More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

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butcher99
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by butcher99 »

[quote="Al Czervic"][quote="butcher99"][quote="Nicklan"][quote="steven lloyd"][quote="Al Czervic"] Do some homework and you will see that $ 1.5 Billion of the NDP surplus was a one time only adjustment as a result of their offloading of the BC Public Sector Pension Plan that was an unfunded 1.5 Billion liability at the time the NDP offloaded it from the government books courtesy of the BC Public Sector Pension Plan Act that the NDP introduced in 1999 in order to unload in 2000 so they could carry a surplus into the 2001 election. Basically what this means is that the NDP sold out every retired government worker just so they could boast a one time surplus at election time. [/quote]

[/quote]




I know 10 years olds that have better reading comprehension skills than you do. Did you even read the comments I made that YOU quoted in YOUR post. I acknowledged the $ 1.5 billion surplus. That fact was never in dispute.

What I pointed out was that the $ 1.5B surplus was a one time only adjust made to BC’s books courtesy of the BC Public Sector Pension Plan Act that sold out BC retired Government workers as the pension fund was a $ 1.5B unfunded liability at the time the NDP offloaded it from Government.

The comments you quoted today from the 2002 Auditor General pertain to the Liberal’s first deficit budget as a result of fulfilling the promised tax cuts they successfully campaigned on. Again this is not news either; this is a well known fact. Do you not understand the difference between debt and a deficit?

I should also add that under the NDP BC’s taxes steadily increased to become amongst the highest in Canada; today BC taxes are now the lowest for low income British Columbians and the second lowest to Alberta for wealthy taxpayers. If having low taxes is so wrong (and it was the BC Liberals and not the NDP who lowered taxes) why is the NDP not promising to raise taxes like they did last time they were elected ?[/quote]

See, that is what I was saying. That is what the "Liberal" party spouted off when they got elected. They then hired a commission that looked into the surplus budget and I posted the findings. Did you read the findings? I did read what you posted and posted a reply to it with a cut and paste from the actual findings of the Liberal commission that was going to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that they cooked the books. Sorry to let you down, but the commission found that the budget surplus was in fact and actual surplus and that they did not cook the books. They also found that the only reason the liberals had such a huge deficit was not because of the "cooking of the books" but 100% due to actions they took.

You really need to go back over the last years budgets as I did of the NDP and you will find that they were mostly balanced or close to balanced budgets. This in a time of recession and job loss in years where immigration to BC fell and the job rate was 10-11 %. Years where housing starts fell off and the forestry and mining sectors were in hard times because of poor market conditions.

You do need to do a little research as I did on the actual facts of the last years the NDP were in power and just see how good it was.

You can go to the BC Government website and read the budgets from year to year, as I did, or you can just continue to spout off misleading information fed to you by the Liberal party of BC.
You see, I did not go to the NDP site to get my facts, but went to the Government site and actually looked up what occurred.

It is also very easy to tell when someone is over their head in a discussion. They start to resort to insults. 10 year olds with better reading comprehension? No, I did read what you posted then I went looking to see what the facts actually were. I posted them, and you ignored them. Your reply instead of coming back with reasoned researched response is to start insulting me.

As to "Liberal’s first deficit budget as a result of fulfilling the promised tax cuts they successfully campaigned on" I remember those quite well. We did not get the tax cuts they campaigned on. What we got was an extension of what they campaigned on to all tax brackets. They campaigned on tax cuts for persons below a certain income then when they came in they moved the tax cuts to include everyone and that is what caused the record deficit they produced.

As to your snipe about the difference between debt and budget deficits, yes, I do know the difference and I also know that in the years the Liberals have been in power they have added much more to the BC debt than the NDP did in the years they were in power.

You just have to do a little search on the internet and you will find all this information for yourself.

Since you have resorted to insults it is obvious you have nothing concrete to say. Therefore, I will no longer reply to this thread. Save your time typing
Nicklan
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by Nicklan »

butcher99 wrote:
Al Czervic wrote:
butcher99 wrote:
Nicklan wrote:
steven lloyd wrote:
Al Czervic wrote: Do some homework and you will see that $ 1.5 Billion of the NDP surplus was a one time only adjustment as a result of their offloading of the BC Public Sector Pension Plan that was an unfunded 1.5 Billion liability at the time the NDP offloaded it from the government books courtesy of the BC Public Sector Pension Plan Act that the NDP introduced in 1999 in order to unload in 2000 so they could carry a surplus into the 2001 election. Basically what this means is that the NDP sold out every retired government worker just so they could boast a one time surplus at election time.







I know 10 years olds that have better reading comprehension skills than you do. Did you even read the comments I made that YOU quoted in YOUR post. I acknowledged the $ 1.5 billion surplus. That fact was never in dispute.

What I pointed out was that the $ 1.5B surplus was a one time only adjust made to BC’s books courtesy of the BC Public Sector Pension Plan Act that sold out BC retired Government workers as the pension fund was a $ 1.5B unfunded liability at the time the NDP offloaded it from Government.

The comments you quoted today from the 2002 Auditor General pertain to the Liberal’s first deficit budget as a result of fulfilling the promised tax cuts they successfully campaigned on. Again this is not news either; this is a well known fact. Do you not understand the difference between debt and a deficit?

I should also add that under the NDP BC’s taxes steadily increased to become amongst the highest in Canada; today BC taxes are now the lowest for low income British Columbians and the second lowest to Alberta for wealthy taxpayers. If having low taxes is so wrong (and it was the BC Liberals and not the NDP who lowered taxes) why is the NDP not promising to raise taxes like they did last time they were elected ?


See, that is what I was saying. That is what the "Liberal" party spouted off when they got elected. They then hired a commission that looked into the surplus budget and I posted the findings. Did you read the findings? I did read what you posted and posted a reply to it with a cut and paste from the actual findings of the Liberal commission that was going to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that they cooked the books. Sorry to let you down, but the commission found that the budget surplus was in fact and actual surplus and that they did not cook the books. They also found that the only reason the liberals had such a huge deficit was not because of the "cooking of the books" but 100% due to actions they took.

You really need to go back over the last years budgets as I did of the NDP and you will find that they were mostly balanced or close to balanced budgets. This in a time of recession and job loss in years where immigration to BC fell and the job rate was 10-11 %. Years where housing starts fell off and the forestry and mining sectors were in hard times because of poor market conditions.

You do need to do a little research as I did on the actual facts of the last years the NDP were in power and just see how good it was.

You can go to the BC Government website and read the budgets from year to year, as I did, or you can just continue to spout off misleading information fed to you by the Liberal party of BC.
You see, I did not go to the NDP site to get my facts, but went to the Government site and actually looked up what occurred.

It is also very easy to tell when someone is over their head in a discussion. They start to resort to insults. 10 year olds with better reading comprehension? No, I did read what you posted then I went looking to see what the facts actually were. I posted them, and you ignored them. Your reply instead of coming back with reasoned researched response is to start insulting me.

As to "Liberal’s first deficit budget as a result of fulfilling the promised tax cuts they successfully campaigned on" I remember those quite well. We did not get the tax cuts they campaigned on. What we got was an extension of what they campaigned on to all tax brackets. They campaigned on tax cuts for persons below a certain income then when they came in they moved the tax cuts to include everyone and that is what caused the record deficit they produced.

As to your snipe about the difference between debt and budget deficits, yes, I do know the difference and I also know that in the years the Liberals have been in power they have added much more to the BC debt than the NDP did in the years they were in power.

You just have to do a little search on the internet and you will find all this information for yourself.

Since you have resorted to insults it is obvious you have nothing concrete to say. Therefore, I will no longer reply to this thread. Save your time typing


And what about the Billions the Gordo threw away at BC ferries do they not count, for those billions along with the 3 billion on the Liberal 2010 party would have funded the hospitals and medical system no problem. Not to mention the money being paid out for untendered contracts to companies from outside Canada for road construction and bridges all going right out of BC. Does that not count that Gordo will not give this work to BC companies and as with me I am shore many are not even allowd to BID ! Billions more right out of the BC economy WHY $$$$$
Al Czervic
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by Al Czervic »

butcher99 wrote:
As to your snipe about the difference between debt and budget deficits, yes, I do know the difference and I also know that in the years the Liberals have been in power they have added much more to the BC debt than the NDP did in the years they were in power.


This is absolutely categorically false. No government in the history of BC has added more debt to BC than the NDP did. The NDP added $ 17 BILLION in debt in just two terms!. You show me anywhere where the BC Liberals or any government in the history of this Province have added anywhere near that kind of debt.

When you make such foolish and blatantly inaccurate and incorrect statements you fully illustrate your complete lack of credibility or understanding on BC’s debt load. I am pleased to hear you will not be responding and trying to pass along anymore of your NDP gibberish as being factual.
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Al Czervic
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by Al Czervic »

Nicklan wrote: Does that not count that Gordo will not give this work to BC companies and as with me I am shore many are not even allowd to BID ! Billions more right out of the BC economy WHY $$$$$



What planet are you on? There is a website called BC Bid http://www.bcbid.gov.bc.ca/open.dll/welcome
and any BC registered company can bid on the tenders that are posted at the website. Post after post of complete NDP untrue nonsense. With supporters like you and Butcher it is small wonder why the NDP always runs this Province into the ground.
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Urbane
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by Urbane »

How soon some people forget. Just before the NDP was defeated in 2001, with the Liberals winning 77 out of 79 seats, a friend of mine suggested that the NDP should always be in opposition, that they simply weren't very good at actually running things. And he was an NDP supporter! Debt and lots of it got us into a big hole.
Nicklan
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by Nicklan »

Al Czervic wrote:
Nicklan wrote: Does that not count that Gordo will not give this work to BC companies and as with me I am shore many are not even allowd to BID ! Billions more right out of the BC economy WHY $$$$$



What planet are you on? There is a website called BC Bid http://www.bcbid.gov.bc.ca/open.dll/welcome
and any BC registered company can bid on the tenders that are posted at the website. Post after post of complete NDP untrue nonsense. With supporters like you and Butcher it is small wonder why the NDP always runs this Province into the ground.


Funny how one company is building all the bridges and doing all the work on 99 and the number one
That is a good link if you want to bid on used equipment the Liberal gang does not want that is about it
Nicklan
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by Nicklan »

Urbane wrote:How soon some people forget. Just before the NDP was defeated in 2001, with the Liberals winning 77 out of 79 seats, a friend of mine suggested that the NDP should always be in opposition, that they simply weren't very good at actually running things. And he was an NDP supporter! Debt and lots of it got us into a big hole.


I would like to remind you that Gordo claimed that the NDP were at fault for the Fast cats, the forest industry and mining industry, which all turned out to be complete Lies all of them.

A vote for Gordo and his Lieing Liberal Gangsters is a vote to be Robbed and Lied to More !
Al Czervic
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by Al Czervic »

Al Czervic wrote:
butcher99 wrote:
As to your snipe about the difference between debt and budget deficits, yes, I do know the difference and I also know that in the years the Liberals have been in power they have added much more to the BC debt than the NDP did in the years they were in power.


This is absolutely categorically false. No government in the history of BC has added more debt to BC than the NDP did. The NDP added $ 17 BILLION in debt in just two terms!. You show me anywhere where the BC Liberals or any government in the history of this Province have added anywhere near that kind of debt.

When you make such foolish and blatantly inaccurate and incorrect statements you fully illustrate your complete lack of credibility or understanding on BC’s debt load. I am pleased to hear you will not be responding and trying to pass along anymore of your NDP gibberish as being factual.


While we are on this topic of BC debt here is a short historical article for you to read...

Recent NDP nearly doubled debt

Returned to government under Bill Bennett, W.A.C.'s son, Social Credit politicians blasted the NDP for fiscal incompetence and promised strict economy. Yet B.C.'s debt roared past the $10 billion mark in 1982, and exceeded $17 billion when Bill Bennett's successor, Bill Vander Zalm, resigned his office in disgrace in 1991.

Under the NDP governments of the 1990s, led first by Mike Harcourt, later by Glen Clark and lastly by Ujjal Dosanjh, British Columbia's debt nearly doubled to more than $33 billion.

From 'zero' in 1871, British Columbia's debt today exceeds $37.3 billion. Since the arrival of party politics in B.C. a century ago, not a single government -- Conservative, Liberal, Social Credit, or NDP -- has left office with the provincial debt lower than when it first took power.

This historic fact does little to discourage B.C. politicians from vowing to be fiscally prudent, and even making vague promises to 'reduce the debt.' Recently, NDP leader Carole James attended a meeting with the Coalition of B.C. Businesses, and in response to a question concerning debt-reduction she replied: "Every year there will be a balanced budget."



So as you can see the Socreds added over $ 7 Billion in debt taking the debt balance form $ 10 Billion to $ 17 Billion when they were ousted from power.

As you can see when the NDP took over the debt was at $ 17 Billion and they basically doubled the debt taking it up to just under $ 34 Billion.

The 2008/2009 BC Debt Forecast is sitting at $ 38 Billion. Meaning two terms of BC Liberals have added roughly $ 4 Billion in debt compared to $ 17 BILLION in debt added by two terms of the NDP. The debt levels are not even in the same league; precisely as I have saying all along. Your claims about debt are so off the mark it would be laughable were it not so pathetic. Once again more lies from the NDP and like minded supporters.
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Nicklan
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by Nicklan »

Al Czervic wrote:
Al Czervic wrote:
butcher99 wrote:
As to your snipe about the difference between debt and budget deficits, yes, I do know the difference and I also know that in the years the Liberals have been in power they have added much more to the BC debt than the NDP did in the years they were in power.


This is absolutely categorically false. No government in the history of BC has added more debt to BC than the NDP did. The NDP added $ 17 BILLION in debt in just two terms!. You show me anywhere where the BC Liberals or any government in the history of this Province have added anywhere near that kind of debt.

When you make such foolish and blatantly inaccurate and incorrect statements you fully illustrate your complete lack of credibility or understanding on BC’s debt load. I am pleased to hear you will not be responding and trying to pass along anymore of your NDP gibberish as being factual.


While we are on this topic of BC debt here is a short historical article for you to read...

Recent NDP nearly doubled debt

Returned to government under Bill Bennett, W.A.C.'s son, Social Credit politicians blasted the NDP for fiscal incompetence and promised strict economy. Yet B.C.'s debt roared past the $10 billion mark in 1982, and exceeded $17 billion when Bill Bennett's successor, Bill Vander Zalm, resigned his office in disgrace in 1991.

Under the NDP governments of the 1990s, led first by Mike Harcourt, later by Glen Clark and lastly by Ujjal Dosanjh, British Columbia's debt nearly doubled to more than $33 billion.

From 'zero' in 1871, British Columbia's debt today exceeds $37.3 billion. Since the arrival of party politics in B.C. a century ago, not a single government -- Conservative, Liberal, Social Credit, or NDP -- has left office with the provincial debt lower than when it first took power.

This historic fact does little to discourage B.C. politicians from vowing to be fiscally prudent, and even making vague promises to 'reduce the debt.' Recently, NDP leader Carole James attended a meeting with the Coalition of B.C. Businesses, and in response to a question concerning debt-reduction she replied: "Every year there will be a balanced budget."



So as you can see the Socreds added over $ 7 Billion in debt taking the debt balance form $ 10 Billion to $ 17 Billion when they were ousted from power.

As you can see when the NDP took over the debt was at $ 17 Billion and they basically doubled the debt taking it up to just under $ 34 Billion.

The 2008/2009 BC Debt Forecast is sitting at $ 38 Billion. Meaning two terms of BC Liberals have added roughly $ 4 Billion in debt compared to $ 17 BILLION in debt added by two terms of the NDP. The debt levels are not even in the same league; precisely as I have saying all along. Your claims about debt are so off the mark it would be laughable were it not so pathetic. Once again more lies from the NDP and like minded supporters.

All I know is if you count the 6 billion total cost for the 2010 game pluse the other billion Gordo and his gangster wasted
That is about 10 billion real fast and counting, what about the 9 billion mising from the BC gas company sale
the list goes on and on and on
Al Czervic
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by Al Czervic »

Nicklan wrote:All I know is if you count the 6 billion total cost for the 2010 game pluse the other billion Gordo and his gangster wasted


Yet again; WRONG. You do understand that the federal Government and Private companies through sponsorships are also paying a huge share of this right ? Or do you just keep making it up as you go along?

By the way; I assume you know that the NDP started the Olympic games bid in the first place. How were they going to pay for it ? Through NDP junk bonds ? Nothing you post here is ever accurate or even close to being accurate. Do you even care about your own credibility ?
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butcher99
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by butcher99 »

[quote="Al Czervic"][quote="Nicklan"]
All I know is if you count the 6 billion total cost for the 2010 game pluse the other billion Gordo and his gangster wasted [/quote]

Yet again; WRONG. You do understand that the federal Government and Private companies through sponsorships are also paying a huge share of this right ? Or do you just keep making it up as you go along?

By the way; I assume you know that the NDP started the Olympic games bid in the first place. How were they going to pay for it ? Through NDP junk bonds ? Nothing you post here is ever accurate or even close to being accurate. Do you even care about your own credibility ?[/quote]


Dont bother answering his drivel. As you can see he has nothing concrete to offer but insults. He does not know his budget from his debt. He compares a time of recession to a time of expansion. He thinks the NDP did nothing but raise taxes and when it is pointed out that that is not true resorts to insults instead of a reasoned and thoughtful reply.

When his own partys report was quoted back to him showing he was wrong he insults me and says I don't know what I am talking about when in fact it was his own party that commissioned the report so I guess they don't know what they are talking about..

All in all... just don't bother.
Nicklan
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by Nicklan »

Al Czervic wrote:
Nicklan wrote:All I know is if you count the 6 billion total cost for the 2010 game pluse the other billion Gordo and his gangster wasted


Yet again; WRONG. You do understand that the federal Government and Private companies through sponsorships are also paying a huge share of this right ? Or do you just keep making it up as you go along?

By the way; I assume you know that the NDP started the Olympic games bid in the first place. How were they going to pay for it ? Through NDP junk bonds ? Nothing you post here is ever accurate or even close to being accurate. Do you even care about your own credibility ?


I understand that Gordo stated it would cost 1 billion not 6 billion as it actully is and running, he just added another 500 million to the village that was to be Public housing when he started, but some how was sold for condo's by a private developer who actully owns the village.
Al Czervic
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by Al Czervic »

butcher99 wrote:
Al Czervic wrote:
Nicklan wrote:All I know is if you count the 6 billion total cost for the 2010 game pluse the other billion Gordo and his gangster wasted


Yet again; WRONG. You do understand that the federal Government and Private companies through sponsorships are also paying a huge share of this right ? Or do you just keep making it up as you go along?

By the way; I assume you know that the NDP started the Olympic games bid in the first place. How were they going to pay for it ? Through NDP junk bonds ? Nothing you post here is ever accurate or even close to being accurate. Do you even care about your own credibility ?



Dont bother answering his drivel. As you can see he has nothing concrete to offer but insults. He does not know his budget from his debt. He compares a time of recession to a time of expansion. He thinks the NDP did nothing but raise taxes and when it is pointed out that that is not true resorts to insults instead of a reasoned and thoughtful reply.

When his own partys report was quoted back to him showing he was wrong he insults me and says I don't know what I am talking about when in fact it was his own party that commissioned the report so I guess they don't know what they are talking about..

All in all... just don't bother.


Nothing concrete ? I offered factual information with real numbers about BC’s debt. Show me where my debt numbers are wrong. Show me where any other party in the history of BC added more debt then your friends in the NDP. You cannot. Taxes ? Visit the Revenue Canada website to see what they were under the NDP to what they were today; once again lower under the Liberals.

The fact is every so called fact you have provided has been inaccurate and wrong and you have zero credibility. Much like your friends in the NDP. Is there nothing truthful you can provide to support the NDP ? Or must it always be anti-Liberal lies.
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Nicklan
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by Nicklan »

Al Czervic wrote:
butcher99 wrote:
Al Czervic wrote:
Nicklan wrote:All I know is if you count the 6 billion total cost for the 2010 game pluse the other billion Gordo and his gangster wasted


Yet again; WRONG. You do understand that the federal Government and Private companies through sponsorships are also paying a huge share of this right ? Or do you just keep making it up as you go along?

By the way; I assume you know that the NDP started the Olympic games bid in the first place. How were they going to pay for it ? Through NDP junk bonds ? Nothing you post here is ever accurate or even close to being accurate. Do you even care about your own credibility ?



Dont bother answering his drivel. As you can see he has nothing concrete to offer but insults. He does not know his budget from his debt. He compares a time of recession to a time of expansion. He thinks the NDP did nothing but raise taxes and when it is pointed out that that is not true resorts to insults instead of a reasoned and thoughtful reply.

When his own partys report was quoted back to him showing he was wrong he insults me and says I don't know what I am talking about when in fact it was his own party that commissioned the report so I guess they don't know what they are talking about..

All in all... just don't bother.


Nothing concrete ? I offered factual information with real numbers about BC’s debt. Show me where my debt numbers are wrong. Show me where any other party in the history of BC added more debt then your friends in the NDP. You cannot. Taxes ? Visit the Revenue Canada website to see what they were under the NDP to what they were today; once again lower under the Liberals.

The fact is every so called fact you have provided has been inaccurate and wrong and you have zero credibility. Much like your friends in the NDP. Is there nothing truthful you can provide to support the NDP ? Or must it always be anti-Liberal lies.


Just because you Lieing Liberals fear the truth doesn't mean that everyone else does.
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Urbane
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Re: More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

Post by Urbane »

Nicklan wrote:Just because you Lieing Liberals fear the truth doesn't mean that everyone else does.

Hmm . . . remember the Fudge-it Budget? Remember Harcourt taking the fall for the Bingo-gate? Remember the RCMP investigation of Glen Clark and his subsequent resignation? One party does not have a monopoly on lying or acting like scoundrels.

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