The Need for a New Political Party in BC

BC's provincial election and STV referendum takes place Tuesday May 12th.
strikes&gutters
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by strikes&gutters »

Homeownertoo wrote:
strikes&gutters wrote:
fred 2 wrote:They make more sense then any party in bc now. Why is it that a common sense party can not make it in bc.


Yes, they do have some good ideas, whether or not they are achievable is another story. How many parties have promised free votes in the past? How many actually followed through?

IMHO, their biggest problem is with their leader, Wilf Hanni. This guy has been the leader of 3 or 4 right wing parties in the past decade. His greatest success was when he took over the Reform BC Party in 1997. Under Jack Wesigarber's leadership, Reform BC managed to gain 2 seats in the Legislature in the 1996 election, and over 10% of the vote. Then Hanni took the reigns. Within 3 MONTHS, both the Reform MLA's left the party, and that was the end of them!

Here's some more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilf_Hanni

I very much consider myself be a right-leaner, but I can't in good conscious vote for this party right now.

Is leadership the party's main problem now, and what specifically do you know about Hanni? How about their candidates? Their platform is attractive to me, so someone there must be doing something right.


Sure, the platform may be attractive, anyone can right a platform that looks good on paper.
But is this the team that can actually deliver it? I have met several of the candidates and I'm not quite sure they're there yet.

What I specifically know about Hanni is that three right-wing political parties crashed and disappeared under his leadership / involvement.

At the end of the day, if you personally believe they are the best option out there, fine. There's a reason why we have a multi-party system.

My preference is to keep the NDP away from running this province, and I feel the BC Libs are the best option to do that.
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Homeownertoo
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by Homeownertoo »

strikes&gutters wrote:Sure, the (Conservative) platform may be attractive, anyone can right a platform that looks good on paper.
But is this the team that can actually deliver it? I have met several of the candidates and I'm not quite sure they're there yet.

What I specifically know about Hanni is that three right-wing political parties crashed and disappeared under his leadership / involvement.

At the end of the day, if you personally believe they are the best option out there, fine. There's a reason why we have a multi-party system.

My preference is to keep the NDP away from running this province, and I feel the BC Libs are the best option to do that.

I certainly agree with your final statement. But since the Conservatives have no chance to get into power -- though there is the slim possibility of sharing power in a minority gov't -- if you like their ideas, then why not support those ideas by voting for the party. More votes would translate into more attention on the party and its apparent leadership problems, and perhaps encourage the emergence of a more acceptable or more credible leader. To do otherwise is to discourage debate on good ideas (since they are even on the table with the Liberals and NDP) simply because the vehicle for such debate has organizational problems.
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strikes&gutters
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by strikes&gutters »

Homeownertoo wrote:
strikes&gutters wrote:Sure, the (Conservative) platform may be attractive, anyone can right a platform that looks good on paper.
But is this the team that can actually deliver it? I have met several of the candidates and I'm not quite sure they're there yet.

What I specifically know about Hanni is that three right-wing political parties crashed and disappeared under his leadership / involvement.

At the end of the day, if you personally believe they are the best option out there, fine. There's a reason why we have a multi-party system.

My preference is to keep the NDP away from running this province, and I feel the BC Libs are the best option to do that.

I certainly agree with your final statement. But since the Conservatives have no chance to get into power -- though there is the slim possibility of sharing power in a minority gov't -- if you like their ideas, then why not support those ideas by voting for the party. More votes would translate into more attention on the party and its apparent leadership problems, and perhaps encourage the emergence of a more acceptable or more credible leader. To do otherwise is to discourage debate on good ideas (since they are even on the table with the Liberals and NDP) simply because the vehicle for such debate has organizational problems.


To respond to the bold underlined part of your statement, I will keep it short and simple:

Because I remember 1996.

Remember that one! Libs outpolled the NDP, but won fewer seats and we ended up with 5 more years of have-not status, highest tax rates in North America and Youth Unemployment over 20%.

All thanks to Reform BC, a party which tried to use their name and implied but non-existent relationship to the Reform PArty of Canada to try and gain power.

Where is that party now? Right, a guy name Hanni took over, and the Party hasn't had a seat since.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Co ... tion,_1996

In politics, sometimes you stand FOR something, sometimes you stand AGAINST.

For now, I stand AGAINST an NDP government, and the BC Cons and their leader are not yet up to the task, IMHO.
Last edited by strikes&gutters on Apr 21st, 2009, 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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steven lloyd
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by steven lloyd »

strikes&gutters wrote: In politics, sometimes you stand FOR something, sometimes you stand AGAINST.

For now, I stand AGAINST an NDP government, and the BC Cons and their leader are not yet up to the task, IMHO. 2013 could be a whole different story, who knows


For now I stand AGAINST the re-election of a corrupt and criminal government, and unfortunately, the NDP is the only party with the current potential to remove this regime from government, or at least oppose this regime in the legislature.
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by strikes&gutters »

steven lloyd wrote:For now I stand AGAINST the re-election of a corrupt and criminal government, and unfortunately, the NDP is the only party with the current potential to remove this regime from government, or at least oppose this regime in the legislature.


Casinogate, bingogate, Fast Ferries, etc. The BC NDP wrote the how-to book on corruption and scandals.

We have lower taxes, and unemployment than in 2001. We have more government spending in the Okanagan than we have seen in some time. We have a bridge the NDP promised and spent millions "studying" but never built.

I'm content.
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Re: The Need for a New Political System in BC

Post by toomanyessays »

[quote="eyepop"]why not adopt the government style of Nunavut?

"..The members of the Legislative Assembly of Nunavut are elected individually; there are no parties and the legislature is consensus-based. The head of government, the premier of Nunavut, is elected by, and from the members of the legislative assembly...."

i bet more people would run for office,
if they didn't have to be Liberal, or NDP.

i'm sure blocs may form and the like,
but that should not be a concern..

in a democracy.






i love this idea!
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JLives
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by JLives »

I do too. I think voting for parties forces people to label thier set of priorties in government and most people I believe don't fit into those nice little boxes.
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Glacier
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by Glacier »

Nab, here is a party headquartered in your neck of the woods.

Jennylives, it sounds like a party you might be interested in as well as they seem to embrace some aspects of direct democracy.

http://refedbc.com/siteA/
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steven lloyd
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by steven lloyd »

strikes&gutters wrote: I'm content.


Ripping up legally negotiated contracts.
Shutting down hospitals and courthouses, resulting in lost lives and criminals walking away from an overburdened criminal justice system due to unapproved charges and lack of due process.
Decimating life in rural communities (yes there is, or was life outside the lower mainland, Kamloops and Kelowna) through elimination of services, and now an unfaitr carbon tax.
Taking Kelowna's well-deserved chance (a lot of time, work, sacrifice and personal investment had gone into it) to have a stand alone university (would hate to be a kid with a degree from OUC trying to explain to a potential employer where he graduated from).
Abandoning seniors - not only in the Okanagan but province wide.
Taking jobs from BC people and farming them out of country and overseas.
Taking the mercahnts of Davies Street to Court instead of saving taxpayers tens of thousands by just simply paying them out due to nothing more than ego.
Selling off public assets to cover his financial mismanagement and making shady, underhanded deals with his corporate buddies.


I'm glad you're okay with this.
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by [email protected] »

An addition to Steven Lloyds list ...
We aren't hearing very much about the Liberals proposed "Native Recognition Act" and it will probably not be brought up much during the upcoming election, at least not by the Liberals, however from what I have been able to understand from my readings, our Premier has a plan to give "title" to 94% of the Province of B.C. to approximatly 200 Native Bands!

Check this out .... http:/www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090428/bc_native_election_090427/20090428/?hub=BritishColumbiaHome . Click on the video as well.

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Al Czervic
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by Al Czervic »

I am starting to wonder what are politics really all about anymore? Are they about the party? the candidate ? both of these ? none of these ?

Maybe it is the fault of the parties themselves. What are the parties all about anymore? They are mostly all over the map.

But what is really bothering me about this election is how so many candidates themselves are clueless. Many are blatantly wrong on what they proclaim are facts. It is truly frightening how far off some of these claims can be. And they don’t care. Nobody seems to care about the truth anymore.

I just don’t get it. Will a new political party solves this? If I truly believed that it would; I would likely support that party. But I look at some of the newer parties and they are basically self created havens for hasbeens, cast offs; and wannabees from other parties.

I hear so many people say “I am running and if I get elected it will be different” and it never is. Than I look at voters and how we treat people that run for office. I am not suggesting that they don’t bring it on themselves at times; but they tend to get slammed no matter what.

We all seem to agree that we would like good and decent everyday people to run for public office and then we create and environment that no good and decent person would want to partake in.

I don’t know. I try and stay up on it all and try to be accurate it with the facts. And I can name 4-5 regular Cast-a-net members that have more political knowledge than many of the candidate’s do.

Policy; vision; ideas; leadership all seem to be taking a back seat. Now it is all fear mongering; slamming; and negativity. Yes, I too am feeling sick of it all and I am an old school political junkie. I don’t like new school politics. Will a new party solve that ? I don’t think it will. I think the problems go much deeper than that.
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

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Al Czervic wrote:... We all seem to agree that we would like good and decent everyday people to run for public office and then we create and environment that no good and decent person would want to partake in. ...

Policy; vision; ideas; leadership all seem to be taking a back seat. Now it is all fear mongering; slamming; and negativity. Yes, I too am feeling sick of it all and I am an old school political junkie. I don’t like new school politics. Will a new party solve that ? I don’t think it will. I think the problems go much deeper than that.

I suspect we are headed into a post-democratic era, where administrative law trumps legislative law, where the bureaucracy bamboozles the politicians, where citizens have been replaced by "clients", where human rights replace civil rights, and where the concerns you outlined follow naturally from this rotting out of the political process that seems immune to reform.
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by NAB »

That's an excellent post Al, and very worthy of in-depth (and lengthy) discussion as to what Canadian politics have devolved to at all levels, be they municipal, provincial, or federal. Incidently, I chose the word "devolved" carefully, and mean it in all of its uses (as in "devolution" as well). I too can remember a time when serving ones (community, country) as an MP, MLA, Municipal Mayor or Councillor was for the most part an honourable position which required a high level of intelligence, knowledge, ethics, principles, and morals - not just one or two of those attributes (or none of them - just the gift of the gab and spin - anchored in whatever political philosophy happens to serve their best personal interest at an opportunistic time).

Personally, I don't even like the term "politician" any more, because to me (in most cases) it infers a cultivated devious personality. For sure many are totally clueless as you suggest, but then few of 'them' who ultimately win a seat in the Legislature are, IMO, of little practical use in the modern scheme of "government" anyway. The majority of our "elected representatives" are little more than local flag wavers for the issues and policies promoted by the bureaucracies, special interests, and of course the Cabinets/Ministers who really call the shots. They don't want or need to know truth and facts, because that would be counterproductive to their personal objectives and those of their political masters. Besides, in the modern internet age very few people make the effort to even try and sort fact from the fiction amongst the massive amounts of distortion and deception we are exposed to daily.

Sometimes I even think, for many, that becoming a politician these days has more to do with finding and competing for a reasonably secure job that pays well with great benefits, leaves you more or less unsupervised and to your own time and devices, involves very little individual responsibility or authority should you get hired (and manage to avoid appointment to the Cabinet), and leaves one bound to parroting the "Party Line" on cue. To achieve that, no political party in it's right mind would want a full slate of troublesome intelligent, knowledgeable, ethical, principled, and morally sound self thinkers ;-)

....just enough of the better ones to stack the Cabinet, and who will get to rule the roost regardless. The rest are just window dressing in our system? (STV or no STV LOL).

But then, thinking on it a bit more, perhaps the majority of the dumbed down self centred Canadian population do not wish to be governed by a majority of representatives who are financially independent intelligent, knowledgeable, ethical, principled, morally sound self thinkers, even if we could find many any more?

Nab
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steven lloyd
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by steven lloyd »

Al Czervic wrote:I am starting to wonder what are politics really all about anymore? Are they about the party? the candidate ? both of these ? none of these ? Maybe it is the fault of the parties themselves. What are the parties all about anymore? They are mostly all over the map. But what is really bothering me about this election is how so many candidates themselves are clueless. Many are blatantly wrong on what they proclaim are facts. It is truly frightening how far off some of these claims can be. And they don’t care. Nobody seems to care about the truth anymore.


When it comes to not caring about the truth, in recent years it has been Gordon Campbell leading the way. I’m certainly not suggesting we can look to Carole James for truth, but that these politicians don’t deserve our respect. If we kept voting them out every four years after they have demonstrated that we shouldn’t have trusted them in the first place then maybe someone might one day get the message that we want accountability from our politicians. By re-electing Gordon Campbell (and probably re-electing him again) we are sending a strong message to politicians that we don’t care if you engage in criminal activity, if you screw us or defraud us because we are just too complacent and disempowered. Go nuts. Fill your boots. And while you’re at it fill your friend’s boots too.

Al Czervic wrote: We all seem to agree that we would like good and decent everyday people to run for public office and then we create and environment that no good and decent person would want to partake in.


I can’t completely agree with this Al. I don’t know that we initially created the environment for self-serving politicians, but we certainly do allow it to persist. Again, maybe if we changed the guard every four years someone might start to get the message.


Al Czervic wrote: I don’t know. I try and stay up on it all and try to be accurate it with the facts. And I can name 4-5 regular Cast-a-net members that have more political knowledge than many of the candidate’s do.


And I have to tell you that I appreciate the knowledge and information that you and a few others bring to this board. You have definitely given me reason to challenge my thinking, but although you can point out some good things Campbell has done that I would even agree with, I will never agree that he deserves another chance to be our premier. He is a megomaniac with an agenda and a criminal, and he has defrauded the tax payers. He has needlessly hurt thousands of families and is full of *bleep*. And for the record, my hate-on for this crook began long before I ever started working for government and became a BCGEU member. I knew he was getting ready to burn us during his first campaign when he was promising tax cuts while promising everyone he would not reduce services, sell off BC assets or rip up contracts. Not only did he do all those things, he and his cohorts have personally benefited in the process through criminal action. I will not vote for a gang of crooks, and I find it disappointing to think that the majority of the electorate is so apathetic, complacent and disempowered that they likely will.

Al Czervic wrote: Will a new party solve that ? I don’t think it will. I think the problems go much deeper than that.


I agree completely with that. The problems do go much deeper (and again, include apathy, complacency and disempwerment), but while a new party might not solve the problem we need a credible alternative. I also agree with you that the current alternative offerings (ie. PC and Greens) are not so credible but we desperately need another choice.
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Re: The Need for a New Political Party in BC

Post by Mike Summers »

Do you want to have control of your politicians? This seems to be the theme here.
Try having a look at us. We have no big money backing us because we are going to screw up politics for politicians forever if we get to form government just once.
And with the likelihood of a minority government looming, we would like to be the balance of power so that we can insist on democratizing BC for a change.
Strip the politicians of their ability to abuse citizens with their weird agendas, and it won't matter who is elected to govern because the people will have final say on anything the polticians do.

We are not separatists. We want to make confederation fair for all and empower citizens to control governments.

We do not want to govern by referendums. We want the citizens to control governments by the citizen's right to claw back stupid laws. That's a voter controlled, optional voter veto of any legislation. That means extremes will be gone or the people will UNDO what the politicians have done.

Sound interesting? www.refedbc.com

We have a few candidates down your way running.

Mike Summers, Leader

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