Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

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fluffy
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by fluffy »

two wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 12:08 pm Here is some FACTS worth noting:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/0 ... e-s03.html .
There is dozens of such information regarding the spread coming out globally that basically show the vaccination hardly stops the spread. Mandates are ridicules, education and informed consent is the only path forward without losing our humanity. Is it not obvious to you that the MSM is one sided and not a debate at all but a PR brainwashing machine ?
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local ... 51373.html

Some additional information in the link above:
In the first week of classes, 304 undergraduates, 45 graduate students and 15 employees tested positive for COVID-19. All but eight of these individuals were vaccinated, and the vast majority of them are asymptomatic. A small number have minor, cold- and flu-like symptoms, and none have been hospitalized, according to the university.
Duke University boasts a student population of over 30,000, with an additonal 5000 in staff. That puts the percentage of infections in perspective. 97% of hospitalized cases in North Carolina have been the Delta variant, shown to be more resistant to the vaccines. Perhaps most important is the statement that none of the cases at Duke U. have resulted in hospitalization which shows the truth that the vaccines work to prevent serious cases.
The best thing we can collectively do now is distrust our leaders...
That is called anarchy.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
two
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by two »

fluffy wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 12:47 pm
two wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 12:08 pm Here is some FACTS worth noting:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/0 ... e-s03.html .
There is dozens of such information regarding the spread coming out globally that basically show the vaccination hardly stops the spread. Mandates are ridicules, education and informed consent is the only path forward without losing our humanity. Is it not obvious to you that the MSM is one sided and not a debate at all but a PR brainwashing machine ?
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local ... 51373.html

Some additional information in the link above:
In the first week of classes, 304 undergraduates, 45 graduate students and 15 employees tested positive for COVID-19. All but eight of these individuals were vaccinated, and the vast majority of them are asymptomatic. A small number have minor, cold- and flu-like symptoms, and none have been hospitalized, according to the university.
Duke University boasts a student population of over 30,000, with an additonal 5000 in staff. That puts the percentage of infections in perspective. 97% of hospitalized cases in North Carolina have been the Delta variant, shown to be more resistant to the vaccines. Perhaps most important is the statement that none of the cases at Duke U. have resulted in hospitalization which shows the truth that the vaccines work to prevent serious cases.
The best thing we can collectively do now is distrust our leaders...
That is called anarchy.
Anarchy is not a great system, but it is one that exists sometimes when changing from government structures.
Also you are wrong that it means anarchy its called healthy democracy trying to heal itself.

I do not claim that anarchy is needed here either, I suggest we reorganize these problems and collectively become more aware with one another and take back our government with democracy. All while using more grass roots forms of informing ourselves without the seed of MSM since its been so corrupted.

I am not anti government since it has all sorts of great working parts, our constitutional representative democracy is metaphorically a great ship that needs our attention, restoration, and upkeep . It is the pirates that are running the ship right now that need be identified and kicked off... They have been bought and paid for and are to spineless to face what is good for the commons.

This is what I purpose. Not anarchy but thanks for presuming the worst.

Also you nailed my presumptions dead on.. did you even read my entire statement before?... :( this is a sad state of affairs.
Last edited by two on Sep 13th, 2021, 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
foenix
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by foenix »

two wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 1:13 pm
I am not anti government since it has all sorts of great working parts, our constitutional representative democracy is metaphorically a great ship that needs our attention, restoration, and upkeep . It is the pirates that are running the ship right now that need be identified and kicked off... They have been bought and paid for and are to spineless to face what is good for the commons.
Here's what I think is the problem with the paragraph......

politicians = pirates

......so there will always be pirates running our great ship, imo, of course.
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Rejigger
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by Rejigger »

foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 12:13 pm
Rejigger wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 12:12 pm
That's neither what the poster wrote about when he used the term "dolts", nor was it what I was responding to. He/she didn't mention hospitalizations in the quoted text.
Ok, I'm saying it then.
Alright, that's fine. Facts are facts. *shrug*

From the CDC (BC) website:
http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/disease ... tionreport

"By week 34, the single-dose vaccination coverage in eligible 12+ year-olds was at 84%, and 76% were fully vaccinated"

By week 34, 76% of eligible 12+ year-olds were fully vaccinated. I suppose we should see a significant drop in hospitalized cases then? Unless the vaccines have worn off? Actually, data* is showing that the vaccines only last a few months, so that explains why hospitalizations are on the rise. I'll ask again, why the vaxports, then?

Hospitalizations and deaths:
...
BC covid stats to Aug 28 '21 (week 34).JPG
...

Also of interest, sources of covid spread:
...
BC covid stats by source to Aug 28 '21 (week 34).JPG
...

From the CDC (US) website FAQ page:

How long does protection from a COVID-19 vaccine last?

We don’t know how long protection lasts for those who are vaccinated**. What we do know is that COVID-19 has caused very serious illness and death for a lot of people. If you get COVID-19, you also risk giving it to loved ones who may get very sick.

People with moderately to severely compromised immune systems should receive an additional dose of mRNA COVID-19 vaccine after the initial 2 doses.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... s/faq.html

[sarcasm] **Yeah, sure they don't know. [/sarcasm] *eyeroll*
...
Unfortunately, the CDC doesn't want to discuss how the vaccines effectiveness wanes after a few months. But here's this*...

COVID vaccine protection wanes within six months - UK researchers (Pfizer and Astra-Zeneca vaccines)
https://www.reuters.com/business/health ... 021-08-25/

~
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Last edited by Rejigger on Sep 13th, 2021, 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
two
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by two »

foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 1:31 pm
two wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 1:13 pm
I am not anti government since it has all sorts of great working parts, our constitutional representative democracy is metaphorically a great ship that needs our attention, restoration, and upkeep . It is the pirates that are running the ship right now that need be identified and kicked off... They have been bought and paid for and are to spineless to face what is good for the commons.
Here's what I think is the problem with the paragraph......

politicians = pirates

......so there will always be pirates running our great ship, imo, of course.

There have been many great, trustworthy politicians in history.. identifying them all as just a large group of idiots is wrong even though it is often mostly true. They are individuals.
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by Septuagenarian »

"The great pirates," from, Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth, by R. Buckminster Fuller. The problem is now they're in charge of our, 'intelligence.'
foenix
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by foenix »

Rejigger wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 1:32 pm
foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 12:13 pm

Ok, I'm saying it then.
Alright, that's fine. Facts are facts. *shrug*

From the CDC (BC) website:
http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/disease ... tionreport

"By week 34, the single-dose vaccination coverage in eligible 12+ year-olds was at 84%, and 76% were fully vaccinated"

By week 34, 76% of eligible 12+ year-olds were fully vaccinated. I suppose we should see a significant drop in hospitalized cases then? Unless the vaccines have worn off? Actually, data* is showing that the vaccines only last a few months, so that explains why hospitalizations are on the rise. I'll ask again, why the vaxports, then?

Hospitalizations and deaths:
...
BC covid stats to Aug 28 '21 (week 34).JPG
...

Also of interest, sources of covid spread:
...
BC covid stats by source to Aug 28 '21 (week 34).JPG
...

From the CDC (US) website FAQ page:

How long does protection from a COVID-19 vaccine last?

We don’t know how long protection lasts for those who are vaccinated**. What we do know is that COVID-19 has caused very serious illness and death for a lot of people. If you get COVID-19, you also risk giving it to loved ones who may get very sick.

People with moderately to severely compromised immune systems should receive an additional dose of mRNA COVID-19 vaccine after the initial 2 doses.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... s/faq.html

[sarcasm] **Yeah, sure they don't know. [/sarcasm] *eyeroll*
...
Unfortunately, the CDC doesn't want to discuss how the vaccines effectiveness wanes after a few months. But here's this*...

COVID vaccine protection wanes within six months - UK researchers (Pfizer and Astra-Zeneca vaccines)
https://www.reuters.com/business/health ... 021-08-25/

~
Those are just smoke screens, ask yourself this then, why are the majority of the hospitalized and deaths in Canada and the US right now are the unvaxxed? That's the real life bottom line, no?
two
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by two »

foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 1:41 pm
Rejigger wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 1:32 pm
Alright, that's fine. Facts are facts. *shrug*

From the CDC (BC) website:
http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/disease ... tionreport

"By week 34, the single-dose vaccination coverage in eligible 12+ year-olds was at 84%, and 76% were fully vaccinated"

By week 34, 76% of eligible 12+ year-olds were fully vaccinated. I suppose we should see a significant drop in hospitalized cases then? Unless the vaccines have worn off? Actually, data* is showing that the vaccines only last a few months, so that explains why hospitalizations are on the rise. I'll ask again, why the vaxports, then?

Hospitalizations and deaths:
...
BC covid stats to Aug 28 '21 (week 34).JPG
...

Also of interest, sources of covid spread:
...
BC covid stats by source to Aug 28 '21 (week 34).JPG
...

From the CDC (US) website FAQ page:

How long does protection from a COVID-19 vaccine last?

We don’t know how long protection lasts for those who are vaccinated**. What we do know is that COVID-19 has caused very serious illness and death for a lot of people. If you get COVID-19, you also risk giving it to loved ones who may get very sick.

People with moderately to severely compromised immune systems should receive an additional dose of mRNA COVID-19 vaccine after the initial 2 doses.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... s/faq.html

[sarcasm] **Yeah, sure they don't know. [/sarcasm] *eyeroll*
...
Unfortunately, the CDC doesn't want to discuss how the vaccines effectiveness wanes after a few months. But here's this*...

COVID vaccine protection wanes within six months - UK researchers (Pfizer and Astra-Zeneca vaccines)
https://www.reuters.com/business/health ... 021-08-25/

~
Those are just smoke screens, ask yourself this then, why are the majority of the hospitalized and deaths in Canada and the US are the unvaxxed? That's the real life bottom line, no?

I would answer 2 fold..

1. they work at preventing serious conditions when it has been caught

2. Healthy people still generally do not get hospitalized and that way of thinking is fear mongering when it should just be informing those who are at higher risk it's a good idea.
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fluffy
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by fluffy »

two wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 1:13 pm...I suggest we reorganize these problems and collectively become more aware with one another and take back our government with democracy. All while using more grass roots forms of informing ourselves without the seed of MSM since its been so corrupted.
Just how we inform ourselves is of paramount importance these days, and truly one of the biggest challenges. First and foremost is determining the credibility of a source, and not just hop on board because they're saying something that fits your mood.

The vaccine debate is an excellent example. People will glom on to some little tidbit of information from an unvetted and unknown source because it supports their preconceived notion that they're the victim of some massive conspiracy, all the while ignoring the evidence that is before their own eyes. An easy conclusion to draw is that because most hospitalized cases by far are unvaccinated people it's safe to conclude that the vaccines are effective in that they reduce the severity of infection. Isn't that important ? Reduce the load on hospitals suffering from staff shortages and reducing the instances of serious health issue and death ? It's not a black and white situation, it's about doing our best to deal with a constantly evolving situation. Sowing distrust in government and our health professionals accomplishes nothing but slowing down progress against the virus.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
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Rejigger
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by Rejigger »

foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 1:41 pm Those are just smoke screens, ...
???Smoke screens??? That's cold hard data from government websites, governments who are imposing the vaxports. The very government you are, in essence, defending for enforcing its will.
...ask yourself this then, why are the majority of the hospitalized and deaths in Canada and the US right now are the unvaxxed? That's the real life bottom line, no?
No, it's not the real bottom line. Why are you dismissing the facts from CDC websites? Even the BCCDC website cautions against focusing on percentages, suggesting that we need to look at actual case numbers in conjunction with all other factors. See two's response above^^

Have you taken a vaccine that prevents you from acknowledging facts? 'Cause it sure seems like you have. lol
~
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by foenix »

two wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 1:45 pm
I would answer 2 fold..

1. they work at preventing serious conditions when it has been caught

2. Healthy people still generally do not get hospitalized and that way of thinking is fear mongering when it should just be informing those who are at higher risk it's a good idea.
Whaaat?...... for #1. That makes no sense.

I haven't seen the latest demographic/comobilty data for the unvaxxed that's being hospitalized and dying in Canada and the US due to the Delta variant so I'm not going to comment on that. Generally, the unvaxxed that are being hospialitalized and dying now are getting younger and younger. Unlike before, a lot of kids are being hospialitalized now.

Besides, if one thinks being "healthy" is better protection against hospitalization and death due to
the Delta variant than vaccines, then I would say that's a false sense of security just looking at the Covid situation now.
Last edited by foenix on Sep 13th, 2021, 2:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by foenix »

Rejigger wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 2:08 pm
foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 1:41 pm Those are just smoke screens, ...
???Smoke screens??? That's cold hard data from government websites, governments who are imposing the vaxports. The very government you are, in essence, defending for enforcing its will.
...ask yourself this then, why are the majority of the hospitalized and deaths in Canada and the US right now are the unvaxxed? That's the real life bottom line, no?
No, it's not the real bottom line. Why are you dismissing the facts from CDC websites? Even the BCCDC website cautions against focusing on percentages, suggesting that we need to look at actual case numbers in conjunction with all other factors. See two's response above^^

Have you taken a vaccine that prevents you from acknowledging facts? 'Cause it sure seems like you have. lol
~
Yeah, those are smoke screens relative to who are being hospitalized and dying right now. The vast majority of them are the unvaxxed so one can throw all the data about how ineffective the vaccines are against the Delta but look at who's dying and being hospitalized......the UNVAXXED. That's called real life data in which the vaccinated are being mostly protected against hospitalizations and death in comparison to the unvaxxed. Those are the FACTS.
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by two »

foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 2:18 pm
two wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 1:45 pm
I would answer 2 fold..

1. they work at preventing serious conditions when it has been caught

2. Healthy people still generally do not get hospitalized and that way of thinking is fear mongering when it should just be informing those who are at higher risk it's a good idea.
Whaaat?...... for #1. That makes no sense.

I haven't seen the latest demographic/comobilty data for the unvaxxed that's being hospitalized and dying in Canada and the US due to the Delta variant so I'm not going to comment on that. Generally, the unvaxxed that are being hospialitalized and dying now are getting younger and younger. Unlike before, a lot of kids are being hospialitalized now.

Besides, if one thinks being "healthy" is better protection against hospitalization and death due to
the Delta variant, I would say that's a false sense of security just looking at the Covid situation now.
sorry if 1 didnt make sense to you.
the problem was in the intial word " 1. they " they meaning vaccines.

let me break it down more descriptively.

1. if you catch covid, while being vaccinated, you are less likely to have serious conditions.

2. older people, obese people and immune compromised are far more likely to have serious(hospitalizing) conditions then healthy young people.. even with delta.

is that easier to understand and agree/disagree with now ?
Last edited by two on Sep 13th, 2021, 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fluffy
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by fluffy »

Rejigger wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 2:08 pm Even the BCCDC website cautions against focusing on percentages, suggesting that we need to look at actual case numbers in conjunction with all other factors.
Not to make percentages our only focus, but they are certainly not saying we should ignore them. The biggest single percentage supporting vaccines is that the majority of hospitalizations are from unvaccinated people. Two's post earlier with reference to the outbreak at Duke University in North Carolina had a link that said while the majority of cases were among vaccinated people none of them required hospitalization. In North Carolina right now just about all of the cases they are dealing with are the Delta variant, much more transmissable and responsible for most of the breakthrough cases currently, but still hospitalization numbers are way lower for vaccinated people.

Edited to add: What would be interesting to track is the ratio of total cases to those requiring hospitalization as the vaccination program progressed in BC.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
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Rejigger
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by Rejigger »

foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 2:25 pm
Rejigger wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 2:08 pm
???Smoke screens??? That's cold hard data from government websites, governments who are imposing the vaxports. The very government you are, in essence, defending for enforcing its will.
Yeah, those are smoke screens relative to who are being hospitalized and dying right now. ...[snip]... Those are the FACTS.
Well, you'll need to take it up with Bonnie Henry, Adrian Dix, et al. They're the ones who've posted the data on the BCCDC website - the data that I quoted directly.

Maybe you need to school them?

Just remember your above posts when you're complaining about all those unvaxxed who aren't believing to the experts. You, also, aren't believing the data put out by the experts.
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