Rosalind Neis - Council Candidate

inquisitive
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Re: Rosalind Neis - Council Candidate

Post by inquisitive »

As Mayor Neis has stated very clearly, both at the recent forum and on this thread, this district is paying more than its share of policing costs, witness the 40% quoted for one segment of the community. One can assume tha there are similar statistics for each of the communities, municipalities, districts, our RCMP detachment serves, that could be assembled in short order to initiate consultation and action with the various representatives to rectify the situation and thus improve this district's cash-flow.
One wonders that this self-evident situation has not already initiated corrective action? Or, alternately, that it becomes a matter of some higher priority in the next session?
Perhaps this would result in $120,000.00 of savings and permit the hiring of at least, according to Mayor Neis, one badly needed constable?
Sodapop
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Re: Rosalind Neis - Council Candidate

Post by Sodapop »

During Tuesday nights forum Ms. Neis almost had me. I was there, sitting with my pen ready to give her my vote ...she almost had me.... then she played the victim card. Poor me as Mayor not getting anyone to play with me. How shameful those others were....

I did hear Mr. Finlater describe that a leader is one who is able to bring together people for the common good. To influence others to accomplish an objective. To support a decision in the best interests of the whole. I also believe in his own way Mr. Haslock echoed those comments on leadership as well. I couldn't agree more. A leader is not a boss. To be firm on a position is admirable but to be rigid inhibits growth (community and personal).

So while Ms. Neis and her supporters (and yes we all know who you are) all focus on the lack of transparecy you percieve has occurred, all I can see is someone feeling sorry for themselves. Someone who doesn't seem to want to share or acknowledge responsibility of a sour relationship (council). Someone that hasn't learned what leadership means. I wouldn't call some of her comments cheap shots, just condensending comments that confirmed a victim role.

Though I believe Ms. Neis has gained some valuable experience I can't vote for someone who is so rigid and someone who plays a victim let alone plays it out in public...Well sort of plays it out in public because while she has stated she didn't bring certain things up at Tuesday's forum and wouldn't do that, she certainly wasn't afraid to bring it up ..oh, I'm sorry...imply, make innehendo's or tease...in this forum. As for accepting councils decisions and moving on ...well... she showed she hadn't yet by her comments on Tuesday night.

Again... I do believe Ms. Neis could provide some valuable experience to council. However, from what I have witnessed and seen this past year as well as the what I saw this past Tuesday nite, I would believe she would be more of a destructive force rather than a positive influence to council. Perception is reality. You all know that as all you have to do is review all of your posts on any forum. My perception would change and I would be happy to support her if I can see any change from her being a boss to a being leader. I think there's still time...
GlenCanyon
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Re: Rosalind Neis - Council Candidate

Post by GlenCanyon »

In the adversarial world of politics it is difficult to put forward ideas that bring people together. It is so much more easier to put forward ideas that divide us. Pitting us against the WFN or us against the Westbank side or us against the West Kelowna group is all to easy. Where does it stop? You are not the only one who has done this but your are one of them.

My words were well chosen and based on 30 years of experience. In one breath we speak about low cost housing and then in another we berate the only group (the WFN) that has made a considerable difference to help low cost housing. There is absolutely no area in this country that has low cost housing that does not have a rate of crime higher then the norm. As a Mayor you should know this fact please do not exploit this fact for cheap votes. What you might not know is have that dividing good members of different police forces have to come after to pick up the hardships of that divide. And by far you are not the first politician who has done this and sadly you will not be the last.

Now for a minute please put aside your spirited words on 40% and $120,000.00 and think of the human tragedy. Are we not a blended community (here I mean the total area covered by our detachment)? Should we not be our brother's keeper? Just how high do you want to build the fences? Did society not create Robert Pickton and could all of us not have done better for those poor women? A long time ago we came to realize that policing needs to be done in a very broad way to serve and work effectively. Mr. Marc Greenburg made some excellent suggestions for improvement that I suggest you discuss with him.

In the City of Vancouver the Downtown Eastside uses more policing and other municipal services then does Point Grey (who pay way more taxes). When some outraged Point Grey citizen speaks out against this and says they should get their fair share under the breath of the rank and file we recognized a bigot when we see one. Not having heard the conversation and questions you poised to that officer during your ride-along I will not make more comment then to say answers like that are far too easy. To you I ask did you ask a leading question? Most active cops are very reluctant to offer comments but most of them get the big picture.

Now you can take this as criticism or just maybe you can take this as a learning opportunity. We need to hire 5-6 officers before we put one officer at any given time on the street since they work 24/365 which puts the number of one new cop at a number closer to $700.000.00. If you really want local control of our policing then a local municipal force with a police board is the only way to go. A local force has even higher costs per officer closer to 1 million for each one more officer 24/365. As a ex cop I listen with a great deal of carefulness to the answer to that question. Gord Millison and Duane Ophus who answered before and after you demonstrated to me that they understood the large picture and took a very responsible approach. Of course I want a force nearly triple to what we have, a large new costly facility and a municipal police force with a local police board but I am not foolish enough to think we or anyone else have the money to pay for it. These facts should be made public along with the other facts. I dare say if the vast majority knew these facts they would be very alarmed.

On the frustration you have had of not being able to meet with the WFN I am disappointed and surprised to hear that. I can offer no advice. That must be difficult for you and the other members of our council. I will temper my comments with this knowledge and say all of our policing issues as they pertain to the Westside and WFN lands is certainly a two way street.

As for me coming by and speaking with you I will take up your invite and do just that. I appreciated your willingness to discuss this and other issues.
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Bestside
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Re: Rosalind Neis - Council Candidate

Post by Bestside »

Sodapop wrote:During Tuesday nights forum Ms. Neis almost had me. I was there, sitting with my pen ready to give her my vote ...she almost had me.... then she played the victim card. Poor me as Mayor not getting anyone to play with me. How shameful those others were....

I did hear Mr. Finlater describe that a leader is one who is able to bring together people for the common good. To influence others to accomplish an objective. To support a decision in the best interests of the whole. I also believe in his own way Mr. Haslock echoed those comments on leadership as well. I couldn't agree more. A leader is not a boss. To be firm on a position is admirable but to be rigid inhibits growth (community and personal).

So while Ms. Neis and her supporters (and yes we all know who you are) all focus on the lack of transparecy you percieve has occurred, all I can see is someone feeling sorry for themselves. Someone who doesn't seem to want to share or acknowledge responsibility of a sour relationship (council). Someone that hasn't learned what leadership means. I wouldn't call some of her comments cheap shots, just condensending comments that confirmed a victim role.

Though I believe Ms. Neis has gained some valuable experience I can't vote for someone who is so rigid and someone who plays a victim let alone plays it out in public...Well sort of plays it out in public because while she has stated she didn't bring certain things up at Tuesday's forum and wouldn't do that, she certainly wasn't afraid to bring it up ..oh, I'm sorry...imply, make innehendo's or tease...in this forum. As for accepting councils decisions and moving on ...well... she showed she hadn't yet by her comments on Tuesday night.

Again... I do believe Ms. Neis could provide some valuable experience to council. However, from what I have witnessed and seen this past year as well as the what I saw this past Tuesday nite, I would believe she would be more of a destructive force rather than a positive influence to council. Perception is reality. You all know that as all you have to do is review all of your posts on any forum. My perception would change and I would be happy to support her if I can see any change from her being a boss to a being leader. I think there's still time...

What a clever post Sodapop... first prize for spinning a negative concoction that just came to light at the candidates forum... NOT!

Your previous Castanet posts as a pro Westbanker... AKA influential advisers to the Doug Findlater group on council (the baf 5) ... give you away..

Your agenda is to elect a slate of pro Westbankers... and like the others in your group will do anything to make that happen... that is not unusual I suppose... we have seen some pretty dirty pool in politics around here lately... so good luck to your group... you have a head start and the character to reach your goal ... It is to bad that you make no attempt to unify the Westside but that as well is a democratic choice...
"Conservatives have whipped themselves into spasms of outrage and despair that block all strategic thinking" - David Frum
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Bestside
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Re: Rosalind Neis - Council Candidate

Post by Bestside »

GlenCanyon wrote:
rosalind neis wrote:
GlenCanyon wrote:At last night's all candidate's meeting you took a cheap parting shot at your fellow councilors. Why? Can you not accept decisions of majorities?

Sure you speak well and directly but your words, concerns and ideas last night did not match your passion. I wish it had been different or you had the courage to run again for the mayor's position and face the divisions you have caused.

But you saved your worst to your reply on policing which was and is very bigoted and ignorant to the facts of society. As a retired police officer I can tell you that every city, rural area or village have good areas and bad areas. But I can tell you that they move and terrible crime can occur anywhere and do. To blame the Westbank Indian band is to ignore the terrible facts of crime. As a cop I hated seeing the youth of our first nations lost to drugs in the downtown eastside. What have you done to improve the situation? Nothing. All you did last night was stir the pot of bigots. Sure you got applause, but all you did was make the situation worst and weakened our community. You should be ashamed. You should know better. I can only hope we know better.

To Glen Canyon:

I would like to reply to your post. I can only guess that my comments about the type of councilor I would be is what you call a "cheap shot". So be it -

In the adversarial world of politics it is difficult to put forward ideas that bring people together. It is so much more easier to put forward ideas that divide us. Pitting us against the WFN or us against the Westbank side or us against the West Kelowna group is all to easy. Where does it stop? You are not the only one who has done this but your are one of them.

My words were well chosen and based on 30 years of experience. In one breath we speak about low cost housing and then in another we berate the only group (the WFN) that has made a considerable difference to help low cost housing. There is absolutely no area in this country that has low cost housing that does not have a rate of crime higher then the norm. As a Mayor you should know this fact please do not exploit this fact for cheap votes. What you might not know is have that dividing good members of different police forces have to come after to pick up the hardships of that divide. And by far you are not the first politician who has done this and sadly you will not be the last.

Now for a minute please put aside your spirited words on 40% and $120,000.00 and think of the human tragedy. Are we not a blended community (here I mean the total area covered by our detachment)? Should we not be our brother's keeper? Just how high do you want to build the fences? Did society not create Robert Pickton and could all of us not have done better for those poor women? A long time ago we came to realize that policing needs to be done in a very broad way to serve and work effectively. Mr. Marc Greenburg made some excellent suggestions for improvement that I suggest you discuss with him.

In the City of Vancouver the Downtown Eastside uses more policing and other municipal services then does Point Grey (who pay way more taxes). When some outraged Point Grey citizen speaks out against this and says they should get their fair share under the breath of the rank and file we recognized a bigot when we see one. Not having heard the conversation and questions you poised to that officer during your ride-along I will not make more comment then to say answers like that are far too easy. To you I ask did you ask a leading question? Most active cops are very reluctant to offer comments but most of them get the big picture.

Now you can take this as criticism or just maybe you can take this as a learning opportunity. We need to hire 5-6 officers before we put one officer at any given time on the street since they work 24/365 which puts the number of one new cop at a number closer to $700.000.00. If you really want local control of our policing then a local municipal force with a police board is the only way to go. A local force has even higher costs per officer closer to 1 million for each one more officer 24/365. As a ex cop I listen with a great deal of carefulness to the answer to that question. Gord Millison and Duane Ophus who answered before and after you demonstrated to me that they understood the large picture and took a very responsible approach. Of course I want a force nearly triple to what we have, a large new costly facility and a municipal police force with a local police board but I am not foolish enough to think we or anyone else have the money to pay for it. These facts should be made public along with the other facts. I dare say if the vast majority knew these facts they would be very alarmed.

On the frustration you have had of not being able to meet with the WFN I am disappointed and surprised to hear that. I can offer no advice. That must be difficult for you and the other members of our council. I will temper my comments with this knowledge and say all of our policing issues as they pertain to the Westside and WFN lands is certainly a two way street.

As for me coming by and speaking with you I will take up your invite and do just that. I appreciated your willingness to discuss this and other issues.

Glen Canyon resident, you must have been shocked that Mayor Neis responded to your accusation against Her Worship as:
lacking courage, is divisive, very bigoted, ignorant to the facts of society, blamed Westbank Indian band, a do nothing, stirred the pot of bigots, made the situation worst (sic), weakened our community, should be ashamed, should know better."

Mayor Neis very easily set you straight with the facts of what she said, and showed that you, with your post, was everything you accused Mayor Neis of being. You spun a devastating lie that would never hold up in court... but you know more about that than I...

Then in your follow-up to the Mayor's post you have the nerve to say "My words were well chosen and based on 30 years of experience." And then you continue with innuendo that the Mayor has slighted the WFN and is akin to responsible for the worst areas of the lower mainland. Shame on you Sir!

You have a lot of nerve making such an outlandish charge against anyone and then standing behind your work as a police officer to justify the truth of such a charge. That does not work with very many people anymore. Canadian police force practice is littered with transgressions against our First Nation People. Officer Jack Ramsay in Northern Saskatchewan, First Nations people left to freeze to death in Saskatoon, the killing of Dudley George, wrongly convicting a Mic Mac in Atlantic Canada, Judge Ramsey in Prince George buying favours with 12 year old FN girls.

And you grasping at the straws of spin doctoring with your "lesson" of requiring "closer to 1 million" to hire another police officer is just bogus... put your 24/7/365 in the shredder... it does nothing for the cause and just causes unjustified confusion. Quite a piece of work... You should be ashamed.

By the way... Capital News Oct. 8
Kelowna RCMP Selected Offence types
September 28 to Oct. 4, 2008
Kelowna - 64
Westside - 6
"Conservatives have whipped themselves into spasms of outrage and despair that block all strategic thinking" - David Frum
Jo
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Re: Rosalind Neis - Council Candidate

Post by Jo »

Please make your points without attacking the other members.
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Re: Rosalind Neis - Council Candidate

Post by Crying-Angel »

So, I'd like to ask, how do you know who the supporters of Rosalind Neis are? Do you base your assumptions on where she lives? Because I live IN Westbank and support her over anyone else on the current council.
I like her because she is down to earth, doe not put on airs, and calls it like she sees it. She is also not afraid to speak out about what the RD has NOT done for our community in the past, even though it was promised, all the while taking our tax dollars.
She was very forthright with the developer of Green Bay...and she was able to articulate the problems she had with the project. Why? Because she went down to see it herself. Not rely on what others told her.
As to the people who say that she is the divisive force on the council...I would say that it is the other counselors who are contributing to that. She is the outsider of the group, the others all have their own (Westbank) agenda.
And yes she had some ideas that were shut down by council, however, does anyone have the stats on the other council members who brought forth ideas and how many got shot down? 'Cause I sure don't remember too many members of council sticking their neck out there. :smt017

And lastly, she thinks like a taxpayer! And that showed up best when she addressed the issue of Provincial aid towards the sewer system. She wants to continue the fight for the taxpayers, not just say, oh well, that is the way it is...so the individual will just have to pay for the excess cost.
If SHE is the one who is so divisive, then I would conclude that she is also the one who is looking after our community the best. After all, I did not see too many other councillors standing by her side when she was ready to fight for this issue.
Is it because "they" don't want to be seen as supporting her? Or do they just not care? :137:

I know a lot of people, in Westbank, who were grateful that someone else came forth to run against Findlater, and I know of a lot people who do not have faith in the current "councillors" (mayor not included in that statement).

I just have to say Thank You to Ms. Neis for the year she has given us, and I hope to see you on council. :cheerleader:
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Grand Pooh-bah
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Re: Rosalind Neis - Council Candidate

Post by occasional thoughts »

*do not speculate or discuss where other members might live/Jo*

But it otherwise always jars me when I read your stuff to think that you don't live within our area, in terms of legal jurisdiction. Pity.
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Re: Rosalind Neis - Council Candidate

Post by occasional thoughts »

There is no speculation involved. Elektrik Sky has said openly before he/she lives on WFN.
Sodapop
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Re: Rosalind Neis - Council Candidate

Post by Sodapop »

Thank for the enlightenment Bestside. It was a nice guess but I am not Pro-Westbanker. I have no real attactment to Westbank nor the history but I guess you missed that earlier. I will actually be voting for and have strongly advocated West Kelowna and will continue to do so.

My understanding of an election is to vote for who you feel who is most qualified to help with the continuation of building our community. This will be done with people who are committed to working together to bring not only council together but the community as a whole. I stated my reason for not voting for Neis. They are my reasons and you have the right to disagree with me. As far as Findlater, there has been a continual bashing of him by the pro-West Kelowna group. But when it comes to saying anything about Ms. Neis you seem to get a little touchy and sensitive.

As far as I am aware there are two mayoral candidates running for Mayor. While it may be a nice thought to have Mr. Haslock be our Mayor I find it would be akind to having canadman run my investment portfoliio. He may have some good ideas but really, would I trust my future with him at this moment ? Absolutely not.

I remember thinking Malrooney seemed like a good idea at the time...So did George W. Nice guy, would like to have a beer with him. Be careful what you wish for. There is a three year run coming up and we need direction, leadership, cohisiveness and yes trust (I do understand the issue there as well and I don't need a lecture thank you). Choose wisely and carefully. I'll be using my head and not my heart in making decisions that will affect my future and my family.

So yes. I will be voting for Findlater. Not because I am a pro-westbanker but because he is the most qualified, dedicated canidate and I do trust him to bring together and lead this next council to make this community the best it can be.
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Re: Rosalind Neis - Council Candidate

Post by Crying-Angel »

As I live about 2 minutes from downtown Westbank, I feel as though I AM a part of Westbank. (I am not native BTW)
We work here, shop here, kids go to school here. I am sad to hear that people who were lucky enough to be able to buy a house on freehold land, feel that those of us who lease land are not citizens of this community.Thanks, I shall have to remember to learn my place in this society.
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the_zipper
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Re: Rosalind Neis - Council Candidate

Post by the_zipper »

Just b/c Electik Sky lives on WFN doesn't mean that she is not part of this community. Nor does it mean that decisions made by council won't affect her and her family. Rosalind Neis will have my vote on Nov 15th.
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Re: Rosalind Neis - Council Candidate

Post by occasional thoughts »

My point, removed by the monitor, was that it's too bad that Elektrik Sky can't participate in Westside votes and all, because he/she is so keen about what's going on here. But neither may Westsiders involve ourselves in the affairs of the WFN Advisory Council, which is the closest he or she comes to haveing a council.
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Re: Rosalind Neis - Council Candidate

Post by brookings »

I for one will not be voting for Mr Findlater
I have found his way of working to be underhanded and not open to the public as it is suppose to be.
Secretly meeting with other councillors (as has been reported) and "fixing "the vote before the council meeting even occurs is not my idea of being a good mayoral candidate!!
He has been opposed to Ms Neis in every meeting as far as i could tell and that just shows he is not for the common person living in the community

As for the comments about the policing in WFN - it is clear that RCMP have been and will continue to police the WFN lands -- HOWEVER i think Ms Neis's point is that the WFN do not contribute as much to the policing costs as they should be!! On this point i agree with Ms Neis

Do not vote Findlater but Do vote for Ms Neis as councillor!!!!!!
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Re: Rosalind Neis - Council Candidate

Post by fairweather »

Rosalind Neis has been the only one to think out of the box. She does a lot of homework and research and comes up with suggestions that are shot down by the others who simply refuse to give her any credit. Despite all odds, she has proven herself to be more than capable. Anyone who doesn't see that, isn't looking.

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