Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

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foenix
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by foenix »

two wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 2:27 pm
foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 2:18 pm

Whaaat?...... for #1. That makes no sense.

I haven't seen the latest demographic/comobilty data for the unvaxxed that's being hospitalized and dying in Canada and the US due to the Delta variant so I'm not going to comment on that. Generally, the unvaxxed that are being hospialitalized and dying now are getting younger and younger. Unlike before, a lot of kids are being hospialitalized now.

Besides, if one thinks being "healthy" is better protection against hospitalization and death due to
the Delta variant, I would say that's a false sense of security just looking at the Covid situation now.
sorry if 1 didnt make sense to you.
the problem was in the intial word " 1. they " they meaning vaccines.

let me break it down more descriptively.

1. if you catch covid, while being vaccinated, you are less likely to have serious conditions.

2. older people, obese people and immune compromised are far more likely to have serious(hospitalizing) conditions then healthy young people.. even with delta.

is that easier to understand and agree/disagree with now ?
It would have been waaaay easier to understand if you wrote that in the first place.

Yes I agree with both statements but here's the problem right now..........

Unvaccinated 29 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19, CDC study says

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/5 ... vid-19-cdc

97% Of People Entering Hospitals For COVID-19 Are Unvaccinated

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/10170128 ... vaccinated

100 per cent of COVID-related ICU admissions in last 30 days were unvaccinated

https://www.kitchenertoday.com/coronavi ... oh-4303249
foenix
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by foenix »

Rejigger wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 2:39 pm
foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 2:25 pm

Yeah, those are smoke screens relative to who are being hospitalized and dying right now. ...[snip]... Those are the FACTS.
Well, you'll need to take it up with Bonnie Henry, Adrian Dix, et al. They're the ones who've posted the data on the BCCDC website - the data that I quoted directly.

Maybe you need to school them?

Just remember your above posts when you're complaining about all those unvaxxed who aren't believing to the experts. You, also, aren't believing the data put out by the experts.
~
I'm not disputing their data, I'm just calling out that it's being used as smoke screens in this discussion as to who are in the hospitals and dying because that would be the unvaxxed, having NO protection against the Delta variant.

Even two agrees....point #1
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Rejigger
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by Rejigger »

foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 2:52 pm Even two agrees....point #1
Not that 'two' is an authority on anything, unlike the BCCDC.

But nonetheless, I agreed with 'two' also (and btw, I understood his/her post without needing it to be re-written). Hence this part of my earlier post...
Rejigger wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 2:08 pm ...[snip]... See two's response above^^ ...[snip]...
Selective reading, perhaps?
~
foenix
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by foenix »

Rejigger wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 3:05 pm
foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 2:52 pm Even two agrees....point #1
Not that 'two' is an authority on anything, unlike the BCCDC.

But nonetheless, I agreed with 'two' also (and btw, I understood his/her post without needing it to be re-written). Hence this part of my earlier post...
Rejigger wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 2:08 pm ...[snip]... See two's response above^^ ...[snip]...
Selective reading, perhaps?
~
What are you writing about and who has the selective memory.....here's what was posted......
if one has access and dont get the jabs then yeah, considering what is going on in the States and here as the hospitalizations and deaths are mostly from the unvaxxed, then that's ignoring what's going on and therefore "dolts"
.....then you went off on a different tangent about how ineffective the vaccines were against the Delta.....and if you agree with two's statement....
if you catch covid, while being vaccinated, you are less likely to have serious conditions.
Then I guess we are in agreement, the vaccines help the vaccinated from being hospitalized and dying.....is that what you meant by agreeing with two? :biggrin:
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by Rejigger »

foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 3:17 pm
Rejigger wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 3:05 pm Selective reading, perhaps?
What are you writing about and who has the selective memory.....here's what was posted......
Well that answers that question.

LOL!
~
foenix
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by foenix »

Rejigger wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 3:22 pm
foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 3:17 pm

What are you writing about and who has the selective memory.....here's what was posted......
Well that answers that question.

LOL!
~
Got me there [icon_lol2.gif] ........but look like you're in agreement about the vaccinated having less serious problems than the unvaxxed from a Covid infection so I'm glad we had this discussion. :D
gad710
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by gad710 »

foenix wrote: Sep 5th, 2021, 10:36 am
sarahfromkelowna wrote: Sep 4th, 2021, 11:44 pm . That's interesting. Why do you say that? Last I checked, there were only 677 people under the age of 80 who have died from Covid in B.C. I wouldn't exactly call that 'dropping like flies'.

Why do you think Florida is doing poorly? In Florida everyone already has access to the vaccine. Compared to places like New York and California they have a very low death rate...?
Oh you mean like this unfortunate stat from the US........


U.S. COVID Deaths Are Rising Again. Experts Call It A 'Pandemic Of The Unvaccinated'
The upward trend in national statistics is being driven almost entirely by outbreaks in places with low vaccination rates, such as the Ozarks, Florida and parts of the Mountain West. Some counties, especially in Missouri and Arkansas, are recording more cases now than they did during the winter.

"Unvaccinated Americans account for virtually all recent COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths," said Jeff Zients, the White House COVID-19 response coordinator. "Each COVID-19 death is tragic, and those happening now are even more tragic because they are preventable."

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/10170029 ... vaccinated
Um you cite an NPR article, so that's pretty lame. It also sounds a lot like what our health officials tells us, same ole fear driven message. Again pitting one against the other.

I know for myself one of the biggest "elephants in the room" is, why are none of our esteemed health care professionals discussing natural immunity? It seems to me personally, that a responsible government would be testing for natural antibodies and allowing for the millions of us that have them. Then working on providing a "therapy (you cant call it a vaccine)" for the rest that are compromised.

Instead, they spend billions upon billions and destroy the fabric of our country pitting one Canadian against the other. Why hide facts like India's success with Ivermectin? Why hide/not report all the information out of Israel? It took months for CBC to publish anything about Israel's current situation, and the jist I got from the article they final posted was lockdowns should have been longer! They have an 85% "therapy" rate for everyone 16 and older in Israel, and over 60% of the covid paitents are double "therapy'd".

Something stinks, they know natural immunity is better than anything, yet they are trying to force an experimental therapy down everyone's throats. Until our government does something I can trust and have belief in, this is all a big money & control grab.

Live in fear if you want too, I choose too not. "Therapy" passports are going to do nothing other than destroy small businesses, and pit us against each other. All of this for a virus with a 99+% survival rate, and don't get me going on "therapying" our children that's just plain wrong, for crying out loud we don't even know what the long term side effects are.
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Rejigger
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by Rejigger »

foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 3:17 pm .....then you went off on a different tangent about how ineffective the vaccines were against the Delta.....and if you agree with two's statement....
if you catch covid, while being vaccinated, you are less likely to have serious conditions.
Then I guess we are in agreement, the vaccines help the vaccinated from being hospitalized and dying.....is that what you meant by agreeing with two? :biggrin:
Yes, that's ALL the vaccine does - it keeps one out of hospital* - and only for the few months that the vax offers protection.

*except for the elderly and those with co-morbidities, in which case, good luck!

I wasn't off on a tangent. I was showing the facts of how the vaccines lose efficacy in a few short months. Those who received vaccines prior to May of this year are quite possibly relying solely on their own natural immune systems to fight off the virus, and they would be full-on spreading it around to boot (no minimization of viral shed due to having the vaccine). All other vaccinated folk are in some varying degree of a combination vaccine protection and natural immunity due to loss of efficacy.

We cannot hang our hats on this vaccine. Let's stop blaming the unvaxxed for all of our ills.
We may all be considered the equivalent of 'unvaxxed' soon enough.

I wish the government/health experts would start publishing results of TITRE TESTS so that we can stop hating each other already. But they won't do that because they want the self-righteous vaxxed to be at the throats of the unvaxxed.

Meanwhile the (reportedly vaccine resistant) Mu variant is coming.

Please read my post with an open mind so that you can see what the argument is here. In short, I believe this battle is becoming seemingly quite futile very fast.

Caveat: I'm double vaxxed and I'm pro-healthcare (never thought 'pro-healthcare' would ever be a "thing").
~
foenix
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by foenix »

gad710 wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 3:38 pm
foenix wrote: Sep 5th, 2021, 10:36 am

Oh you mean like this unfortunate stat from the US........


U.S. COVID Deaths Are Rising Again. Experts Call It A 'Pandemic Of The Unvaccinated'




https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/10170029 ... vaccinated
Um you cite an NPR article, so that's pretty lame. It also sounds a lot like what our health officials tells us, same ole fear driven message. Again pitting one against the other.

I know for myself one of the biggest "elephants in the room" is, why are none of our esteemed health care professionals discussing natural immunity? It seems to me personally, that a responsible government would be testing for natural antibodies and allowing for the millions of us that have them. Then working on providing a "therapy (you cant call it a vaccine)" for the rest that are compromised.

Instead, they spend billions upon billions and destroy the fabric of our country pitting one Canadian against the other. Why hide facts like India's success with Ivermectin? Why hide/not report all the information out of Israel? It took months for CBC to publish anything about Israel's current situation, and the jist I got from the article they final posted was lockdowns should have been longer! They have an 85% "therapy" rate for everyone 16 and older in Israel, and over 60% of the covid paitents are double "therapy'd".

Something stinks, they know natural immunity is better than anything, yet they are trying to force an experimental therapy down everyone's throats. Until our government does something I can trust and have belief in, this is all a big money & control grab.

Live in fear if you want too, I choose too not. "Therapy" passports are going to do nothing other than destroy small businesses, and pit us against each other. All of this for a virus with a 99+% survival rate, and don't get me going on "therapying" our children that's just plain wrong, for crying out loud we don't even know what the long term side effects are.
Doesn't matter if it's NPR article or not, the content will be the same from other sources if you're writing about the increase in hospitalizations and death currently are from the unvaxxed.

I've wrote about this before but here's the problem with natural acquired immunity sans vaccines and no mutations. To achieve herd immunity based on natural acquired immunity, the estimates are that between 60 to 70%of the population needs to be infected with Covid. If the kill ratio of Covid is between 1 to 3% based on when the study was done, thousands of Canadians would have to die before we had a semblance of herd immunity.....here's the math using 65% and 1.5% kill ratio......

37,590,000 X 0.65 = 24,433,500

24,433,500 X .015 = 366,503

So basically to achieve 65% of our population acquiring immunity to the alpha strain of Covid, we would have 366, 503 Canadian dying using the 1.5% kill ratio. Since our current Covid deaths is at 27,229, we would have to have over 10 times the death to even get at 65% herd immunity........see the problem?
gad710
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by gad710 »

Rejigger wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 3:44 pm
foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 3:17 pm .....then you went off on a different tangent about how ineffective the vaccines were against the Delta.....and if you agree with two's statement....



Then I guess we are in agreement, the vaccines help the vaccinated from being hospitalized and dying.....is that what you meant by agreeing with two? :biggrin:
Yes, that's ALL the vaccine does - it keeps one out of hospital* - and only for the few months that the vax offers protection.

*except for the elderly and those with co-morbidities, in which case, good luck!

I wasn't off on a tangent. I was showing the facts of how the vaccines lose efficacy in a few short months. Those who received vaccines prior to May of this year are quite possibly relying solely on their own natural immune systems to fight off the virus, and they would be full-on spreading it around to boot (no minimization of viral shed due to having the vaccine). All other vaccinated folk are in some varying degree of a combination vaccine protection and natural immunity due to loss of efficacy.

We cannot hang our hats on this vaccine. Let's stop blaming the unvaxxed for all of our ills.
We may all be considered the equivalent of 'unvaxxed' soon enough.

I wish the government/health experts would start publishing results of TITRE TESTS so that we can stop hating each other already. But they won't do that because they want the self-righteous vaxxed to be at the throats of the unvaxxed.

Meanwhile the (reportedly vaccine resistant) Mu variant is coming.

Please read my post with an open mind so that you can see what the argument is here. In short, I believe this battle is becoming seemingly quite futile very fast.

Caveat: I'm double vaxxed and I'm pro-healthcare (never thought 'pro-healthcare' would ever be a "thing").
~
Great post. There was a point in time where pro-healthcare wasn't a thing, as we TRUSTED our government. Sadly I think those days are gone.
foenix
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by foenix »

Rejigger wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 3:44 pm
foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 3:17 pm .....then you went off on a different tangent about how ineffective the vaccines were against the Delta.....and if you agree with two's statement....



Then I guess we are in agreement, the vaccines help the vaccinated from being hospitalized and dying.....is that what you meant by agreeing with two? :biggrin:
Yes, that's ALL the vaccine does - it keeps one out of hospital* - and only for the few months that the vax offers protection.

*except for the elderly and those with co-morbidities, in which case, good luck!

I wasn't off on a tangent. I was showing the facts of how the vaccines lose efficacy in a few short months. Those who received vaccines prior to May of this year are quite possibly relying solely on their own natural immune systems to fight off the virus, and they would be full-on spreading it around to boot (no minimization of viral shed due to having the vaccine). All other vaccinated folk are in some varying degree of a combination vaccine protection and natural immunity due to loss of efficacy.
~
It's obvious the vaccines are helping the vaccinated from winding up in the hospital and it's certainly longer than a few months or we wouldn't see lopsided real world data that says between 80 to 90% of the hospitalizations are from the unvaxxed. If the vaccines weren't effective after a few months then the stats would be closer to 50/50 and they're not.

Also, your getting natural acquired immunity and immunity from vaccines mixed up, they aren't the same.
Last edited by foenix on Sep 13th, 2021, 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rejigger
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by Rejigger »

gad710 wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 3:38 pm Um you cite an NPR article, so that's pretty lame. It also sounds a lot like what our health officials tells us, same ole fear driven message. Again pitting one against the other.

I know for myself one of the biggest "elephants in the room" is, why are none of our esteemed health care professionals discussing natural immunity? It seems to me personally, that a responsible government would be testing for natural antibodies and allowing for the millions of us that have them. [snip]...

Until our government does something I can trust and have belief in, this is all a big money & control grab. [snip]...
Let's not kid ourselves, the government knows what the titer numbers are. Why would they not know that, right?
I remember seeing reports, long before the vaccine was widely available in NA, of those who had been exposed to covid and showed antibodies in their systems for only a few months post-infection. The government now knows that the same holds true for vaccinated people.

As for your mention of treatments: Ivermectin has become the butt of jokes lately and Regeneron is never discussed. Yet Regeneron is one of the meds that pulled Trump back from the brink of death, along with other undisclosed medications/therapies, of which Ivermectin may have been one of them (who knows?).

I think you're being reasonable when you ask why we're vaccinating everyone (while the virus mutates faster) rather than treating only those who need treatment.

If the government was more transparent with the information, I think fewer people would be suspicious of the government.
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Rejigger
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by Rejigger »

foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 4:09 pm
Rejigger wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 3:44 pm I wasn't off on a tangent. I was showing the facts of how the vaccines lose efficacy in a few short months. Those who received vaccines prior to May of this year are quite possibly relying solely on their own natural immune systems to fight off the virus, and they would be full-on spreading it around to boot (no minimization of viral shed due to having the vaccine). All other vaccinated folk are in some varying degree of a combination vaccine protection and natural immunity due to loss of efficacy.
It's obvious the vaccines are helping the vaccinated from winding up in the hospital and it's certainly longer than a few months or we wouldn't see lopsided real world data that says between 80 to 90% of the hospitalizations are from the unvaxxed. If the vaccines weren't protecting after a few months then the stats would be closer to 50/50 and they're not.
In fact, last I checked, the stats out of Israel are showing that for hospitalized cases 60% are vaccinated and 40% are unvaxxed. It was 50/50 a couple of weeks ago. Again, though, the BCCDC website explains why percentages should not be used - and I agree, but am responding to your use of percentages.
foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 4:09 pm Also, your getting natural acquired immunity and immunity from vaccines mixed up, they aren't the same.
I stated them as two separate things ("a combination of"), so not sure why you suggest I said otherwise?
~
gad710
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by gad710 »

foenix wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 3:59 pm
gad710 wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 3:38 pm

Um you cite an NPR article, so that's pretty lame. It also sounds a lot like what our health officials tells us, same ole fear driven message. Again pitting one against the other.

I know for myself one of the biggest "elephants in the room" is, why are none of our esteemed health care professionals discussing natural immunity? It seems to me personally, that a responsible government would be testing for natural antibodies and allowing for the millions of us that have them. Then working on providing a "therapy (you cant call it a vaccine)" for the rest that are compromised.

Instead, they spend billions upon billions and destroy the fabric of our country pitting one Canadian against the other. Why hide facts like India's success with Ivermectin? Why hide/not report all the information out of Israel? It took months for CBC to publish anything about Israel's current situation, and the jist I got from the article they final posted was lockdowns should have been longer! They have an 85% "therapy" rate for everyone 16 and older in Israel, and over 60% of the covid paitents are double "therapy'd".

Something stinks, they know natural immunity is better than anything, yet they are trying to force an experimental therapy down everyone's throats. Until our government does something I can trust and have belief in, this is all a big money & control grab.

Live in fear if you want too, I choose too not. "Therapy" passports are going to do nothing other than destroy small businesses, and pit us against each other. All of this for a virus with a 99+% survival rate, and don't get me going on "therapying" our children that's just plain wrong, for crying out loud we don't even know what the long term side effects are.
Doesn't matter if it's NPR article or not, the content will be the same from other sources if you're writing about the increase in hospitalizations and death currently are from the unvaxxed.

I've wrote about this before but here's the problem with natural acquired immunity sans vaccines and no mutations. To achieve herd immunity based on natural acquired immunity, the estimates are that between 60 to 70%of the population needs to be infected with Covid. If the kill ratio of Covid is between 1 to 3% based on when the study was done, thousands of Canadians would have to die before we had a semblance of herd immunity.....here's the math using 65% and 1.5% kill ratio......

37,590,000 X 0.65 = 24,433,500

24,433,500 X .015 = 366,503

So basically to achieve 65% of our population acquiring immunity to the alpha strain of Covid, we would have 366, 503 Canadian dying using the 1.5% kill ratio. Since our current Covid deaths is at 27,229, we would have to have over 10 times the death to even get at 65% herd immunity........see the problem?
I expect nothing more from you, why not toss up the actual study's that show a 1.5% death rate? Load of crap.
heres some current links you can try to refute:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ce=twitter
https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/boost-the-insanity
https://www.thedailybeast.com/ultra-vac ... to-america
https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz ... d-vaccines

Plus were not on alpha anymore, so your argument is moot. The facts as I see them is that more people are infected now since the "therapy" then ever. And to top it off, show me one study that proves that therapy keeps you out of hospitals more than your natural immunity. Quit being a talking head. Israels own health department had published facts on medrix, proving natural immunity is better. 1.5% death rate, puhlease.
gad710
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Re: Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

Post by gad710 »

Rejigger wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 4:22 pm
gad710 wrote: Sep 13th, 2021, 3:38 pm Um you cite an NPR article, so that's pretty lame. It also sounds a lot like what our health officials tells us, same ole fear driven message. Again pitting one against the other.

I know for myself one of the biggest "elephants in the room" is, why are none of our esteemed health care professionals discussing natural immunity? It seems to me personally, that a responsible government would be testing for natural antibodies and allowing for the millions of us that have them. [snip]...

Until our government does something I can trust and have belief in, this is all a big money & control grab. [snip]...
Let's not kid ourselves, the government knows what the titer numbers are. Why would they not know that, right?
I remember seeing reports, long before the vaccine was widely available in NA, of those who had been exposed to covid and showed antibodies in their systems for only a few months post-infection. The government now knows that the same holds true for vaccinated people.

As for your mention of treatments: Ivermectin has become the butt of jokes lately and Regeneron is never discussed. Yet Regeneron is one of the meds that pulled Trump back from the brink of death, along with other undisclosed medications/therapies, of which Ivermectin may have been one of them (who knows?).

I think you're being reasonable when you ask why we're vaccinating everyone (while the virus mutates faster) rather than treating only those who need treatment.

If the government was more transparent with the information, I think fewer people would be suspicious of the government.
I totally agree with your post, hopefully more Canadians will wake up. Something Stinks.

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