 who have died from Covid in B.C. I wouldn't exactly call that 'dropping like flies'.

Why do you think Florida is doing poorly? In Florida everyone already has access to the vaccine. Compared to places like New York and California they have a very low death rate...?
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fluffy
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by fluffy »

With the overabundance of misinformation available on this topic it's a good idea to treat any new submissions with some skepticism, especially when warning bells go off from the start as they did when I read the original post.

1.) MedrXiv is a "Preprint" server. Their home page carries this warning:

"Caution: Preprints are preliminary reports of work that have not been certified by peer review. They should not be relied on to guide clinical practice or health-related behavior and should not be reported in news media as established information."

2.) A "paraphrased" quote is no longer a quote, it becomes an avenue for injecting a personal opinion into what someone else has said and as such it is a potential source of misinformation. Why not just supply the original quote ?

3.) The simple fact that the thread title and the content of the opening post bear little resemblance to each other is reason enough for me to cast this aside as highly suspect.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
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GordonH
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by GordonH »

People I guess haven’t gotten it, like I have said early last year... sooner or later everyone will get covid-19, with or without a vaccine shot.
It all depends how many will end up in the ICU and those who get sick and recover quickly.

impo everyone should get a oximeter (btw this is towards those without breathing issues) they run about $50 +/-. If oxygen level starts dropping below 94% and continues to drop make your way to hospital. Healthy oxygen levels are usually above 94 to 100%.

Again this is for those who currently don’t have any breathing issues i.e copd.
Come on Supreme Court of Canada step up and do Your Job.

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sarahfromkelowna
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by sarahfromkelowna »

2.) A "paraphrased" quote is no longer a quote, it becomes an avenue for injecting a personal opinion into what someone else has said and as such it is a potential source of misinformation. Why not just supply the original quote ?
. lol. I feel like this entire post went right over some peoples heads. That's okay : P I hope you have a good day!
sooner or later everyone will get covid-19, with or without a vaccine shot.
Yup. That seems to be the general idea in the community. We're all going to get it. That makes it extremely frustrating that our government has done nothing to prepare our hospitals. I can't understand how people are falling for this song and dance ""don't look at us, the people who ran your hospitals into the ground during a pandemic, instead fight with your neighbour who is some random yoga instructor who doesn't trust Western medicine.""
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fluffy
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by fluffy »

sarahfromkelowna wrote: Sep 5th, 2021, 7:49 am I feel like this entire post went right over some peoples heads.
Not really, the way it was presented raised a spectre of distorted facts, although I may be wrong. If you were to post the original quotes that you paraphrased then everyone could decide for themselves.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
sarahfromkelowna
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by sarahfromkelowna »

f you were to post the original quotes that you paraphrased then everyone could decide for themselves.
There is no original quote. I am trying to draw people's attention to the deflection of blame that going on. It's humour.
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by foenix »

sarahfromkelowna wrote: Sep 4th, 2021, 11:44 pm
the anti-everything is dropping like flies.
. That's interesting. Why do you say that? Last I checked, there were only 677 people under the age of 80 who have died from Covid in B.C. I wouldn't exactly call that 'dropping like flies'.

Why do you think Florida is doing poorly? In Florida everyone already has access to the vaccine. Compared to places like New York and California they have a very low death rate...?
Oh you mean like this unfortunate stat from the US........


U.S. COVID Deaths Are Rising Again. Experts Call It A 'Pandemic Of The Unvaccinated'
The upward trend in national statistics is being driven almost entirely by outbreaks in places with low vaccination rates, such as the Ozarks, Florida and parts of the Mountain West. Some counties, especially in Missouri and Arkansas, are recording more cases now than they did during the winter.

"Unvaccinated Americans account for virtually all recent COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths," said Jeff Zients, the White House COVID-19 response coordinator. "Each COVID-19 death is tragic, and those happening now are even more tragic because they are preventable."

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/10170029 ... vaccinated
sarahfromkelowna
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by sarahfromkelowna »

In Florida anyone can get the vaccine... I don't know what you're arguing here? The vaccine reduces hospitalization and death. Do we all agree on that? The vaccine doesn't prevent you from spreading the virus. Do we all agree on that? Let's find out where we diverge.

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