The Need for a New Political Party in BC

BC's provincial election and STV referendum takes place Tuesday May 12th.
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Homeownertoo
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by Homeownertoo »

John500 wrote:Totall agree with NAB. We are again in a democratic dictatorship. Starting a new party will attract the same people. Socreds, Liberals and Conservatives are all the same provincially.

You seem to be on the right track, sort of. The problem is not a shortage of parties to represent what people want, or even the people they attract (something you can't do anything about anyway). The problem is that representative democracy only works when there is limited gov't. The more areas of society that gov't takes over, the more deeply it interferes with people's lives without their explicit consent, with correspondingly less legitimacy, since few issues are actually addressed during election campaigns. Take, for example, the upcoming HOV lanes. Most people rightly understand this is madness. Almost no one wants them. I don't remember being consulted. Yet they are inevitably going to be forced on us.

What gov't gives citizens, at its best, is a voice, not a choice. You have a single voice to influence policy. You can get involved in the political process, build a coalition of supporters and try to be heard above the other coalitions of interest groups, then lobby politicians and bureaucrats. But at the end of the day, you only have a voice, not a choice, when the decisions are made and they don't reflect what you want. This is the opposite of the market, or private sector, where you have choices that are not subject to what the next person wants. Consider another example -- health care. Under our politicized health system, your choice of care is limited to what the politicians and bureaucrats have decided to provide (attenuated in part by the fact that doctors and some supporting services such as physios are kind of private). In a private system, the market would provide whatever services you could afford.

This problem of voice rather than choice is compounded by the fact that representative democracy is, in effect, a temporary form of dictatorship, subject only to elections where a plurality decides who the next set of rulers are. Adding more parties just reduces the plurality needed to win, or leads to coalitions, which in turn lead to expanded gov't as each member of the coalition must be satisfied, and thus an even bigger problem. The proposed system of proportional representation we will be voting on in the next election promises to make things even worse.

The only solution, as I see it, is to rein in the scope of gov't. LOL! In other words, I don't see any solution. In fact, I see society moving into a de facto post-democracy phase, where gov't runs everything of any significance, subject to lobby groups whose actual power and influence is dwarfed by that of politicians and the bureaucracy. Elections will be irrelevant as all parties support gov't control of the economy and civil society. Civil rights will be increasingly left to the whims of human rights commissars who pick and choose the favoured groups in society. I don't see any reversal of the ugly trends already well underway. The Mark Steyns, Ezra Levants and Geert Maases of the world will be largely silenced. And we will all be driving along HOV lanes as vehicles will not be permitted with less than two people in them.
“Certain things cannot be said, certain ideas cannot be expressed, certain policies cannot be proposed.” -- Leftist icon Herbert Marcuse
“Don’t let anybody tell you it’s corporations and businesses create jobs.” -- Hillary Clinton, 25/10/2014
NAB
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by NAB »

Something I have noticed compared to "back when" is what appears to me significant growth in two particular sectors of Canadian society..

1. Those who expect 'government' to be everything they personally need, even manage their lives for them/look after them.

2. Those who expect 'government' to manage every one else's life along the lines they personally choose.

Growth in 'government' (and government interference in our lives) as a response seems assured.

I agree with homeownertoo... Too many voices and reduction in choices. Too many folk who either try to live off the rest of society, or are constantly trying to influence government to take on an increasing role in managing the lives of others along lines they perceive as desirable, ...thus constantly further narrowing the list of 'choices' we as society have as individuals, ...and constantly requiring MORE government interference in / control of people's personal lives. Not so much directly, but rather through economic and political manipulation.

Of course, I am of a generation that believed in self reliance/self sufficiency, independence, responsibility, respect, keeping our nose out of other people's personal affairs and business, and consequences (good or bad) from the choices we made. As well, we believed government should have responsibility only for basic things that the majority of society needed - and not cater to special interest groups or individuals in any way ("taking from Peter to benefit Paul").

Doesn't seem to be in vogue any more, particularly if government can be designed to protect us from / relieve us of those horrific things we used to consider as being our own responsibility - collect the fruits of our labour (at least from those who do/did labour) ...and redistribute it according to some particular scheme, philosophy, or momentary poorly thought out whim.

I think there must be a word for it, but it escapes me at the moment... ;-)

Nab
"He who controls others may be powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still." - Lao-Tzu
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Homeownertoo
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

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Nabcom wrote:I think there must be a word for it, but it escapes me at the moment... ;-)

Nab

Are you looking for the word "socialism"?
“Certain things cannot be said, certain ideas cannot be expressed, certain policies cannot be proposed.” -- Leftist icon Herbert Marcuse
“Don’t let anybody tell you it’s corporations and businesses create jobs.” -- Hillary Clinton, 25/10/2014
WhatThe

Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by WhatThe »

Send me your money and I'll do it. Heres my platform.......... We will not use public funds to support and maintain an invasive and archaic time dictatorship. No more turning back the clocks.

Seriously , send me your money
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almac
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by almac »

we need a new conservative party in BC.
peace
al
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Homeownertoo
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

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almac wrote:we need a new conservative party in BC.

We have one. It has its problems but it is also small enough that an interested/committed individual could put his or her stamp on it. The current one has a respectable platform, too.
“Certain things cannot be said, certain ideas cannot be expressed, certain policies cannot be proposed.” -- Leftist icon Herbert Marcuse
“Don’t let anybody tell you it’s corporations and businesses create jobs.” -- Hillary Clinton, 25/10/2014
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steven lloyd
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

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Homeownertoo wrote:
almac wrote:we need a new conservative party in BC.

We have one. It has its problems but it is also small enough that an interested/committed individual could put his or her stamp on it. The current one has a respectable platform, too.


It did have some good ideas (still a little leary on others if I remember).
Do you have it handy to re-post here ?
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Urbane
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

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    steven lloyd wrote:
    Homeownertoo wrote:
    almac wrote:we need a new conservative party in BC.

    We have one. It has its problems but it is also small enough that an interested/committed individual could put his or her stamp on it. The current one has a respectable platform, too.


    It did have some good ideas (still a little leary on others if I remember).
    Do you have it handy to re-post here ?
http://conservativesbc.com/policies.pdf
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steven lloyd
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

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Urbane wrote:
    steven lloyd wrote:
    Homeownertoo wrote:
    almac wrote:we need a new conservative party in BC.

    We have one. It has its problems but it is also small enough that an interested/committed individual could put his or her stamp on it. The current one has a respectable platform, too.


    It did have some good ideas (still a little leary on others if I remember).
    Do you have it handy to re-post here ?
http://conservativesbc.com/policies.pdf


Thanks Urbane, I'll take a closer look tomorrow.
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steven lloyd
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by steven lloyd »

I have to say that for the most part I’m pretty impressed with the Statement of the Philosophy and Policies of the BC Conservative Party. It is a well laid out and clearly articulated vision, unlike both the Liberals and NDP. I was also pleasantly surprised to see the inclusion of some ideas that would more typically be thought of as left-wing (such as social investment) from a party that is traditionally seen as more far right. If we could trust them to stay to true to and follow through this vision, it contains good ideas from both the left and right side of the political spectrum. In fact, there was very little to concern me at first read.

A couple of items that did cause some concern, however, are:

We believe that traditional values and lore should be upheld until it can be amply demonstrated that a change is advantageous to society.

A BC Conservative Government will eliminate undemocratic agreements such as the “Corren Agreement” from the public school system and ensure that all citizens shall have the opportunity for equal influence over the development of curriculum in the public school system.

A BC Conservative Government will ensure that any public transit service operated by a regional
government will not exclude the development or management of private ownership of new transit services.

Because Crown transportation companies, Translink and BC Ferry Corporation have significant impact on the public welfare by providing essential services, unresolved labour disputes in these companies will be settled by mandatory arbitration.



I'd have to give each of the aforementioned some more tought and investigation, and hear from those who can support them, but there were also many ideas I could easily support, including, but not limited to:

A BC Conservative Government will encourage and recommend support for our residents to complete their education up to and including grade twelve.

A BC Conservative Government will actively promote the establishment of new coal mines, precious metals mines, and increase exploration and development in the coastal petroleum industry to create jobs.

We will address the shortage of doctors and nurses by fast tracking the accreditation of
foreign trained professionals
and by increasing the number of training spaces in our
educational institutions.

We will open more long term care facilities in British Columbia in order to get long term care
patients out of our hospitals and into a more comfortable environment, and free up those
hospital beds for acute care patients. We will open more community care facilities in rural British Columbia, in order to take pressure off of our hospitals in those communities. We will increase the availability of home care support and reinstate housekeeping and other services so that more senior citizens can live in dignity in their own homes and so that the demand for expensive hospital care will be reduced. We will re-open hospitals that have been closed by the BC Liberals in smaller communities in rural British Columbia.

A BC Conservative Government will strengthen enforcement and penalties for fraud involving the misuse of tax dollars.


Will that include going after Gordo ?

It is unfortunate the BC Conservatives do not seem to be getting their message out there to the general population. I’d encourage everyone here to read this through.
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by fred 2 »

They make more sense then any party in bc now. Why is it that a common sense party can not make it in bc.
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steven lloyd
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

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fred 2 wrote:They make more sense then any party in bc now. Why is it that a common sense party can not make it in bc.


Polarization in politics.
Extremism in and marriage to ideology.
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Homeownertoo
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by Homeownertoo »

steven lloyd wrote:
fred 2 wrote:They make more sense then any party in bc now. Why is it that a common sense party can not make it in bc.


Polarization in politics.
Extremism in and marriage to ideology.

True. Ironically, in some supposedly more centrist political corners, this "common sense" party is considered extreme and far right.
“Certain things cannot be said, certain ideas cannot be expressed, certain policies cannot be proposed.” -- Leftist icon Herbert Marcuse
“Don’t let anybody tell you it’s corporations and businesses create jobs.” -- Hillary Clinton, 25/10/2014
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steven lloyd
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by steven lloyd »

Homeownertoo wrote:
steven lloyd wrote:
fred 2 wrote:They make more sense then any party in bc now. Why is it that a common sense party can not make it in bc.


Polarization in politics.
Extremism in and marriage to ideology.

True. Ironically, in some supposedly more centrist political corners, this "common sense" party is considered extreme and far right.


Like I said I was pleasantly surprised to see some ideas regarding social investment. Combined with a well-articulated platform (unlike both the Liberals and NDP) I am somewhat impresssed.
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by ventured »

Nabcom wrote:As just a small example, for the next week or so people, particularly people with kids, are going to once again go through the machinations of trying to adjust their body clocks to having to get up an hour earlier each day. Whether one agrees with the twice annual changing of the clocks or not we have no choice in the matter. (I do not agree with it for a variety of good and valid reasons - but that's for another discussion sometime). For the purposes of this thread, the point being that government manipulation of something as basic as "what the time is" enables them to dictate even the point that we must get up in the morning - twice a year disrupting millions of business schedules and lives (even costing some) worldwide in the process.

Give me a political party in BC who will put a stop to this clock changing nonsense and I will vote for them without questioning anything else related to their platform :-)

Edit to add: Just the freakin job of having to go around and reset all the clocks in my life wears me out for the day. (22 of them at last count, plus replace the batteries in the smoke detectors :-( )

Nab


I think you have too many clocks!

So you are saying that you'd repeal DST, and ban changing batteries in Smoke detectors :dyinglaughing: ?

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