More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

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Al Czervic
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More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by Al Czervic »

B.C. NDP floats $10B green bond proposal
Last Updated: Thursday, February 12, 2009 | 2:55 PM PT CBC News
The leader of B.C.'s NDP is floating a $10 billion plan to stimulate the B.C. economy with what they're calling a green bonds investment plan, but the Liberals say it's an expensive idea.

Opposition Leader Carole James said Thursday that if elected, an NDP government would sell $1 billion worth of the green bonds every year for 10 years to create a fund to invest in green infrastructure and technology, which in turn would create new jobs.

"I want to see new investment in every corner of our province, creating opportunities in the new green economy for business and job growth," said James.

"This is a real chance for people in B.C. to say 'I want a green bond. My money is going to be safe.' "

The money could be used for everything from expanding transit to retrofitting homes, creating 15,000 new green jobs in construction, manufacturing, transportation and service sectors, she said.

But Finance Minister Colin Hansen said the NDP saving bonds launched in the 1990s were a financial disaster and the New Democrats have a record of wasting tax dollars.

Hansen said the government doesn't need to issue savings bonds because it has no trouble borrowing money much more cheaply now with its AAA credit rating.

"For the NDP to go out to the public with the cost of advertising, the cost of commissions and the fact they would actually have to offer a higher rate to those that bought the bonds, adds to costs at the end of the day, rather than decreases costs," said Hansen.

If James is serious about backing environmentally friendly projects, she should support some of those already underway, he said.


Aside form the Obvious that the NDP is planning on adding another $ 10 BILLION in dept; what seriously shocks me is the stupidity of the manner that they intend to do so.

Regardless of your political views of Premier Campbell and the BC Liberal Government the one fact that cannot be denied or distorted is that through their management of the BC economy they have significantly INCREASED BC’s credit rating after the massive damage inflicted upon it by the NDP

With a higher Credit Rating (ours is now amongst the highest in Canada) our Government can borrow money at much lower rates. This is what is so troubling about Carole James insane plan to try and sell $ 10 BILLION worth of bonds. The interest that we taxpayers will have to pay on these bonds will be considerably higher than what the government could simply go out and borrow the money for. More so the added money we are paying on additional borrowing debt interest means less money available for health care, education and whatever else. There is simply no sound financial reason to borrow money in the irresponsible manner of selling bonds.

What is more troubling is that for these bonds to have any buyers they have to offer an attractive rate of return for people to bother investing in them. Let’s face it; with all kinds of layoffs and mill closures the so called “average working person” that the NDP religiously purports to represent will not be able to afford these bonds. Meanwhile the more wealthy folk (who typically vote Liberal) will be the one’s primarily being able to afford the bonds and enjoy the profitable rate of return. Meaning that the wealthy will benefit form the bonds while the taxes taken from those who cannot afford the bonds will be the one’s paying for it. Once again this ends up being a slap in the fact to the typical NDP supporter.

To all you NDP supporters out there I hope you ask your local candidate exactly how they can justify this bit of sheer financial stupidity. It is evident that Carole James is looking to turn BC taxpayers into a giant cash factory loan operation. Scary times.
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CarMa
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds ????

Post by CarMa »

Al Czervic wrote:our Government can borrow money at much lower rates.


So why does the Liberal Government insist that is cheaper to privatize our infrastructure (roads, hospitals, etc) and let private companies make profits? Shouldn't we borrow the money "at much lower rates" and own these projects outright?

If these private companies go bankrupt in this economy, the government and taxpayers end up paying the bill.
Al Czervic
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds ????

Post by Al Czervic »

CarMa wrote:
Al Czervic wrote:our Government can borrow money at much lower rates.


So why does the Liberal Government insist that is cheaper to privatize our infrastructure (roads, hospitals, etc) and let private companies make profits? Shouldn't we borrow the money "at much lower rates" and own these projects outright?

If these private companies go bankrupt in this economy, the government and taxpayers end up paying the bill.


And you raise a very valid point; and certainly the argument you put forward is the same one put forward by the NDP when they oppose P3 projects in favor of public projects run by the public sector Unions. This is why the bond borrowing idea from the NDP is so ludicrous as clearly when it comes to supporting the Unions in public projects they understand the concept of cheaper borrowing costs because they utilize that argument

To answer your question why it makes more sense for P3 borrowing private money at higher rates over public projects with lower government rates comes down to total costs. The problem with government projects is that even though the government can borrow money cheaper than the private sector can; unfortunately the government has proven time and time again they are incapable of building a project on time and on budget.

Whatever savings there are on cheaper interest rates that the government borrows these interest rate savings get completely eaten up and then some by massive cost overruns. Look no further than the Fast ferries project or the Vancouver Trade & Convention Center; both projects massively over budget and behind schedule. Compare that to the Okanagan Lake floating bridge. Yes the borrowing costs for the private sector may have been higher but the fact that the bridge was finished ahead of schedule and on budget means you are saving millions upon millions in cost overruns.

Think of it in terms of cars. If GM offers you a new car with zero % interest but no warranty whatsoever and Toyota is offering you a car with 2% interest but a full 10 year warranty; the thousands of dollars in repairs you will save over those 10 years because of the warranty will more than offset the added 2% interest charges. Bottom line is that the government; regardless of who is in power does not have a solid track record on building projects. Unfortunately the public sector Unionists will never be upfront about this fact.
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Glacier
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds ????

Post by Glacier »

Al Czervic wrote: Bottom line is that the government; regardless of who is in power does not have a solid track record on building projects. Unfortunately the public sector Unionists will never be upfront about this fact.

Perhaps, if the unions wouldn't demand such high wages (or if they were not unionized) then the Government could do project cheaper.

Washington State relies much less on private companies to build their roads, and they build much better roads than we do for less money. Just look at the new highways built on both sides of the Pacific Truck crossing in the past year to see the stark contrast.

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The interesting part about BC, is that the NDP was the government that privatized Highways.
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by NAB »

Ya, you really have to wonder where James and the NDP heads are at on this one. It almost looks like they want to still try to ride the declining coat tails of a largely failed "green agenda", similar to Mr. Dion. Panic sets in when normal means to finance it evaporates, and leads to hair brained schemes such as this.

I noted a report this morning....

""The (U.S.) Treasury had to pay a little more than expected Thursday to sell $14 billion in 30-year bonds, the final leg of a record three-part bond sale this week to fund Uncle Sam's soaring cash needs.

At least investors showed up to buy -- as opposed to what happened in Mexico on Wednesday: The government of President Felipe Calderon had to pull a planned sale of 21-year bonds after investors balked.

"There was no demand" for those securities, Gerardo Rodriguez, head of the Finance Ministry's Public Credit Department in Mexico City, told Bloomberg News.""

This was under the headline "WILL MEXICO COLLAPSE ON OBAMA'S WATCH?", and the byline...

"Gun battles between drug gangs in Ciudad Juarez. An army general kidnapped, tortured, and murdered in Ciudad Juarez. And now the collapse of the Mexican bond market."

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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by dudlee »

Sounds kinda like B.R.I.C. shares.That was a real winner, tell your union buddies to supply the money there Carole
"A lie stated over a long enough period of time, becomes the truth" Adolf Hitler. But I say , "A half truth is a lie and there is always two sides to a story, but only one truth"
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by Smurf »

I think the partnership concept has come home to roost. Campbell better look for a new idea. We would be much better going it ourselves and knowing where we are. Now we are paying for Campbells list of bad projects which is growing rapidly. Does anyone else feel they were lied to about the cost of olympic security or was the government trully that dumb.
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by Phoenix Within »

Smurf wrote:Does anyone else feel they were lied to about the cost of olympic security or was the government trully that dumb.

I though I heard on the radio that whoever was in charge of getting the numbers had "guessed" at the actual costs, rather than doing any legitimate research.
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by sanemind »

I often wondered if an NDP thinking person was born dumb or turns that way when he she becomes a leader of the party. :sunshine: :skippingsheep:
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dudlee
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by dudlee »

And that is why they're called "The New Duumies Party". There isn't one business person that votes NDP. just whiner unionist
"A lie stated over a long enough period of time, becomes the truth" Adolf Hitler. But I say , "A half truth is a lie and there is always two sides to a story, but only one truth"
John Pringle
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by John Pringle »

Nice to see the pros are om this site, How about you ask the freeloaders, that are giving everything in this province away, ask them if one anyone department, administration is cheaper now than it was. the Health system, ICBC, ferries, B.C. hydro, ask them what and how many administrators they have. They can lie about a lot of things. and are very good at it. Ask them one question and if you get flack from the crowd, or are lied to, Do some research don't believe the freeloaders that have all the tag lines on this site.
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by butcher99 »

Lets all bash the unions... How about we bash the PPPs that seem to be loved by this government.
They cost money. Tons of money. The corporations who take up the PPPs only do them if they can bid high enough to ensure that they will make tons of money. That has become very obvious with the attempt to build the new bridge in Vancouver. The government could not get anyone to build the bridge under PPP unless these huge profits were built in. So, the government is doing it and surprise, they say they can do it for the same cost.

Every study done on PPPs has shown that they could all be done cheaper if the government went back to doing them themselves.

PPPs are the same pot that privatizing the dept. of highways came from. It has cost tons more for private contractors to do our highways, and we do not get the same good service those orange and white trucks gave us. Not even close.
It is getting close to the end of winter. Lets see how the companies do in clearing the roads from now on. Basically, it will be throw some salt on and hope it goes away. Same every year.

Now to bring this back to the original bond issue, what is wrong with the government lending money to people to start up worthwhile projects? Maybe they could just take the money to do it from the GREEN TAX that the current government put in place.
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by butcher99 »

[quote="sanemind"]I often wondered if an NDP thinking person was born dumb or turns that way when he she becomes a leader of the party. :sunshine: :skippingsheep:[/quote]


These are the ones I just love. People who have nothing to say, have no rebuttal (intelligent or otherwise) and can only resort to insults.


I would rather support the NDP any day over a bunch of people who do not even understand what the term "liberal" is support to mean.
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dudlee
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by dudlee »

butcher99 wrote:
sanemind wrote:I often wondered if an NDP thinking person was born dumb or turns that way when he she becomes a leader of the party. :sunshine: :skippingsheep:



These are the ones I just love. People who have nothing to say, have no rebuttal (intelligent or otherwise) and can only resort to insults.


I would rather support the NDP any day over a bunch of people who do not even understand what the term "liberal" is support to mean.

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And there in lies the problem. Now I've stated that I don't like what the liberals are doing and I get attacked by the libs, I have also stated that I don't like the NDP and their cronies attack.

I feel that BC has not one political party worth voting for.They all lie and when elected they pursue their own hidden agendas, They all need to go.

Gordo is going federal and the olympics and the new Port Mann bridge will be his legacy.The NDP are just incapable of doing a good job.Every time they get in they pay off their backers exactly like the liberals do. We need an alternative , the problem is the two parties are so connected now with their backers that they have no real identity.BC is so over taxed it's ridiculous and Gordo just added another tax and doesn't seem to think it's a bad thing in a recession. Carole doesn't know her butt from a gopher hole , so she will be pushed out like hardcourt was for the old school commies of the party's past.

We loose either way
"A lie stated over a long enough period of time, becomes the truth" Adolf Hitler. But I say , "A half truth is a lie and there is always two sides to a story, but only one truth"
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by Urbane »

The NDP idea is way out to lunch, as usual. And no matter what we do we have the disastrous economy south of the border. Consider these two facts:

According to the Chicago Tribune, the median price for a home sold in the month of December 2008 in Detroit, Michigan was $7500. Yes, that's seventy-five HUNDRED dollars, not even $75,000.

Every man, woman, and child in the United States now owes $6,000 to China. Forget the debts to all the other sources, but just to China alone $6,000 each.

:skyisfalling:

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