Jason Rock - Council Candidate

strikes&gutters
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Re: Jason Rock - Council Candidate

Post by strikes&gutters »

Exactly, CarMa. Inaccurate stats drive me nuts.

Like Dion's Green Shift... sure the little calculator shows how much I will save. But it conveniently left out how much more things were going to cost due to carbon taxes, which would wipe out any savings.

Back to the topic at hand. Jason, you blatantly chose stats that at first glance appear to support your cause. However those stats only compared December 2006 to December 2005. A 1 month comparison is hardly fair, and if that's your idea of looking at the big picture...

I did look at the big picture. Using the link to the report you provided I looked at stats for the entire year. Every category related to crime was down, except for 33 more assaults and 32 sex offences, and from what I understand, most of that was due to the fact that it was the first year that Wakefest started to get out of control.

Overall the number of crimes decreased from 13,065 to 11,750 or just over 10%.


Plus you say in another post "I can guarantee you that in the last three years, everyone has had crime against them from a hit and run to personal property theft". Fortunately, I haven't nor has anyone in my family, nor have several of my friends. And I do truly feel for all the innocent victims of crime.

Fuzzying numbers to back up a false claim and speaking in generalities aren't good ways to attract my vote.
justice4U
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Re: Jason Rock - Council Candidate

Post by justice4U »

Sorry, Carma. It's not that only that Jason used statistics inappropriately. He is also wrong.

Jason tells us on his website that crime is rising. It clearly is not. He is either sadly misinformed or is simply saying what he thinks people want to hear.

Crime is down and Supt. McKinnon has stated so emphatically.

Wade Jenson
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CarMa
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Re: Jason Rock - Council Candidate

Post by CarMa »

Well, I can't use the stats that Jason has posted as a way to prove he is right or wrong because they are old and narrow.

I "googled" crime statistics for Kelowna in 2007 and I came up with a 2007 Central Okanagan Regional Report for crime and policing. The statistics compare 2007 with 2006. The violent crimes were up, property crimes were down, total criminal code offences were down, etc.

That report would give Jason and other candidates some very important information as it separates Kelowna from the Central Okanagan and provides statistics for the past 10 years.

The information is there for everyone to find. And they're official government-issued stats, just like Jason wants.
jason_rock
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Re: Jason Rock - Council Candidate

Post by jason_rock »

I admit there is a better report out there and Carma found it. This one gives the bigger picture:

http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/police_servic ... anagan.pdf

I appreciate everyones participation. Carma, your link was excellent. I never came across that well layed out report and I wonder why the city isn't using that report for their crime section of the website. So the summary is Assaults up 25% and Violent crime is up 20% is going up but other crime is slightly decreasing. I still say property crime nowadays is an unreported crime unless insurance is required.

Like I have said in the past, I go with the information that is presented and I don't mind being proven wrong or not having the whole story. And I definitly don't mind admitting it in the public eye. Now that we have better information, we now know what we have to focus on. The process that we just went through to get this information is a part of my character - work with everyone to get the right information in a public and transparent manner and then work together for a solution to the real problems.

Thanks again to Carma, Justice4U, and everyone else who particpated in this issue.

Jason Rock
strikes&gutters
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Re: Jason Rock - Council Candidate

Post by strikes&gutters »

jason_rock wrote:Like I have said in the past, I go with the information that is presented and I don't mind being proven wrong or not having the whole story.
Jason Rock


But Jason, even in the report that YOU provided and that YOU pulled stats from, it is obvious that crime was down in 2006. You simply hand-picked stats to back up your claim, which was misleading.

Plus, the fact you don't mind not having the whole story??? Sorry, you need to have the full story when you are making huge decisions that affect everyone in the city.
pupster457
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Re: Jason Rock - Council Candidate

Post by pupster457 »

Jason, I like what you say about crime. You are so right.So much crime doesn't even go reported. For all of you who trust the government statistics, you may want to realize that the RCMP brass like to report that crime is down. They are heavily in favor of gun control even though most rational people will agree that the gun control does not work. There are so many "saturday night specials" coming into the country it is unbelievable. This information comes directly from the freedom of information act that is forced to be provided for us citizens. I know an officer in town that is a constable and he readily admits that they are seeing crime increase at an unpresidented rate! Grow ops are increasing, run by organized crime rings. The biker gangs are running a lot of the city and gangs like the independent soldiers are trying to get their cut of the city too!
Then we have the liars,er lawyers that get people off of a criminal offense by some technicality. They know their client is guilty but "money is the root of all evil", and they make a killing off of guilty criminals. Wade Jensen, are you the same Wade Jensen that I see in the phone book under Lawyers as a criminal defense lawyer? If you are, how many people have you seen walk that you know are guilty?
You better believe crime is on the increase and will get a lot worse. I wonder how many of you people who believe that crime is on the decrease would walk downtown or through city park at 1:00 am or later? Think about it!
CMTJ
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Re: Jason Rock - Council Candidate

Post by CMTJ »

You are so right Jason, the emperor has no clothes, and Kelowna has crime and it is out of control. Anyone who believes that crime is down just because the police department says so should go out and talk to any small business owner that has to deal with crime and has stopped dealing with the police because they DO NOTHING!!!! we stopped even calling the police because even if you do catch a shoplifter and hold them for the police the shoplifter basically is told not to do it again and very rarely even gets a trip downtown. Citizens don't call the police either because nothing happens and the criminals are getting away with anything they want, it is out of control. Wade I hope you never have to deal with the police(unless of course you are one or related to one)if you are ever the victim of a crime hope it dosen't happen in the evening you will have to wait 5 days for the police officer to come back on duty,and it won't matter how bad the crime. Jason I do not know you, but you have my vote and you can bet that I will tell everyone I see that you seem to be someone who is aware of what is happening and wants to do something about it. Good on you and remember the people of Kelowna need someone who will stand up for what they believe in and say this isn't right.
pzp3d
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Re: Jason Rock - Council Candidate

Post by pzp3d »

Okay i had to read this whole crime report as well as everyones comments about how crime is down.

Personally I think the whole "crime is down" is a load of ...

I am living in a building which had ca. 5 break ins as well as 12 cars which have been vandalized and broken in to. This is a condo building in the upper mission. The police doesn't even come out even more even when there is proof for break and enter on the building doors. In the whole area around mission park we had more smash and grabs than we had ever before.

They happen during the night and now even during the days. I believe that violent crime is down whereas the petty crime seems to be way up. We live in a brand new building and yet have been hit 5 times in less than 11 months, and 12 cars being broken into as well as the first time the vehicle was stolen. More and more people here are not even reporting these offenses because the response is the same:

"Sorry was your car stolen? Did they break into your unit? No? Sorry we aren't coming out for that. What you have found traces fingerprints and foot prints? Sorry that isn't enough for us to come out."

The Police can only state in their reports what is reported to them.

I agree that the police should be taking care of big crime but at the same time when the normal citizen has to wake up in a condo building in the middle of the night because he worries about his property and well being... But give me a break crime is in no way down.

About jasons wrong statistics... well he based it on one month maybe... that doesn't make them wrong just incomplete in the big picture.

That being said Jason, applying for the position does require seeing the bigger picture, not just today or tomorrow... Planning needs to be in place for 10 years from now.

We have a history in Kelowna of planning for tomorrow and getting completely swamped with damage control for the actual happenings the day after. We need to get away from this silly thinking that constantly leaves our Infrastructure in disarray.

We need this city to be stable not only for tourists or developers but for the people who live here and that requires seeing the big picture.
Timi
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Re: Jason Rock - Council Candidate

Post by Timi »

Who cares if crime is up or down. I think we may be getting hung up on numbers. Safety is the issue here. Are we going to consult a report before we ensure that kelowna is safe? No, we're just going to do what it takes to make sure people are safe without incrouching on peoples rights.

I am sure that safety is something any citizen can get behind, especially the police.
stay real.
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marooned
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Re: Jason Rock - Council Candidate

Post by marooned »

Hi All,

A very interesting read to this point, and thanks to all for participating.

I just want to make a few points, and then I will move on.

As for walking through downtown or City Park at night, count me as one who has no problem doing so. I live by the hospital and walk or bike various routes between my home and downtown all the time, from friends' places in the North End after a night of socialising or after a night at the pub. I am happy to have the underpass under the bridge back again, as I don't have to travel via Pandosy or Richter. The only part of downtown I would ever consider avoiding is the row of bars at closing time.

Yes, statistics can be manipulated to suit any purpose, but that does not mean statistics are bunk. When used correctly, they highlight trends in society and are vital for planning decisions.

Moreover, when Jason uses stats to make a case for a certain policy approach, and those stats are shown to be flawed, it seems disingenuous for Jason to then turn to anecdotal evidence to support his approach. And to top it off, those same flawed stats are still available on Jason's site.

Don't get me wrong: I am not decided on who to vote for, and I like some of Jason's takes on other local issues. I also definitely like that Jason is active on the forum, and is actually discussing the issues with forum participants.

In summary, I would like to hear from all candidates, including Jason, giving less time to debates over numbers, and more about the changes they believe will make Kelowna a better city to live in.

My $0.02
jason_rock
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Re: Jason Rock - Council Candidate

Post by jason_rock »

C/P from my website at http://members.shaw.ca/jason_rock/statistics.htm

KELOWNA IS THE NEXT MEXICO?......

If Kelowna keeps marketing this KPMG report:

http://members.shaw.ca/jason_rock/images/chamberkpmg.pdf

that promotes Kelowna as having the cheapest place to setup a business mainly because of our cheap labour (also known as the sunshine tax), then we might as well begin to vision our lifestyle similar to the citizens Mexico:

1. Cheap service labour will dictate our standard of living.
2. Nobody will be able to afford a home for a family - even if both partners work.
3. Companies will locate here on cost alone, not for our talented citizens.
4. Citizens will only watch wealthy tourists use our parks, lakes, restaurants.
5. Citizens will not be able to afford to use our own public recreation centres.
6. Citizens with specialized skills who were taught at our local post-secondary
institutions will leave Kelowna for larger cities.

Interesting enough, I see this vision already a reality for many of our citizens.

If we don't stop promoting Kelowna as the cheapest place to do business, this increasing situation of the average citizen becoming less able to afford even the basic civic services will continue to rise. Let's get on with bringing the right companies to Kelowna that specialize in all facets of technology, from agriculture to aviation to information technology to waste-water management. We can do this if the right people are in place to lead and invest in economic development. All partners in the role of economic development need to be pulling on the same rope. I must also state that we have some very dedicated individuals in the community who are passionate about economic development and I praise them. Yet for this city to prosper, we need City Council, Tourism Kelowna, Chamber of Commerce, Economic Development Commission, Film Commission, and leaders in each industry to work together and come up with a cohesive plan, not 20 plans developed in silos.


Thanks for your time and look forward to your input into this situation.
Regards
Jason Rock
http://www.jason-rock.com
Last edited by jason_rock on Oct 31st, 2008, 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
justice4U
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Re: Jason Rock - Council Candidate

Post by justice4U »

Jason,

Still waiting for that much-heralded apology for your misleading AND factually wrong website reference to "rising crime".

I see that Supt. McKinnon was back in front of city council earlier this week. He reported that, while there was a rise in autotheft, the other numbers were all down yet again. Including "crimes against persons" (i.e. assault, sexual assault, etc.).

Maybe you weren't there? Or maybe you're just not paying attention.

Oh - and in addition to the apology - can you give us a date on when you're planning to update your website?

Wade Jenson
pupster457
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Re: Jason Rock - Council Candidate

Post by pupster457 »

Mr Jensen,
Again, you haven't answered if you are the defense lawyer mentioned in the phone book. Maybe it is none of my business, but when you start picking on a candidate and insisting on an apology it makes me wonder that if you are a defense attorney have you apologized to the innocent victims of the criminals who you got off on a technicality that have committed another crime against the innocent victims. Wade, get off your high horse and stop harassing Mr Rock for an apology you are not owed!
jason_rock
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Re: Jason Rock - Council Candidate

Post by jason_rock »

Mr. Jensen,

I updated my website on Monday, October 28th - once the new information was released with my new comments. I think your PC is caching the old statistics page. Make sure you hit refresh and you will see last Monday's update. Like most statistics for the city, some things are improving, and some are not. See my comments at:

http://members.shaw.ca/jason_rock/statistics.htm

I think I have presented all I can and now it is up to the citizens to decide if crime is an increasing problem that needs to be addressed or not. I am still going to ensure that crime is reduced. I appreciate the debate and if some new facts come in, let's talk about it.

Thanks people,
Regards
Jason Rock
www.jason-rock.com
leroibrown
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Re: Jason Rock - Council Candidate

Post by leroibrown »

I agree with a lot of your ideas Jason, however when you said in your second comment the council pays very little, you lost my vote. I disagree as council members get paid very well for the little effort they have to commit to. Over $30 k per year is a lot more than many residents in Kelowna make and actually have to support their families with. Perhaps it is not a lot to you. Maybe you are a millionaire or something, or come from a family with money, but many people in tis city struggle to get by on far less than $30k per annum. We have enough self serving millionaires on our current council They must be replaced with individuals who know what it is like to work hard for little pay. Remember it was Sharon Shepherd who was trying to attract companies to come here because they could get away with paying out little in wages. She might has well have said she would import workers from Mexico for them if they could not find enough locals to work. How does importing Mexican workers help our economy? They send their money back to Mexico to help the economy there. I'm surprised at her for that. She should not be re-elected.Her husband being a doctor pretty much insures that she is a very wealthy woman. She doesn't care about the common folk that represent the larger number of voters. She obviously looks at them, us, :runforlife: as peasants, as it seems you do as well. You lost my vote for that remark about $30 k being very little. It's time to get the millionaires out of our council chambers and replace them with people who understand what a struugle it is for folks to live in such a high cost of living city while getting paid peanuts, far less than $30k per year.

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