Sick of NDP attack ads

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Al Czervic
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Re: NDP/Private Sector Olympic Bid?

Post by Al Czervic »

usquebaugh wrote:

Do you really think people will care if the NDP government provided the original Bid Corporation with $50,000, when the Liberals are now going to spend billions? Also, if the Liberals thought it was going to be so expensive, why didn't they campaign in 2000 to stop the Olympic bid and put the money into education, the legal system, and health care instead? Oh right. They had their corporate sponsors to think of. Do you think the Liberals will want to go after the NDP at the expense of giving the Olympics any bad press?


I am not suggesting that people will or will not care; I am only stating the truth. It was the NDP who started the bid for the 2010 Games. Even you have now acknowledged that fact.

One would assume that the NDP understood at the time that hosting the 2010 Olympics could not be done without costs attached. You are not suggesting the NDP thought this could be done for free are you?

The Liberals have always been in full support of the 2010 games. Only the NDP have flip flopped from initially starting the bid in the first place when in support to now bashing the games whenever the opportunity arises.

I find it interesting that as an NDP supporter you were not even aware of the fact that the NDP created the bids for the games in the first place until this thread.
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Re: NDP/Private Sector Olympic Bid?

Post by steven lloyd »

Al Czervic wrote: One would assume that the NDP understood at the time that hosting the 2010 Olympics could not be done without costs attached. You are not suggesting the NDP thought this could be done for free are you?


I wouldn't suggest that. Of course, things were much better when the NDP first started promoting the idea of hosting an Olympics. At that time there were far more many people participating in the BC economy, and in real terms there were less people on welfare. This statistic has been skewed by this government arbitrarily by turfing people to the streets (ie. not on welfare anymore).

I highly doubt the NDP thought the Olympics could be put on for free, however, it has been the Liberals who have gotten the price tag up to 8 billion. And heh – a billion dollars here and a billion dollars there and pretty soon we’re talking real money.

Let’s just add some sky train developments, cost-overrun convention centres and a super bridge of pure madness for nothing but self-serving ideological ego (doesn't make any other sense). In terms of boondoggles, those fast ferries are starting to look like canoes that we paid too much for.
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Re: Sick of NDP attack ads

Post by Al Czervic »

But therein lies the problem. The NDP never even admit to the fact that it was them who first started the bid for the Olympics in the first place. Nor do the NDP tell us why they thought it was a good idea back in 1998 and not today. Furthermore the NDP do not tell us; what if anything they would have done differently abut the Olympics.

It’s not unlike IPP Run of the river projects. The NDP do not admit to the fact that they actually approved more than the BC Liberals have. Nor do the NDP tell us why IPP Run of the River projects were somehow a good thing they supported when in power but not now. I challenge anyone to even provide an admission from Carole James of the fact that the NDP created more private run of the rive projects than the BC Liberals have.

There is no explanation for these double standards. It’s not unlike more Private Clinics being created under the NDP and yet the NDP pretend these types of things never happened. I just don’t get it. Yet many of the loons who vote for the NDP are clueless that the NDP created much more of this stuff than the BC Liberals have.

One prominent NDP supporter on this site prior to today didn’t even realize the NDP had started the Olympic bid in the first place….
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Re: Sick of NDP attack ads

Post by steven lloyd »

I can’t make any excuses for the current NDP government, nor do I have a desire to even try. Under their lack of leadership and vision as exhibited currently, trying to defend or support them seems ridiculous. In fact, if the Liberal party would unceremoniously dump Gordon Campbell, Colin Hansin, George Abbott,, Rich Coleman and a few others, and publicly commit (humbly – maybe even ashamedly) to acknowledging their mistakes in dismantling important health and social infrastructure and their intent to redress that, I could easily become one of their biggest supporters. I already support many of their economic development policies (eg, offshore oil and gas exploration). However, I don’t believe so many people had to unnecessarily suffer (and even die) because of their blindness to ideology, and I believe that blindness is causing them to still be reckless with their political agenda.

It’s time for me to crash, but I can tell you that over the last five years working within the criminal justice system we see first hand what is really brewing and it is not looking to be pretty. Currently, we are all collectively holding our breaths as Campbell contemplates how he is going to implement further cuts in service to Crown and Legal Aid and considering the effects of that short-sighted and reckless move. Earlier I had made these statements tongue in cheek, but tomorrow I think I may really visit the hardware store to price the cost of razor wire fences. It’s going to get real ugly.
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Re: Sick of NDP attack ads

Post by usquebaugh »

Al Czervic wrote:I find it interesting that as an NDP supporter you were not even aware of the fact that the NDP created the bids for the games in the first place until this thread.


Probably because I was a teenager when that first took place, and I had yet to start paying as close attention to provincial politics as I have since I started voting!
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Re: NDP/Private Sector Olympic Bid?

Post by usquebaugh »

steven lloyd wrote:
Al Czervic wrote: One would assume that the NDP understood at the time that hosting the 2010 Olympics could not be done without costs attached. You are not suggesting the NDP thought this could be done for free are you?


I wouldn't suggest that. Of course, things were much better when the NDP first started promoting the idea of hosting an Olympics. At that time there were far more many people participating in the BC economy, and in real terms there were less people on welfare. This statistic has been skewed by this government arbitrarily by turfing people to the streets (ie. not on welfare anymore).

I highly doubt the NDP thought the Olympics could be put on for free, however, it has been the Liberals who have gotten the price tag up to 8 billion. And heh – a billion dollars here and a billion dollars there and pretty soon we’re talking real money.

Let’s just add some sky train developments, cost-overrun convention centres and a super bridge of pure madness for nothing but self-serving ideological ego (doesn't make any other sense). In terms of boondoggles, those fast ferries are starting to look like canoes that we paid too much for.


Thank you, steven. That is my problem with the Olympics right there, and I'm sure it's the price tag that has the NDP irked, since that money is being spent at the cost of British Columbians' health care, education, forestry industry, etc. It seems that the right (meaning the BC Liberals) seem to think they are fiscally conservative (and, hey, they are when it comes to funding much needed services, like hospitals and LTC facilities!), but then they go ahead and blow billions on a two week party, that most of their friends are invited to.

I happen to think that, had the NDP been in power for the last 8+ years, they would have managed the funds much better than the Liberals have. If you're going to say that the NDP's management of the Olympics would have been worse, go right ahead, but do you think that the $8 billion dollars being spent shows good management?
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Al Czervic
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Re: NDP/Private Sector Olympic Bid?

Post by Al Czervic »

usquebaugh wrote:
steven lloyd wrote:
Al Czervic wrote: One would assume that the NDP understood at the time that hosting the 2010 Olympics could not be done without costs attached. You are not suggesting the NDP thought this could be done for free are you?


I wouldn't suggest that. Of course, things were much better when the NDP first started promoting the idea of hosting an Olympics. At that time there were far more many people participating in the BC economy, and in real terms there were less people on welfare. This statistic has been skewed by this government arbitrarily by turfing people to the streets (ie. not on welfare anymore).

I highly doubt the NDP thought the Olympics could be put on for free, however, it has been the Liberals who have gotten the price tag up to 8 billion. And heh – a billion dollars here and a billion dollars there and pretty soon we’re talking real money.

Let’s just add some sky train developments, cost-overrun convention centres and a super bridge of pure madness for nothing but self-serving ideological ego (doesn't make any other sense). In terms of boondoggles, those fast ferries are starting to look like canoes that we paid too much for.


Thank you, steven. That is my problem with the Olympics right there, and I'm sure it's the price tag that has the NDP irked, since that money is being spent at the cost of British Columbians' health care, education, forestry industry, etc. It seems that the right (meaning the BC Liberals) seem to think they are fiscally conservative (and, hey, they are when it comes to funding much needed services, like hospitals and LTC facilities!), but then they go ahead and blow billions on a two week party, that most of their friends are invited to.

I happen to think that, had the NDP been in power for the last 8+ years, they would have managed the funds much better than the Liberals have. If you're going to say that the NDP's management of the Olympics would have been worse, go right ahead, but do you think that the $8 billion dollars being spent shows good management?


I think people have to be careful throwing around big numbers. Many of the “costs” being lumped in to accommodate the hosting of the Olympic Games have other public benefits. For example the Sea-To-Sky hwy had to be upgraded no different than our Okanagan Lake Bridge had to be replaced. I am surprised some of the anti-Olympic crowd has not suggested the Okanagan Lake Bridge should be added onto the Olympic Games costs as well.

Also; people seem to forget (or are simply naïve) that the lions share of the costs to host the games are not being paid by BC Taxpayers at all they are being paid by the Federal Government and corporate sponsorship. Let’s not forget Quebec got $ 400 Million just to hold a birthday party for the Province. BC was long overdue for some federal contributions.

Final point is that the economic impact of the games have yet to be determined. I am always in bewilderment how every time the NDP look to the future there is always a negative view that everything will turn out negatively. Hence why many suggest they are the Negative Destructive Pessimistic party.

I realize you are young Usquebaugh but the NDP created all of the same negative hysteria when BC was hosting Expo 86 as well. Expo 86 proved the NDP wrong and became one of the most successful events this Province has ever come across. I have no doubt that the reason why the NDP first launched the Olympic bid in the first place was likely due to the immense success of Expo 86.
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Re: NDP/Private Sector Olympic Bid?

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Last edited by logicalview on Apr 18th, 2009, 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NDP/Private Sector Olympic Bid?

Post by usquebaugh »

Al Czervic wrote:I think people have to be careful throwing around big numbers. Many of the “costs” being lumped in to accommodate the hosting of the Olympic Games have other public benefits. For example the Sea-To-Sky hwy had to be upgraded no different than our Okanagan Lake Bridge had to be replaced. I am surprised some of the anti-Olympic crowd has not suggested the Okanagan Lake Bridge should be added onto the Olympic Games costs as well.

Also; people seem to forget (or are simply naïve) that the lions share of the costs to host the games are not being paid by BC Taxpayers at all they are being paid by the Federal Government and corporate sponsorship. Let’s not forget Quebec got $ 400 Million just to hold a birthday party for the Province. BC was long overdue for some federal contributions.

Final point is that the economic impact of the games have yet to be determined. I am always in bewilderment how every time the NDP look to the future there is always a negative view that everything will turn out negatively. Hence why many suggest they are the Negative Destructive Pessimistic party.

I realize you are young Usquebaugh but the NDP created all of the same negative hysteria when BC was hosting Expo 86 as well. Expo 86 proved the NDP wrong and became one of the most successful events this Province has ever come across. I have no doubt that the reason why the NDP first launched the Olympic bid in the first place was likely due to the immense success of Expo 86.


:dyinglaughing: I wasn't even in school during Expo 86! Unlike Expo 86, however, it's not possible to double the number of people who will come to watch the Olympics, since the venues will not hold twice as many people as they are intended to hold (and still be within their code limits!).

Yes, I'm aware that we've been given federal funds (and also that the Liberals are campaigning and using the projects that federal money has financed to show what the BC Liberals have done :127: ), and that the bridge had to be replaced, but I think that they could have done a much better job to ensure that the new bridge would be able to withstand the growing Okanagan population (I still think it should have been 6 lanes at minimum!).

I think because the affect on services is already being felt, and that's why people aren't happy with the provincial government's expenditures on the Olympics. What's bewildering to me is that the human cost doesn't seem to phase certain supporters of Liberal policies.
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Re: Sick of NDP attack ads

Post by logicalview »

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Liberal Response?

Post by usquebaugh »

Al, what did the Liberals say when you told them about the NDP beginning the Olympic bid in 1998?
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Al Czervic
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Re: NDP/Private Sector Olympic Bid?

Post by Al Czervic »

usquebaugh wrote:
Al Czervic wrote:I think people have to be careful throwing around big numbers. Many of the “costs” being lumped in to accommodate the hosting of the Olympic Games have other public benefits. For example the Sea-To-Sky hwy had to be upgraded no different than our Okanagan Lake Bridge had to be replaced. I am surprised some of the anti-Olympic crowd has not suggested the Okanagan Lake Bridge should be added onto the Olympic Games costs as well.

Also; people seem to forget (or are simply naïve) that the lions share of the costs to host the games are not being paid by BC Taxpayers at all they are being paid by the Federal Government and corporate sponsorship. Let’s not forget Quebec got $ 400 Million just to hold a birthday party for the Province. BC was long overdue for some federal contributions.

Final point is that the economic impact of the games have yet to be determined. I am always in bewilderment how every time the NDP look to the future there is always a negative view that everything will turn out negatively. Hence why many suggest they are the Negative Destructive Pessimistic party.

I realize you are young Usquebaugh but the NDP created all of the same negative hysteria when BC was hosting Expo 86 as well. Expo 86 proved the NDP wrong and became one of the most successful events this Province has ever come across. I have no doubt that the reason why the NDP first launched the Olympic bid in the first place was likely due to the immense success of Expo 86.


:dyinglaughing: I wasn't even in school during Expo 86! Unlike Expo 86, however, it's not possible to double the number of people who will come to watch the Olympics, since the venues will not hold twice as many people as they are intended to hold (and still be within their code limits!).

Yes, I'm aware that we've been given federal funds (and also that the Liberals are campaigning and using the projects that federal money has financed to show what the BC Liberals have done :127: ), and that the bridge had to be replaced, but I think that they could have done a much better job to ensure that the new bridge would be able to withstand the growing Okanagan population (I still think it should have been 6 lanes at minimum!).

I think because the affect on services is already being felt, and that's why people aren't happy with the provincial government's expenditures on the Olympics. What's bewildering to me is that the human cost doesn't seem to phase certain supporters of Liberal policies.


How does one calculate the “human costs” ? and by what measure ? Stat’s and studies can be used to prove just about anything. Personally I think we need to learn from history. Expo 86 was a huge economic boom for BC and had this province firing along on all cylinders until the NDP came along.

Why do you think the NDP launched the bid for the Olympics in the first place? Obviously because the NDP thought it would be a good thing for BC; much as they thought the Fast Ferries would be a good thing for BC as well.

With the Fast Ferries we know they did not work; (unless of course you talk to Niclan) in the case of the Olympics the economic impact has yet to be determined; however the NDP as always has a negative crystal ball. Why is that? Why be negative about everything ? Why condemn something instead of doing everything you can to try and support it; because if successful it will be a huge boon for BC? I just do not understand why the NDP has such a negative crystal ball about everything.

You have said the NDP would have done a better job hosting the Olympics. Can you show me anywhere where Carole James has said what she would have done differently? Would she have made the convention center a P3 instead of a cost overrun “public” project like Campbell did? When the NDP did the Island Hwy project they made it Union only labour and non Union construction companies were not even allowed to bid on the project. This drove up costs to the extent that the NDP had to increase the total budget for the project. Would Carole James have taken the same Union only approach to the Sea-To-Sky Hwy ? Or for any of the venues ? She does not say. Thus I question how you can say the NDP would have done any of this for less money.

It is easy to criticize and condemn but Carole James offers no insight into what; if anything the NDP would have done differently. I see no leadership in that approach. If you have a better way of doing something that will lower the costs than by all means tell us taxpayers what it is. But the NDP consistently fail to do that.
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Re: Sick of NDP attack ads

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usquebaugh wrote:I happen to think that, had the NDP been in power for the last 8+ years, they would have managed the funds much better than the Liberals have.


Totally oblivious (or a standard NDP pretend your a dummy tactic) to the last time they held office and brought this province to its knees.

Since you graduated in the class of 2000, you would have been 1 year out of high school and a voter in the 2001 election.


Vancouver mayor Gordon Campbell. The Liberals won over 57% of the popular vote, and all but two of the 79 seats in the provincial legislature--the most lopsided result in the province's history.

The NDP, on the other hand, lost almost half of the share of the popular vote that it had won in the 1996 election, while its seat count fell from 39 seats to only two--those of Education Minister Joy MacPhail and Community Development Minister Jenny Kwan.


This annihilation of the NDP was a direct result of them sucking the breath out of the economy and then presenting the "Fudget Budget".

So when you say things like ....

usquebaugh wrote:I happen to think that, had the NDP been in power for the last 8+ years, they would have managed the funds much better than the Liberals have.


Looks like you and your NDP brethren are both numerically challenged.

From Wiki..
Fudge-It Budget
Another scandal that beset the NDP government occurred in the immediate aftermath of the 1996 election when it was revealed that provincial budget figures had been manipulated to show a surplus when in fact a deficit had been projected (the "Fudge-It Budget" scandal)
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Re: Sick of NDP attack ads

Post by LeashCops »

The Lib-platform has 6 points. All of which reveal bad governance.

1 Strong leadership and stable government
Party is led by a convicted Drunk Driver; his Solicitor General had to resign because of alleged improper real estate deals; BC Rail case is going nowhere because of Cabinet secrecy. BC police act with absolute impunity.

2 Living within our means
We are a small part of North America, yet the province in hosting an Olympic Games that will cost $900,000,000 in security costs alone, for an 18 day event. That is largesse of the worst kind.

3 Lowering costs on our economy
Poor stewardship has put policing, health, transportation, and other costs through the roof.

4 Improving and protecting vital public services
The Housing Minister is using the Corrections database to exclude people from public housing. The BC Integrated Gang Task Force has delivered negative productivity for the $80,000,000 wasted on yet another 9 t0 5 cop bureaucracy. Police service is treated as a privilege. Parties to the Queen of the North' Negligent Homicide case had to accept peanuts, because Campbell imposes crippling court costs on civil litigants. Court Services allowed a paltry 225 Supreme Court trials last year, as government parties continue to win 100% of Motion hearings.

5 Investing in jobs and infrastructure
BC's unemployment increase has led Canada from January. The Libs have no plan of attack against the recession.

6 Building on our strategic advantages
Most major construction projects in downtown Vancouver and elsewhere are shutdown, even after Premier Campbell spoke of private-public partnerships. NDP governments don't let resources rust away.
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Re: Sick of NDP attack ads

Post by ventured »

LeashCops wrote:Yah, Campbell is a convicted criminal. After he leaves office his status as a US felon, will keep him out of the US.

People need to see his mug-shot at every opportunity.

However, a better picture to use would be the one of him smiling as he is being booked. Funny? If that drunk had veered across the line and into traffic he could have killed people.

Gordon Campbell is a low-life con-man who is unfit for public service because he is incapable of public service. He is the enemy of the 99% of the people of BC who get nothing from his revolting collection of dubious lawyers, ex-cops and real estate dupists who form his dirty government. If you vote Lib, you vote for liars and thieves.


He is not a felon. His conviction is a Misdemeanor.

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